New British Routes Speculation

Especially living on the route and being Daisy's friend for many years, it was great to see what you did on the TSC version

 

lots of people ask for busy routes so is that happening as well?

 

Hopefully, the audio team won't mess this up again and get a realistic recording sound from the train and the track joint sound. Also, the route itself has to have a good scenery view and a different feeling overall.

 

Or they can’t do every single route that people want.

 

For all we know they could be secretly be working on these routes in the background.

These two routes in particular are a big challenge so I guess it’d take significantly longer than usual to produce them. Don’t rule anything out at this stage.

 

Two of the biggest routes to do. Those will take much longer than BCC.

 

I am also waiting for this as well.

 

I hope what you are saying is true cause that would be amazing

 

i was under the impression ECML and WCML were the two most requested routes when Sam released his list the other year

 

"lots and lots of people have asked for it" really!!
Not on these forums. I see WCML, ECML, Hope Valley (personal fav. of mine), Wales. I don't recall seeing lots and lots of requests for BCC
Sounds like another Cathcart to me. I don't recall anyone asking for that either

 

I knew there was a post somewhere with the top 23 on. How many top 23 are made, a few now. I’m open to this route but how do ECML and WCML keep missing the cut?

if you put ECML in search box there’s page after page suggesting it.
Curious player

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/list-of-top-23-route-suggestions-for-tsw-2.31425/

 

While people ask for ECML and WCML do they understand that there is no way the whole length routes will be released. Kings Cross to Peterborough and Euston to Rugby probably best that can be hoped for and so on in stages North. Also if the incumbent operator doesn't play ball with the license then it probably back to BR days or Nowt......

Also asking for WCML or ECML with out a specific era and section of line is a bit like asking a travel agent for a holiday in a hot country but not explaining which one you want....

 

As much people requested those, im sure dtg is waiting until we have the proper (amount) of rolling stock for it. Now with just trains on board the chance is big we get one of the more frequent routes.

 

I don't doubt it. It doesn't help DTG or the other devs so they will probably replicate what's about in TSC which is a shame. Cross City already out in TSC so now on two platforms...

 

I think it's worth considering how huge either of these would be as projects, even assuming that you're doing them in present-day format where some existing material can be carried over.

Of course my big assumption is that when folk ask for ECML/WCML they mean the busiest section into the London termini.

(For comparison the Birmingham Cross-City line is 37 miles and 24 stations.)

WCML London Euston to Birmingham New Street
113 miles and 41 stations (of which 10 are already built and functional as part of Bakerloo, plus New Street will be included in CCL so 30 new stations required)
plus another 24 miles and two more stations if you include the Northampton loop, which I think would be reasonable on this route
At a minimum you'd need two new pieces of rolling stock (Classes 350 and 390) and then follow up with a 710 for the Watford DC line

ECML London King's Cross to Peterborough
76 miles and 24 stations on the KGX - PBL direct route
plus another 24 miles and 11 stations if the Hertford Loop is included
plus another 4 miles and 5 stations if the Northern City Line is included
(for what it's worth, I think the route quality would be massively increased beyond the sum of its parts if they were included)
Again I think you'd need at a minimum another two pieces of new rolling stock (either a Class 801 or 91 / DVT plus a Class 700/717 for the TL and GN services) plus a re-liveried 387

You could do cut-back versions of either but I don't think they would be well received as too much traffic would be missing. WCML looks more manageable to me as a layman at this time.

I'd be perfectly willing to shell out £40 for either of these as described but they would certainly be massive projects taking up a substantial chunk of development time.

 

id suggest people do understand, there are 4 pages of people asking about kgx to pbo if you search for ECML.

it would be a huge project but I'd like to think similarly like Brighton to london , a success

 

In fairness L2B did launch later than expected and had (still has, really) a lot of rough edges, which maybe indicates that it's the largest TSW route (referring to project size - route mileage + no. of stations) that DTG can currently manage within the £25 standard pricing. Not to mention the memory issues that might prevent them rolling out a larger route until they're solved.

 

Never going to happen

 

Been here long enough to appreciate your satire

 

The scenery would pose little problem as well, a win, win!

 

Fair enough I had presumed they are shouts for the whole lot which I have seen somewhere over time. After a while I gave up on the suggestions forum as it was ECML, WCML, Merseyrail and repeat or at least thats what I think I read!

