Upcoming Release Master The West Midlands!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG JD, Nov 1, 2022.

  1. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and for Lickey Incline unassisted services needs a Class 60 due to it trading horsepower for tractive force 105k lbf vs 91k lbf class 66 unless there is a version of Class 66 that can match Class 60 tractive effort.
     
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  2. pveezy

    pveezy Well-Known Member

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    Yep although that’s a benefit of the real world having a unified rail network with common branding.

    UK privatization and multiple companies mean even if there is a train/loco that makes sense it won’t make sense unless they re-do it in a different livery inside/out. I.e I think the HST goes to Birmingham in real life but as a Crosscountry branded train, not the GWR currently in game. So the choices would be to either layer in GWR which would annoy some people as not being realistic, have nothing which annoys other people since the station seems dead, or make an entire new train just for an AI service which doesn’t seem like something DTG would do.
     
  3. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    There is a 4th option, many TOCs towards the end of the HST services on their routes painted a couple into historic BR liveries, personally whilst not a perfect solution wouldnt turn me off the route and Id see it as a reasonable compromise even if not 100% accurate for XC (I dont think they ever did such a thing).
     
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  4. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    XC have recently repainted a powercar in the InterCity Executive livery.
     
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  5. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected - so theres the happy medium right there.
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Southeast England or South of London may be a better term to use ;)
     
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  7. andyscotland

    andyscotland Well-Known Member

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    Yes actually, as I was born there
     
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  8. RailFan97

    RailFan97 Active Member

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    I agree this is a shame and would spoil the immersion.
     
  9. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Really looking forward to this route. Not really concerned about only having the Class 323 as this unit is what you would see the majority of the time on the route anyway. Other new stock wouldn't really make sense as their practical use is far more limited.

    In fairness we still have large stock gaps on other routes, e.g. no Thameslink on London Commuter, Eurostar on SEHS etc.
     
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  10. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Well-Known Member

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    Well I 'm looking forward to it. Five Ways was my local station for a couple of years in the days of DMUs.
    Looking forward to attacking Lickey in some classic traction in Scenario Planner.
     
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  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    What could redeemm this route to a Day 1 purchase is a proper classic traction layer as was used to enhance WCL. As it is I suspect DTG already eyeing a similar style Legends pack, similar to that done for GWE.
     
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  12. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    They gotta start somewhere to be honest
     
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  13. max1313

    max1313 Active Member

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    Visually the route looks great as it does on TSC. The downside is the amount and variety of the timetable. I can see probably hourly service from Bromsgrove and Redditch to New street. And every 30 minute service from Lichfield and four oaks to new street. Maybe a dozen class 66s services, a couple from BR heavy freight, and with one Jubilee rail tour. Just me speculating.
     
  14. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Disappointing but I suppose it was expected. Just wanted something with more variety, and more of a headliner for the first completely brand new modern British route in forever.

    Also I think it's very telling that unless I missed something, there's not one screenshot of new street station even though it's one of the main selling points.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2022
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  15. andyscotland

    andyscotland Well-Known Member

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    Me too. I reckon alongside the 323 I will do 150 and 166 routes tbh.
     
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  16. jefalcon6

    jefalcon6 Member

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    Slowly creeping north! :)
     
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  17. andyscotland

    andyscotland Well-Known Member

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    Transpennine route is ok tbf but why DTG Alex (sorry Alex, not you personally) omitted to include a pacer train is beyond me. If DTG Alex and Co would like to discuss this at work, that would be grand lol.
     
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  18. MadEdders

    MadEdders Active Member

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    Yes! This was my number 1 most wanted route for TSW so I'm glad it's finally being added. Hopefully the layers will make New Street a bit more lively and if a steam one is one then the Lickey incline will be interesting...
     
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  19. andyscotland

    andyscotland Well-Known Member

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    I have part of the cross city line in openBVE and in new street you get the proper platform announcements etc, this really should therefore happen in tsw3.
     
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  20. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I was hoping and expecting something else. Not necessarily better but different. Like from Euston or Waterloo or up in the north (around Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Donnie) or something else in the south (Bournemouth-Southampton) or in the Midlands (around Leicester for example).

    That doesn't mean that I don't value to Cross City line though nor that it will be not nice route. In fact, I see it as a very welcomed addition to my UK collection. Plus it's finally great to get my hands on BNS as (while I hate the station) is very familiar to me from my commutes to Brummieland.
    Just one more hope with this DLC. Can we please get 730 at some point as well?

    I also hope it will make next routes in the future around Midlands more likely as well as Birmingham is one very important hub from North to South, East to West.
     
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  21. andyscotland

    andyscotland Well-Known Member

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    I second this post. Being a brummy I wanted BCC anyway but yes, more variety in more parts of the UK for sure. We have a Scottish route with another romoured to follow shortly so perhaps a Welsh route.
     
