Upcoming Release Master The West Midlands!

They could even just port over 150s and loco hauled stock as well. Just something to give it some variety.

 

Still feel not including Soho as a useable depot is a poor decision, unless there were external factors at play. However given extensive assistance and access was provided by the TOC, as detailed in the article, seems unlikely someone put a hand up and said, "No you're not going there."

Probably too late to rework now with release less than two weeks, but IMHO the route builder(s) should be told to go back and finish the job for an update patch and whoever signed off on omitting the depot should hang their head in shame.

And again, it shouldn't be too late to layer in a half hourly Cross Country service with unbranded HST's, even if not the correct traction. Increasingly looks like another project rushed to meet a deadline, rather than take a few more weeks to add the polish, then the audience redirected with all the self congratulations and high fives etc. Exactly what we saw with Spirit Of Steam.

 

Definitely agree with making new liveries for existing stock, 150’s & HST’s are an acceptable stand in here. They did this with the 185 for DCZ, so would be nice to see the HST getting reutilised.

I didn’t watch the entire stream admittedly so not sure what I’ve missed out on, but surely using the 323’s as substitutes for other WM/LM services for the sake of density is within the region of realistic enough?
Same can be applied to the HST & 150 as above, but the 150 would be pushing it I suppose.

 

On the topic of layers, all I'm expecting is the obligatory 66 and probably a steam and/or diesel railtour to have a crack at the Lickey Incline. I'm interested whether they'll try and include banking assistance. I think freight trains are usually banked up there, and while steam railtours are usually banked it's not unheard of for them to make it up unassisted if the crew is keen enough. Fittingly for TSW3, a Jubilee (no. 45693 Leander) just about made it up there in 2006, before the line was electrified and Bromsgrove station was rebuilt. Here's some grainy onboard footage from one of the rear carriages if anyone's interested.



More recently, last year a GWR Castle no. 7029 Clun Castle also made it up unassisted. Skip to about 1:30 and listen with headphones because the sound is absolutely glorious. You can keep your Deltics and 47s, nothing on earth beats the sound of a Great Western engine working hard.



Both had an admittedly light load of 6 coaches, although the Castle seemed to make lighter work of it owing to it being a more powerful engine. For the sake of consistency and realism if there are railtours I'd hope DTG would also stick to 6 coach loads.

 

I do recall seeing 150s trundle up the Lickey incline during the days of London Midland so while stretching the realms of realism it wouldn't be too far fetched.

 

I'm not a huge kettle fan but I do enjoy a GWR engine. Always sounds "beefier" than others.

 

How would 150s be appropriate? They haven't run in the Birmingham area in around a decade to my knowledge. I believe the only ones you'd see now are TfW's ones and A. That's quite rare as they only very occasionally stand in for 158s and 153s and B. You'd only see them at New Street anyway.

 

I was on the Castle Class unassisted. It was a wonderful experience!

 

If it was a 150-1 we'd be able to accept that as they were still running in 2018, (poss 2019) when the transition from LM to WMT was happening.

 

The last few 150s were transferred in 2019 to Northern and were used between New Street and Shrewsbury freeing up 170s and 153s to other services and this is going to be set in 2019

 

You're very lucky. I'd have killed to experience that!

 

They were rare, London Midland only had a small handful after the class 172's arrived. At one point class 150's were banned from the Lickey incline.

I personally would not want to see a class 150, a class 170 is the class of DMU you would need alongside the class 323 in 2019.

 

And then you get a choice of LM/WMT and Cross Country liveries (currently some Chiltern and EMT liveries around here at the moment as TOC transfers).

 

They did that with WCL which was the main reason I never bought it. I personally don't want to see unrealistic layers unless they can be turned off. A class 150/2 in Regional Railways running alongside a WMR class 323 is a no for me. A unbranded cross country HST I would like to see though.

 

Why can't we have a voyager? That could then also be used in cathcart circle, great Western express and whatever else there is set in modern times that is relevant.

Ultimately, what ever is required for this route isn't going to happen. Same with Cathcart tbh.

 

They would only make a Voyager for a route where it could have a decent run. They aren't going to make one just for AI traffic. A am sure if a future route is released with a Voyager it might layer in.