But like I have said earlier if the imcumbent operator doesnt want to licence then thats an issue, nevermind the emptiness of it all. Maybe the WCML is on the cooker as the 323 would beef it up around the West Midlands...Still need a lot more though!

 

Would be nice if DTG included 13 locos as a DLC in the future to celebrate 13 years of Dovetail rail games

 

No Negativity. Can't believe you think it is. I know the CCL really well use to run on that line nearly every week. More referring to you saying WCML ECML to come as one package is never going to happen.

 

Out of interest, how much reference was done for this route by visiting the real life route and train, or was there a bit of 'this is how it looks in TSC, so we'll do the same for TSW'?

I ask because with the TSC version, there was quite a few inaccuracies with both the Class 323 and route itself.

Not criticism at all, I'm genuinely interested in how this route was built for TSW 3

 

So I can assume its coming by the end of November?

 

Its been advertised as coming out on the 15th of November.

 

Surely a big route deserves more resources and time spent on it? The payoff would be worth it, no..?

If we had known a EC or WCML route was in the works, I'm almost certain we would be happy to wait until it's right.

See above, but once JT and ATS start knocking out content, does that essentially "free up" more time with DTG to work on EC or WCML routes, or is that why ATS was brought in, they've done WCML and ECML haven't they? JT seems to love the MML too (as do I).

How far ahead do you plan, a year? Surely there comes a point where you have to make time and find space on the schedule for it or it'll never come.

I'm sure I'm wrong but it feels like DTG are happy to get "quick win's" rather than dedicate time on a bigger project like the ECML/WCML.

 

Thank you Matt.

I do have a question if I may please. In relation to this cross country route and any future are they now being built differently so extensions in the manner of SEHS can now be bolted on easier in the future?
Could that make unnamed routes easier to build in stages or is too much of a faff time wise?

I don't recall seeing it being asked anywhere before and I'm assuming SEHS with the high play rate recently published was a commercial success?

 

I hear what you say Matt and despite my reservations expressed in the other thread I may still get this on Day 1 if it's not a silly price. Certainly true the route has been requested in the Suggestions forum more than a few times. However just seems this should have gone the extra mile. Not expecting the BVE style West Midlands network, but come on not having the line out to the main depot is a major omission. More so than Cathcart any line around Birmingham is going to look bare without additional rolling stock. At the least a Voyager and Class 170 as any run out towards Longbridge direction is almost inevitably going to have you passing one of these. New Street needs to be alive and vibrant, constant stream of trains coming and going, announcements going off every few seconds, hustle and bustle of people everywhere.

Oh and a driveable canal boat!

 

I am intrigued to see how much of New Street is modelled. I'm thinking of Harlem and Grand central not having the upper concourse modelled. I'd go so far to say in the same way as Grand Central, the upper concourse and shops will look really odd if they are quiet and if I recall from my time in this station you'd need the concourse to walk into the differing platform zones upstairs?

I'm hoping there are some layer treats in here and looking forward to seeing what's what in a couple of days.

 

I guess folks are happy to have all runs on green lights and bare mainline stations. It's great that Matt comes on and explains some thought behind the release. This is one of the busiest stations in the country though and will be looking like T3s on all routes bar Cross City. I can't see me buying this for any reason even on sale unless some mystery x factor is lurking....

 

With regard to running on greens, if not doing a one off Journey run, the devil in me might introduce a little pertubation by leaving Redditch 10' late, a bit of station overtime at Selly Oak while the chavettes get their baby buggies on board. 25' late by Lichfield...

 

Thank you Matt. I do have a concern that seems lately on both TSW3 and TSC I’m hearing the same that it all comes down to cost an Time to produce it. I hear you and thats business. But I do believe sometimes we need to invest in order to grow. I know the rush hour had lots of issues but to be honest that’s what got me into TSW2. Those 3 routes are on my top list of as they have the variety.. I’m not sure what the outcome was as far profits but I would pay double for a route. And please don’t that to negatively. I think all these post are good for the game and it’s future. I will keep buying good content. But hopefully in the future we can expand and go back to some routes that need gaps filled in. Anyways thank you for what you guys do. You guys got me into train simulator and I do appreciate it.