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  22. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    Completely off topic but I used to live in Leicester briefly and also I used to go regularly to Birmingham for shopping, nights out etc. Memories...
    I don't know why but Brummie was like my most regular place back then. When I lived in Sheffield (I have been all around) then I used to go regularly around Yorkshire and Lancashire but in Leicester I rarely went anywhere else than Birmingham.

    Cheers for seconding my post though ;)
     
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  23. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent route choice, although I do share concern about the rolling stock, but I suppose we have to start somewhere. GCC is a nice route but I seldom play because GC is devoid of any life & there is no variety to be had in rolling stock. This being said, the 323 is a solid choice and can’t wait to get my hands on it, aslong as it is in better condition than the TSC version.

    I think there is a very clear lack of knowledge regarding the route, it has a wealth of stations (20+) and a brand new EMU & a new ToC, far more value than many packs we’ve had the past. Journeys on this line can take up to around 90 minutes end to end.

    Can’t wait to see this one on a preview.
     
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  24. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    While I'm always excited for a new, modern UK route, I'm highly frustrated with DTG in their current approach.

    My main concern is the fact the route comes out in just over two weeks time - community feedback has and always will be vitally important, especially during preview streams. Please go back to the previous time with a full roadmap with lots to look forward too compared with now with the late reveal and almost instant release date - where's the logic?

    Also, I'm concerned that a route released in 2022 post-Rush Hour has potentially a single train (without referring to extra layers from other DLC) and the main fact that Birmingham New Street could potentially be completely empty - which would ruin it for me. As others have said, I like the German DLC which has a lot of layer opportunities, although I appreciate this is not always as easier when compared with the UK, but still.
     
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  25. kanamechidori#8728

    kanamechidori#8728 Member

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    New street is gonna be like Jamaica station... Dead.
     
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  26. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, I appreciate everyone has their own tastes and opinion, and that's absolutely fine, but it gets to a point where it stops being useful feedback when it eventually just becomes constant repetitive moaning thread after thread - guaranteed the Electrostar will be mentioned most regardless of what the topic is. As I've said elsewhere, I will always welcome varied UK routes for new rolling stock and location etc, but I do hope DTG will also continue at least with South East/London/Electrostar routes from time to time as well for those with their main interest in such - allowing at the same time to create more interconnected routes and layers from DLC etc.
     
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  27. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    I think they will continue with Electrostar stuff. As Southern DLCs have been selling pretty well and there are still some gems to be had yet. I do love Electrostar and southern routes but I also like the northern stuff.
    So mix and match is the best approach in my opinion.
    I also hope that they do more extensions and more extendable routes in the future.
     
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  28. seancrabtree2003

    seancrabtree2003 Active Member

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    Only thing g wrong was I found out about this route by steam, surely you should have done the article before publishing on selling sites.
     
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  29. djcwey

    djcwey Well-Known Member

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    "...banking locomotives to assist with the arduous task of heading South West out of the city."
    Don't expect miracles Hentis! Reading the article somebody doesn't know that the Lickey Incline runs SW-NE towards Birmingham New Street?
     
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  30. bensconnolly

    bensconnolly Member

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    I'm not generally a negative nelly, but surely the "World" part of your name is ironic now?
     
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  31. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    Technically more English routes assist the world name, World isn’t just country it’s every place

    as long as they don’t bring the same route twice in the same era they cover the different world par

    It’s still of course arguable about how far the world perspective expands in the game though
     
  32. DANtheWALLY

    DANtheWALLY Active Member

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    I don't even need to list concerns about this route as they're throughout the thread but Dovetail please note all this down and reply to it during a livestream or in a post so we have an idea of what's going on.
     
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  33. Conductor B

    Conductor B Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'd love to see more GWE types of DLC that can combine with other stuff. Three completely different locomotives with three completely different types of services. Most all the other British stuff seems like EMU commuter runs with a single lever to drive, and almost no freight to speak of. It's kinda as though the USA only had the LIRR.

    I'm not sure how good/bad BR vs. privatization is in the real world, never having been to the UK, but from a railfan perspective, it's more enjoyable to see and drive different liveried trains that use different types of stock and traction. :D One thing I liked about Amtrak as a kid was the combination of different types of passenger rolling stock on a single train. Heavyweight baggage cars; streamliner diners, lounges, sleepers, and slumbercoaches; and Amfleet coaches and lounges on the same train with two F40s at the front. 12-car long trains that split and required multiple switching moves enroute.
     
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  34. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Biggest concerns….

    The UK’s busiest station outside of London with only a 323 or two to fill it.

    The sound of the 323 has to be spot on - it is too distinctive to be anything else.
     
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  35. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    For DTG they can make Class 730 DLC and the CAF Class 196 as DLC called WMU Next Generation Commuter pack. 196 does Lickey Incline Hereford Services via Bromsgrove
    Class 196 picture
    [​IMG]
    Class 730
    [​IMG]
     
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  36. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I suppose my first question is: will there be Rush Hour elements in this route, like passenger volumes, service frequency? Or is the Rush Hour idea now dead and gone? Such promises eh?

