New British Routes Speculation

Partly licensing, partly access for research. In the case of Cross City it already exists in TSC so most of the reference material is already there, even if stations like New Street have to be rebuilt to accommodate the interactive elements. It's also all about what will sell well and appeal to a wide audience. Much as I would like to see routes like the Cambrian Coast line, Central Wales or Inverness to Wick these are not going to be big crowd pleasers.

Depending on how the route building enterprise works it may come down to the ambition and ability of the individual members and the projects they feel happy working on. Though of course unlike those of us doing freeware in TSC or other sims you can't change your project on a whim.

 

That's a good point. When Matt got that excited I thought we were gonna get something really special. I wouldn't exactly describe Cross City as a showstopper. That would point to this being Rivet's route but I thought it looked like they were working on something Scottish?

 

I agree. There is definitely a middle ground between the ****-up that was the Rush Hour announcement and what they are doing now by announcing stuff a few weeks before it comes out. Having new products effectively announced through leaks of code is terrible marketing.

 

Why won't they post any teaser/hint picture at least, they used to do it before TSW2 roadmaps?

 

At 1 in 37 it’s the steepest “sustained mainline gradient” in the UK. Both ‘sustained’ and ‘mainline’ are rather open to interpretation.

The South Devon Banks - very much on a mainline - have sections of 1 in 36, but not for a distance long enough to be considered ‘sustained’.

Thameslink has gradients as steep as 1 in 27, but, again, they’re not really ‘sustained’.

The Cromford & High Peak railway had a short gradient of 1 in 11, and a gradient which could be considered ‘sustained’ of 1 in 14 - but it fails on the ‘mainline’ test.

It’s one of those things which can be debated forever. But Lickey is very much sustained, very much a mainline, and very steep.

As others have said, I just hope we get some traction which actually notices it’s there!

 

I don't mind if we're getting a shorter route with potentially one piece of new stock. Services can still be over an hour in duration and there's a variety of stopping patterns to choose from. Cathcart Circle and East Coastway may be similar but those are some of my favourite routes which I still use regularly and enjoy. If it means we can get a completely new route sooner then I'm all for it.

 

Can have trains not stopping at Duddeston like they use too don't know if they still do. I know a couple of times they had trains run fast all the way to Sutton Coldfield, trains only going as far as Four Oaks/Longbridge.

 

Funnily enough just did a quick digest and it looks like the Cross City services now run fast between New Street and Aston, at least this time of day. Duddeston aka Vauxhall and Hamstead served via the Walsall half hourly service. So we should really get those included on that section, too.

 

I would hope they are just saying CC 323 in the achievements but it includes the Walsall and Wolverhampton Branch even just up to Birmingham International as well.

 

I would curb your expectations unfortunately. I would love to be proved wrong but I think it is unlikely a network of lines will emerge, DTG generally just do a to b routes without branches. For WCMLS on TSC we didn't get the Northampton loop even though most of the class 350 services from Birmingham to Euston use it. TVL didn't get the Boulby branch of the Bishop Auckland branch where the majority of Saltburn services begin.

 

That is true.

 

I hope they include the AI 323s for the Wolverhampton and Walsall services. The more, the better.

 

A West Midlands Network route would be incredible with Classes 323 and 350 but the sheer number of stations would most likely I think make it developmentally impractical for a single release.

Something like 24 on the CC plus:

- 13 needed for the Chase Line not including the two shared with CC (Aston and Duddeston)
- 17 stations between Coventry and Wolverhampton

plus New Street itself which serves all of the above, coming to 55 stations which is way more than we've seen in any previous release (I think possibly double?)

 

Trying to keep an open mind:

+ a new region in the UK
+ a new train
+ a complete route (we assume)

- sounds like it will be very empty (like Glasgow) unless future DLC is added
- doesn't seem like much if any freight opportunities
- it's very short; not a deal-breaker, but pretty disappointing that the first TSW3 DLC route is back to the lower end of TSW2 route-length.

Hope we get more details soon- crazy to me there was no announcement prior to achievements leaking especially since that means it'll be put pretty soon- what kind of marketing is that? Quite a contrast to the TSW3 lead-up.

 

Shouldn't be any more division, the artist has specifically come out and said that the work was comissioned by LNER for the real-world introduction of the Azuma, and that he hasn't been contracted to do any work for TSW3 (only TSW2)
https://twitter.com/TomTheDoodler/status/1585414679790510081
https://twitter.com/TomTheDoodler/status/1585584083333152768
https://twitter.com/TomTheDoodler/status/1585611261223510016

 

Here are some information on the current cross city route. I have been playing this on TSC and I would compare the route to east coastway and cathcart circle line. Again not a route that Im excited for but all we can do is speculate until we get more information.

 

I was tempted by the BCC for TSC but I don't really play it much so happy to see it in TSW. I think there were issues with the acceleration in the preview stream, they were starting off in a v high notch to hide the lack of engine noise as it went through the rev ranges as I recall. Don't know if it was ever fixed.

However the route is the key thing, we now have plenty of London stations, BNS, Crewe, Manchester, Glasgow. Imagine if we could string something together...

