Question About Signalling On Hrr (or German Routes In General)

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by arek#2842, Oct 19, 2022.

  1. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys,

    Let me describe the signalling case I've encountered few days ago while driving DB 101 IC 2218 service on HRR.

    I'm driving at about 150 km/h speed and right after Mulhein (Ruhr) Styrum station I see that main signal aspect is showing "Clear" signal (single green light). Then after about 1 km I see distant signal showing "Expect Stop" (two yellow lights) and of course next main signal which is also about 1.1 km after is showing "Stop" (one red light).

    Question: is such signalling is correct?
    I'm asking, because on a distance of about 2 km I have to reduce the speed from ~150 km/h to full stop, which requires seriously hard braking (I imagine passengers flying around in their compartments;)).

    Isn't the first main signal I've met right after Mulheim (Ruhr) Styrum shouldn't be displaying "Reduced Speed" aspect (one yellow and one green lights) instead of "Clear" to inform in more in advance that I need to start braking?
     
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  2. ray.flanagan67

    ray.flanagan67 Member

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    Have noticed a lot of German routes in the upcoming signals on the Hud go straight from green to red.
     
  3. Kappi701

    Kappi701 Active Member

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    Iirc is correct this way
     
  4. Felix Costa

    Felix Costa Member

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    One thing that I notice watching some cab videos on youtube is that the driver use to start breaking as soon as the signal is visible even before acknowledging it.
     
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  5. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, but it's quite hard braking I guess.

    In my case I had to apply train brake to almost full service (level 7/8) in very short time period after I passed two-yellow aspect to stop that IC train before red light. I imagine in real life passengers would feel it quite hard. Or is it something typical for DB? ;)
     
  6. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    It is prototypical. Hard braking and flying passengers, as you already noticed. I was shocked for the first time too :)
     
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  7. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    This is absolutely correct signalling, Germany does not have an advance warning like a double yellow in the UK for example. The typical braking distance is 1km (between distant and main signal), and every train should be able to stop within a km - and typically you see the signals even further ahead so can start braking sooner, don't wait until you pass the distant signal.
    If trains can't keep that 1 km, they will have a lower maximum allowed speed, like freight trains for example. It might require some serious braking, but it is rare and still fine for passengers :)
     
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  8. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for explaining that Cramnor
    Just one question: so the "Reduced Speed" aspect (one yellow and one green light) being displayed on main or distant signal should not be considered as an advance warning of upcoming "Stop" signal?
     
  9. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, it literally means "drive 40 from this signal on until xxx" - xxx is where it gets complicated :D and if there is a number with it, it means not 40 but the number multiplied by ten (e.g. if there is a 6 it means you can go 60). So one yellow one green is basically a speed limit, and no advance warning of anything :) The distant signal is the advance warning ;)

    If you are interested in xxx, in simple terms:
    When entering or while inside a station, the speed limit applies until the next signal. (station does not necessarily mean there are platforms, along high speed lines there are often stations for passing trains but no platforms)
    When leaving a station or outside a station, it applies until the last switch in your path has been passed by the last axle of your train.
    Note: the speed limits you see on the HUD do not reflect this rule, the HUD speed limit is purely track speed based and does not take signal speeds into account.
     
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  10. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, many thanks for your explanation Cramnor

    HRR is the first German route I run.
    I've jump there from UK routes and its signalling and on some self made assumption (despite the fact I've read the very well made HRR manual) I've expected that this "Reduced speed" aspect is similar to UK's double yellow aspect and should warn me in advance about upcoming red light;)
     
  11. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I can understand that :D the German system follows a different logic compared to the British :) hit me up if you have more questions ;)
     
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  12. Kappi701

    Kappi701 Active Member

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    Thanks for the great explanation. I‘ve learned 15 years ago but didn‘t keep the details in mind like the speed limit up to the next passed switch, but reading it makes me remember;-)
     

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