For a Voyager to make sense on Cross City you would really have to extend the route down to Cheltenham at least as I imagine that is their first stop towards Bristol.

 

This is a VERY big stretch, but Cross Country's 170s always call at University on the Cardiff- Nottingham services. VERY rarely Voyagers sub in on that route, but it has happened. It's just extremely uncommon.

Other than that, a Voyager would need a proper route to stretch it's legs, being a 125mph express unit.

 

For all I know, BCC might have a DLC add on, though whatever they choose to model needs to appeal to customer's and If they make a 170, then they can model a 172 and a 357 which could possibly work on one of the 3rd rail routes already created like London Commuter maybe?

 

I am sure I read something about a class 196 being referenced or referred to, which is the DMU replacing the class 170's on the Shrewsbury and Hereford services but I can't see it now so maybe I dreampt it up!

But even that as DLC would feel a bit disappointing if we could only drive it to Bromsgrove unless DTG are planning a SEHS type "extension".

I hope there are DLC add-ons planned for it, although they seem to have stopped producing extra DLC for some reason. SOS is still crying out for at least a couple.

 

This is what I don't understand. Someone said it's a 2019 era release, though if 196's haven't started running or due to start running, how does that work?

 

I think it uses the timetable from 2019 as it was the busier pre-pandemic timetable, whether the actual route is set in 2019 visually or 2022 I know not. I think the Cross City is still using a reduced timetable currently as there are quite a few complaining about it.

 

They have said that the route itself is the 2022 December route (so updated signalling etc), but the timetable is the "busy 2019" one

 

Yeah used to be 20 minutes to Redditch and Bromsgrove, now back to the 30 minutes like it used to be before 323's served Bromsgrove and before Alvechurch was overhauled to a 2 platform passing loop.

 

That is even less frequent than I thought. The Cross City seems to be vying with the Snow Hill lines for the worst service in the West Midlands.

 

I used the line last xmas from Longbridge to New Street and seemed pretty good to me (who's used to GRV - CHX services which take 58 minutes to do less than 30 miles)

 

I have seen many complaints but maybe it gives an unfair impression of the service as I guess those who are satisfied don't complain.

I am generally not a complainer myself but my own experience catching trains from the half hourly served Langley Green in the evening means I have turned into one to the point where I am seriously thinking of buying a small car to commute in. Last Monday sitting in the cold for 45 minutes due to the train being cancelled again sitting in a rudemantary bus stop shelter on a windswept station with it raining stair rods all around, in the not nicest area, was the final straw.

Anyway back on topic I am glad they are using the older timetable as it should be quite a busy route even without the extra trains.

 

There's a big difference between those who use a service once and find it's good and those who rely on it to be working five or six days a week
I used to commute into London and know the pain of a failed or cancelled train, and that's in a region where there's supposedly a guaranteed every 10 minute service...

 

Functioning GSM-R? No, it's not the most important thing, but definitely adds a bit more immersion. Hopefully this gets back-ported to the other relevant rolling stock.

 

I'll wait and see the functionality of it, but it seems to be as much about the signaller contact then anything else.
I guess I was spoiled in TSC when you could actually register it (even if that is basically pushing a few buttons before setting off)

 

For me, I think this Birmingham Cross City route looks really good and I'm really looking forward to playing it. I love the idea that there can be various start/end points (i.e Redditch/Bromsgrove, Birmingham New Street, Four Oaks/Lichfield City/Lichfield Trent Valley) and it's a nice idea having the main station in the middle rather than at either end. The new traction is really interesting, i do hope there are some AI layers around New Street but maybe there will be, hopefully!

I'd personally have preferred the ECML (my number 1 wanted route is Peterborough to York), but I think this route will work nicely. Yes it could do with extra layers (and maybe there will be something announced next week on the article) but overall I'm excited for this route, it feels different to the previous UK routes and will definitely be giving it a chance.

 

Oh I'm sure it will, it'll just take them 2+ years to do so.