    My second question would be: in what way does this new route move the game forward? One electric train ( apparently), a bunch of suburban stations and one major station which promises to be as empty and forlorn as Glasgow Central or Grand Central. It all sounds chillingly familiar.

    Is this the future of the game, at least for UK routes? One suburban commuter run after another. What happened to imagination, daring, risk-taking?

    Thank goodness there's Sand Patch and Cajon Pass, NTP and TVL. That's where I'll be for the foreseeable future, unless DTG starts showing an interest in real trains again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2022
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  37. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It will be £29.99, the new standard price for route DLC.
     
  38. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Looking foward to seeing how this new route and emu is represented in TSW.

    Not being from the UK, I have no familiarity with either but after watching youtube videos of the Class 323 it has a quite distinctive traction and braking sounds, so hopefully this is captured.

    This route does seem a good fit for TSW both in terms of route length and gameplay. The main Birmingham station as others have pointed out may seem quite desolate with only the one EMU...but we'll see which layers are included closer to release
     
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  39. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    where does it state this as the price?
     
  40. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I'm quite interested in this route but that could be because I've longed for a route which ventures past the north circular for a long time. I see a lot of valid concerns regarding how quiet B'ham New Street will be but that's nothing new when it comes to TSW. I guess one thing going for the route is that we now have New Street which opens up the WCML.

    I'm not really familiar with the route, is there scope for additional loco dlc's to come..? I guess one thing going for the route is that we now have New Street which opens up the WCML.
     
  41. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Which is about £9.99 more than it's worth.
     
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  42. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe just me being over optimistic, but could the fact that New Street isn't shown, and the teaser is short, be because there will be more to this? If not the Hereford DMUs (which are prime for a DLC with the extra track to at least Worcester because it wouldn't affect existing services), there is mention in the article of the incoming new trains. WMR are posting loads of content about these, so it's entirely conceivable that they'd give DTG decent access to them for modelling and recording as part of that promotional push. The first 196s are already in service on the Shrewsbury line for recording and they're in the newer purple and orange livery so would add some visual variety from the start.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
  43. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I've digested over the last 13 hours and I've came to the conclusion that DTG have either ran out of options for UK content or have zero respect for UK content fans.

    14 months since they bothered to provide us with modern UK route, even TSW3 launch didn't deserve new UK content. While German and American rail fans got some serious new mileage and gorgeous content we got a washed out extension. To follow this up DTG felt an identi-kit EMU commuter route was the best that they could be bothered with.

    The sooner we get real completion in the train Sim market the better, as quite frankly I feel that DTG don't give a hoot about creating anything different from commuter routes. It's an insult nothing more nothing less.
     
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  44. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    But CCL basically had four different routes for passenger trains, AND the depot was included. So there was a significant variety of services. So far, this seems like an A-B with a little split at one end.
     
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It's a lot better now than it used to be
     
  46. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The german route was how many stations?
    And weren't there complaints from the American people who want more than "yet another freight route in the middle of nowhere"?

    The main problem with creating UK routes is either they're very dense (ie lots of stations to make which takes time) or very little going on unless you can make 100 miles through several cities but the trains don't stop much (thinking ECML North as an example)
    So DTG are in a hard place with the UK where people want all the trains on the routes, but seem to want to have full 400 mile runs as well. How are they supposed to satisfy everyone?
     
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  47. trainsUK

    trainsUK Member

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    How was I meant to know what it looked like without seeing it ? Just because you know something doesn’t mean someone else does
     
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  48. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Don't expect them to satisfy everyone everytime they do a route. But unless you are a fan of EMUs on commuter services then you aren't getting any satisfaction out of TSW UK wise and haven't for more than a while
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
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  49. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I just think they have either a very limited UK route building team or they have run out of ideas, despite the regular listings in the Suggestion forum. I would like to think this project is the hub on which a future UK network can be built, Run 8 style, starting with the rest of the West Midlands AC electrified network. But the fact they CBA to even put in a 2 mile section to the maintenance depot for the route says much about the mindset at work. 12 months from now this will be another forgotten, unloved DLC relegated to obscurity, no additional trains, no extension and no doubt plagued by the unfinishable Journey runs and scenarios that nobody hand tested. Just like Spirit Of Steam has faded away.

    For the the next UK route they need to pull the stops out and give us a decent 80 or 90 mile stretch of main line, to match what they are doing with the German and US side of things. I don't care where it is or even what era but just break this cycle of 30 mile commuter routes with one train that aren't even a joined up network. If they are starting to charge £30 now for DLC then I expect a lot more for my money to get a Day 1 purchase.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2022
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  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That maybe true but "non electric, non commuter lines" can also bore people to tears given they tend to be green light specials unless they're freight, in which case you need very long routes to do them justice

    But this route does satisfy quite a few of the more recent "community demands"...
    • Full route - check
    • No electrostars - check
    • Not in London - check
    And with over 20 stations, over an hour full run length and the possibilities of DLC, extensions, networking etc there could be a lot more DTG can do with this as a base to build from
     
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