Plus Birmingham is not in the south, it maybe south of where people live, but it is firmly in the Midlands and looked very good during the commonwealth games this year.

 

But are they able to obtain the XC license?

 

The sound was never fixed. There is a sound mod but it requires you to buy a bunch of other dlc since it uses sounds from each

 

BS mate it was posted on Tom Connells twitter

 

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. Anyway. I think we all know what it's going to be now. Now it's just up for debate on which trains (apart from the class 323) will run on the line.

 

Yea 100%

 

Probably not since all Cross Country content was removed on TSC a few years ago, presumably in advance of XC losing the franchise (which never actually happened). I don't think they'll risk making XC content for TSW if they have to remove it again.

 

Still quite hyped for this route, I remember a stream a while ago with DTG and a real life X-city conductor explaining all the details of the real life route just before the release for TSC. I'd be fairly sure that the same chap will be involved in the creation and/or advising capacity of the route for TSW (plus his colleagues that he knows that actually drive X-city) and if so, we should be in for a treat regarding realism etc.

I do understand the folks (including me) who crave something major like WCML/ECML, I do feel that we've waited long enough for something like that, but I'm sure it'll happen in the not too distant.

 

I'm also still not sure if this is the Rivet route or the DTG route. Both are overhead electric remember. Scope wise this feels very Rivet like, but could also be DTG like Cathcart Circle. There's still hope I guess.

The 'leaked' picture of the Azuma is a headbreaker for me. It is ibviously done in the style unique to TSW, but I haven't seen artwork like that since the release of TSW2, with TSW 3 and Rush Hour having somewhat different styles, might just be a fun extra doodle in the same style. Time will tell, and I feel like we'll know in two weeks, if not next week already.

 

I was thinking the other day, eventually I'm sure we'll see Liverpool Lime St to Manchester Piccadilly or Victoria, which opens up the possibility of then updating NTP to potentially go from Liverpool to Leeds.

Also, if we get Piccadilly, (Manchester Victoria isn't on the WCML) then we'll have the links to a whopper of a WCML route. The intentions are there for everyone to see, we just need to be patient and watch the pieces fall into place.

 

It’s roadmap week next week so hopefully find out then, I know nothing guaranteed of course. Really hope we get ECML, would be a day one purchase and I haven’t even got TSW3 yet, waiting for a sale this time.

 

The artist said that he drew it for the real Azumas entering service. The full photo was a series of drawings he had done, which included some he had done for TSW2.

 

This is the same as my take on the situation at the moment.

I have no issues with modern routes, I like them and they're fun to drive. I just don't find them anywhere near as interesting as the eras that came and went before, that's my personal taste. Nothing comes close to steam locomotives in my eyes, I just love everything about them. BR diesels and DMUs are also brilliant, especially the 37s! In fact, I had no interest in modern era stock prior to getting into TSW. Playing the game encouraged me to research routes and rolling stock that currently runs on our network and all round has increased my interests. Same goes for German and USA content.

I also find historical content more enjoyable from a gameplay perspective. For example, the Class 465 is good fun, but I much prefer driving a BR Class 101 with its gear changes and lapped brakes. There are more things to think about, it's a more engaging experience. This is why I want to see the WCML Over Shap route brought over in the same era as TS Classic, the BR Class 87 with its tap changing would make for an excellent gameplay experience.

Looking forward to Birmingham Cross City - I'm just happy we're away from London, that is all I wanted from the next release. As someone who lives in Shropshire, it's not too far away from me either! Always happy to see some content local to my area. Welsh Marches: Shrewsbury - Newport please, DTG!

In general, I just want to see a happy balance when it comes to the era of UK content. After these two modern routes, I want to see either another steam locomotive for Spirit of Steam or a new BR Diesel route. The last new British Diesel locomotive class added was the Class 20 at the end of TSW2020. Follow up with another modern release, and so on...

There's just too much great potential content on the UK side from all eras to just focus on a single time period.

 

Smart money would suggest BCC is the DTG route. Still wouldn't be surprised if Rivet's isn't a cut down version of their North Clyde route for TSC.

 

Technically it isn't their route, but a freeware route they built some better assets for and repackaged as payware. They could reuse those assets on a TSW route potentially, but I think it will be something else.

 

Hopefully the intention is that Cross City will be some sort of stopgap measure to get a route out before christmas, allowing them to focus on building something more ambitious (and probably more time consuming) in the new year.

 

Part of me wishes you'd kept that to yourself. I was beginning to get my hopes up, although that's entirely my fault.

I think my problem is less the route itself but the timing. I'm sure BCC will be a fine route, and if they get the 323 sounds right it may end up being one of my favourites. But it's been so long since the last completely brand new modern British route- I think the last one was Cathcart, which is ALSO an AC EMU commuter route with a massive station that will appear deserted. With such a long wait I don't think it's unreasonable to expect something big, and while Cross City has the potential to be really good, it's slightly underwhelming that we're getting it when Rivet will likely provide something similar alongside it.