 

Re freight, I believe the maximum unassisted load for a single 66 is 1050 tonnes. Anything over that needs a banker.
This list abstracted from another source gives ballpark figures for older classes:
The Freight Train Loads book from May 1987 gives the following unassisted maximum loads (including loco)
20 450t
31 370t
33 470t
37/0 595t
37/4 695t
37/7 720t
45 650t
47 650t
50 650t
56 820t

It's not just about the trailing load but also coupler strengths which is why the train needs to be banked in the rear and not assisted from the front.

 

It looks good but is so close to being really good that it’s pretty annoying.

Having the depot and even static trains in New Street platforms would make such a difference.

As others have said, if they are using it as a start of a hub then fair enough in the long term but the empty large station is very immersion breaking & being able to complete the depot moves at the start and end of service adds so much.

 

Random question that came to mind when reading about the Soho omission: Are licensing or other permissions ever required to recreate places?

 

I know the trains themselves need to be licensed since they are moving objects. I think the track too, but I'm not sure. But I would assume dtg can recreate places if they have the license. Cuz you need a license to be able to create anything in the first place. Soho depot was not left out cuz of licensing, it was left out cuz dtg ran out of time.

 

If its the shape of a building or there are logos or other "IP-able matters" there then yes, but mostly no and I doubt anyone has copyrighted or trademarked the depot itself, or it's buildings

 

AFAIK, Cross Country no longer use HSTs (at least that was the case when I lived in Chesterfield and commuted between Chesterfield and Sheffield on XC trains that went via Birmingham and to/from the West Country). They use Voyagers, which aren’t currently in TSW.

 

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P89299/2022-11-04/detailed#allox_id=0
According to RTT HSTs 43321 and 43366 ran the Leeds to Plymouth this morning

 

They use them most days.

 

Nice, I live in Plymouth now so hopefully, I’ll get a HST next time I go to Chesterfield. Those Voyagers are nasty uncomfortable things, just like the IETs are.

At least we’ve got refurbished HSTs (now called Castle Class) running local services in Devon and Cornwall.

 

CrossCountry services are either really great or the worst thing in the world. I remember I took a HST back from Torquay (well, from Newton Abbot onwards) a few months ago and it was top class.

 

The HSTs are the best fleet Cross Country have. Their Voyagers are horrendous and their 170s have been ran into the ground.

 

Yes they are real workhorses to be fair and better than other trains out there. I traveled on one earlier from Stamford to Leicester on my way to Nottingham for the game tomorrow and for the 40 odd minutes I was on the train it was a very nice (my only issue was a very small amount of legroom, though I am 6'3'') and certainly did the job though like you say they are really being used intensely and showing some wear and tear.

 

Since we have passengers who fly up into the sky and disappear, then why not flying sharks too?

 

there are usually 2 services per day to/from Leeds using HSTs and 2 services to/from Edinburgh per day and there may be more running to Birmingham.

 

Yep, spent 5 hours on a Voyager down from Newcastle to Reading about 20 years ago; the last 2 hours going backwards from New Street after changing ends were one of the worst train journeys of my life

 

Voyagers are some of the best DMUs in the country imo. They're quick, extremely reliable considering the punishingly long services they run and they're quite comfortable. Yeah they're pretty miserable when overcrowded but what train isn't?

I had a run from Bristol down to Plymouth on one not long ago and it was one of the most relaxing journeys I've had all year. I'm so sick of people treating them like they're Satan's chariots.

 

I always try to avoid them when possible

 

Good point and here's a Class 60 TEA tanker making Lickey incline Northbound unassisted. Video dates to June 10th, 2021 UK date format 10 June 2021.

Class 37 Rail Tour Class 150 Network Rail HST & the mentioned Class 60

For Class 60 it has a trade-off between Tractive Effort vs Hp than class 66. In order to get 105k lbf Class 60 loses 2,000 hp 3,100 hp than a class 66 3,300 hp which loses 14k lbf tractive effort 91k lbf.

 

If not crowded then they are fine, better than the rancid Hitachi 8xx's. The problem lies with the fact they were specified as 4 and 5 car units to replace HSTs and 8 coach loco hauled trains. Increasing the service frequency doesn't help if passengers don't stagger their journeys or you get loads of people wanting a service to Scotland which is a 4 car 220.

It's the same mistake Regional Railways made when replacing 5 or 6 coach loco hauled sets with 2 car Sprinters.