 

There have been many complaints on here about the lack of recent UK content, I think there would have been a lot of moaning if DTG announced they were making the ECML or WCML and it wasn't going to be released till next March!

Personally I am happy with the Cross City line as it is an interesting route and the class 323 quite a characterful train for a modern EMU. Pre covid it had an intense timetable so should be busy even with one train.

 

As mentioned, I shall put my "Mr Pertubator" or as I was known in the Control "The Destroyer" hat on, see if it's possible to mix things up a bit. That's where a "Chaos Mode" would really score on a route like this, so if you're running 20' late on a Lichfield service you get the option to turn round at Four Oaks or maybe run fast to recover the lost time.

I just hope we get a decent number of start and end points so those of us who want to attempt a 1981 style* classic diesel timetable won't be thwarted by lack of paths. Access to the entry and exit portals would be nice too, as I already suggested.

And I wasn't entirely joking about chugging along in a canal boat, train spotting as you go. TSW needs an interactive spotters'/bashers' notebook so you can clear the traction units you've driven. Could be a nice little Steam achievement, actually.

* My first run to Redditch was in 1976** doing a Midland Rover ticket for a week. Mon to Fri service only ran during the peaks, so you had to do it on a Saturday when there was an out and back shopper's trip around 1200 from New Street. Class 121 or Class 122 bubble car on its own if I recall.

** Now I feel really old!

 

Well great news regarding the busy, realistic timetable and it sounds like plenty of adverse signals to keep us on our toes. Approach control is a must and I'm glad it's implemented as in reality (for all new TSW routes now). Just need to update those speed signs!

 

We've got a second UK route coming out which has yet to be announced. If DTG came out and said we're making an ECML route which we're working hard on and won't be out until late Q1 or early Q2 2023, people would be cool with it. (I know they don't announce dates until they're certain but for arguments sake..). In that scenario, 2 UK routes in 5 months is pretty good actually.

Alas, this doesn't matter as currently we're not getting anything like that so, hey ho!

 

People might be, but this is a business, they need turnover in the short(er) term to keep solvent.

 

So in the case (which I totally get), we'll never see an ECML or WCML route as it costs too much and takes longer to build. There needs to be a point in the life of TSW where the 3rd Parties can keep the money coming in over a year or so while DTG build a ECML/WCML or vice versa.

 

We will get it at some point in separate shorter sections. It just requires some time to make.

 

How about a tour of the Cadbury factory?

 

DTG Matt, Will you be posting images or videos on you guys doing research about the route IRL. You did that previously and I found it to be very interesting. If your not would you concider doing it in the future?

 

My first thought when I saw Matt posted.
“Wow! Matt Looked in this thread!”.
Lol. It's always nice to see the Devs looking at our thoughts and suggestions.

 

I must admit I was disappointed with what seemed to be another one ‘loco’ suburban route with “green signals all the way”. However, Matt’s description of the route and particularly the application of the approach control system with a busy timetable makes me think this could be an interesting and challenging route to drive. Quite looking forward to it now.

 

Agreed. It’s genuinely great to hear that the approach control is re-created, but the reason I focus so much on having some signal check is not an irrational hatred of the colour green, but a wish to have an element of unpredictability and variation in a journey (as there is in real life). Approach control doesn’t do that, because it’s still the same every time you reach that signal. To get the variation you need some conflicts with other train movements, and if only 323s working the cross city route are represented, it’s difficult to think how that will happen.

I suppose it’s possible there could be some conflicts between Lichfield - Bromsgrove and Redditch - Lichfield trains over the junction at Barnt Green. Apart from that, if everything runs to time (as it does on all TSW3 routes so far) then it sounds as if every run will be the same.

Hopefully I’ll be proved wrong, though. There are lots of good things about Cross City as a choice of route, and the screenshots we’ve seen so far look great. With some other services layered in (even if only AI) to get in the way a bit and give that variation, it could be one of the best routes yet.

 

Remains to be seen if the timetable includes Walsall services between Birmingham and Aston and vv.

 

I can only think one UK route that has adverse signals and that’s BML. All that route needs is the 700 and to fix the current bug . I have been playing BCC is TSC and there you get the 350 as AI to fill new street station. In quick drive you also get some 66 freight services as AI but other than that I don’t see too much happening