Of course, I suppose it's still possible this IS Rivet's route, and DTG will wow us with something else after all. My concern is that we may have to wait a really long time to get a properly meaty modern British route. If DTG's release pattern from the last year continues, we'll see 3+ German routes that are near identical to each other and a couple of American ones before they get round to another British route, and that may be a historical one. Which I wouldn't be completely opposed to provided the blasted 101 stays in it's coffin. I'd still like to see a Valenta powered HST, and I know a lot of people would love to see a Deltic. I'd much prefer a Streak or an A3 personally.

 

East Coast Main Line London maybe Dovetail Games. Or something around York station might as well.

My conclusion is that the Birmingham Cross City route will come from Rivet Games




From Train Simulator classic!
East Coast Main Line London-Peterborough Route ?
East Coast Main Line Modern: York - Peterborough Route ?
Birmingham Cross City Line: Lichfield - Bromsgrove & Redditch Route ?



class 150.1 Instead of the current Class 150.2
In theory you then have two new trains.

Birmingham Cross City route



Class 323



East Coast Main Line London


Class 387



Class 43

 

While I'm all for varied routes across the UK, I seriously hope this doesn't mean the end to more southern-based electric routes and/or electrostars on TSW, especially for those of us who really like or are local to such real-life routes - though it seems people love to moan on here regardless...

 

I'd also like more Electrostars too, I'd love to see them on an ECML South route or an updated GWE, I just think that we need a break from them for a little bit.

 

Now this would be a challenging drive during poor adhesion!

A single 66 on loaded oil tanks up the Lickey…

 

full power

 

Ah yes.
Still would be fun regardless.

 

This is would do it for me! Steam railtour up the Lickey with a Pannier tank as banker. Man, I really want a Pannier in TSW!

 

Anything loco hauled is fun on Licky!

 

Well the whole thing would have been interesting as a steam era project (with the broken steam simulation fixed of course). Could even have carried on from Redditch via Broom Jn and Evesham to Ashchurch!

 

You gotta love this. Amazing scenery and some brilliant steam thrash!

 

I see a few people bring up that Cross City could be a Rivet project, that's certainly possible, but I doubt it. Here's the thing about them, for all their faults they usually do a good job of making their picks stand out compared to the rest. As an example West Cornwell is set in the 90's, where as DTG's picks were either in modern times, or set in the 80's. Might not be a massive difference, but still makes it a bit more notable than if it were just yet another present day route. And that's one of the more tame examples, Arosa, Isle of Wight, and S-Bahn are all rather distinct routes compared to the rest of the TSW lineup.

Also it's not like Cross City with only the 323 would be that abnormal pick for DTG, Cathcart Circle & LGV are both examples of routes which only contain a single new type. Also even a lot of the routes which do have multiple locos often are usually only doing one brand new loco for it. Usually the second loco is just a modified version of a locomotive from another pack. Spirit of Steam's really the only exception to this of late I can think of, but that's a exception, not the norm. So the idea a few had that the one locomotive is some sign it's a Rivet route is ridiculous if you ask me.

 

I think they'll use the 66 off of SEHS via a layer instead of including it, less work for them, and most of the player base probably already own it. Wouldn't be surprised if the treatment train got layered in as well, seeing as one of the selling points was that it would layer into future routes.

 

The reason I thought of Rivet Games was because they already had experience with the Class 150 and this could possibly be a second train in the route. The class 323 has a lot of windows in real life. Since only Rivet games do that, it would sound a little more logic
to me.
( Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove )
Huge respect for Rivet Games they learn from their mistakes. Couple of British routes have already to go back in time in some areas due to a problem in the license agreement. Opposite Germany you often have DB and no route has been set back in an older time yet.
or is it just to have more difference ?


You are right
The only routes released with more than 1 train are those below.

Sand Patch Grade
Great Western Express
West Somerset Railway
Ruhr-Sieg Nord
Tees Valley Line

at all indeed always had a train from the previous route.

only
Spirit of Steam

am also a player, since the beginning of 2017 and have experienced all the DLC outcome.
It is clear for sure.

 

Imagine it is Avanti West Coast, that would be crazy, cause from this video it looks like Avanti are the fastest train in the UK.
You can see this from this video:
I don't mind if it is ECML as well, as long as the train is fast and very busy with commuters.

 

HS1, which we already have, is the fastest line in the UK (300km/h). The ECML and WCML have the same line speed, along with many other lines (125mph). Currently, only trains with active tilt technology can travel at 125 on parts of the WCML, others are limited to 110 iirc.

110 for normal trains, 125 for tilting ones.
Granted, Pendos would be very cool!

 

I’d prefer the Class 370 over the Pendolino. It’s a thing of beauty and Britain’s first tilting train. Sadly, it only had a very short life due to technical issues, lack of financing and politics.

The technology from it was sold to Fiat Ferroviaria and implemented into their Pendolino trains, including the Class 390.

DTG made it in TS Classic so one day, I hope it comes to TSW!

 

If memory serves me correctly the APT never entered passenger service and even if it did only worked a handful of timetabled services. Of course if that meant we got some nice 81 - 87's for the rest of the traffic I would be like a pig in clover!