PC Tsw 3 Spirit Of Steam- Pressure Problem

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Trainiac, Sep 7, 2022.

  1. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Is it just me who feels like the boiler pressure drops too quickly in both the Jubilee & 8f? After trying the Jubilee I felt that even at a full 75% on the reverser and 18% on the regulator to start the pressure dropped much faster than it did in TSW 2. (It was the same situation that occurred with the 8f as well)
    Any thoughts?
     
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  2. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

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    I have noticed there have been some changes to the firing (as I tend to play on manual) with it now being more challenging, Just means need to drive more economically. Yes in your case running in full 75% reverser will use pressure fast as is full gear can say, meaning more steam is used to create more power. As you speed up you need to slowly reduce this in stages. I aim to be at 25% cutoff at around 20mph, and only increase above that if going up a steep grade and have alot of pressure. You will then find you will go faster as you have reduced how far the piston needs to travel and how much steam used.

    I have noticed with the firing both dampers need to be fully open most of the time and fire (add coal) alot more often, sometimes even constantly when working hard or want to go faster. I will need to play on auto fireman for awhile to see how it reacts now.
     
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  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    In TSW2 it was recommended to take reverser below 20% with both dampers open to keep steam pressure nominal, even at low speeds. This is of course entirely contrary to how we have driven steam locos in previous sims or indeed in real life but seems to be the TSW way.
     
  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’ve just played my first service in TSW3 with the Jubilee (PS5) with automatic fireman. The steam pressure just plummets but then I could let it build up again and with the exact same reverser and regulator settings as when it dropped before keep it high like I was able to in TSW2. Something has changed for TSW3 and it isn’t good.

    It’s not acting consistently at all. Same reverser and regulator settings giving different amounts of pressure drop, either hardly any or a massive loss. Nothing in between. Something’s not right with the firing.

    I did notice the fireman stopped using the blower after a while as well

    I also noticed there are two different sounds for the safety valve now which fluctuated from one to the other and the sound could be intermittent. Very odd.
     
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  5. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt or DTG Jamie Do you know if any intentional changes were made to the SoS fireing/boiler control? It seems like its become more challenging in TSW3 and not sure if this is an intended change or not. I have seen a few other threads on the topic and messages also saying simular.
     
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  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As you've tagged Matt and Jamie, probably as good a place as any to ask why the AI or other cause SPAD's are still occurring on freight services departing Gresty over the Independent Lines. This was reported extensively from the original release so surely should have been captured and fixed for a "flagship" part of TSW3?
     
  7. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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    Not sure whats happened, thank you for flagging , will pass it on to the team and will investigate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2022
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  8. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    So, I've just bought Spirit of Steam TSW3.

    I don't use the word broken lightly but things do seem to be broken in regards to the simulation of steam here.

    1. I ran the same journey in both TSW2 and TSW3 with the 8F, the pressure drops far quicker in TSW3, so quickly that I cannot believe this is correct.
    2. In both TSW3 and TSW2 the blower seems to reduce not increase steam generation like it should.
    3. In TSW3 opening the dampers seems to reduce not increase steam generation, this is not correct.
     
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  9. Using the old method 20% reverser and 100% regulator, boiler pressure drops a lot faster than in tsw2 but after a mile or 2 boiler pressure starts to build up again.

    Maybe it's a bit more realistic as at a standstill the fireman will stop feeding the fire then when you get moving the fresh coal will take a moment to to start burning?
     
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  10. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

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    I think the problem is that the dampers are now decreasing the steam generation rate, rather than increasing it.
    If you set a combination of cutoff and regulator such that pressure is steady and then open the dampers what happens? I saw the pressure start to drop which is the opposite of what I would expect to happen.
    I think this is why I am running out of steam so quickly.
     
  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Basically it's a rubbish simulation of steam physics.
     
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  12. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    The physics were never rubbish, to begin with but clearly something unexpected went wrong when the port was made.
     
  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Compared to the better steam locos in TSC or MSTS, the physics in TSW2 were fairly poor but it sounds like they have gone from bad to worse.
     
  14. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    I'm not 100% sure how the 8f and Jubilee are supposed to work in real life but for someone like me who has never had an experience with steam trains before I honestly thought they were quite good and matched up to how I'd expect them to operate in my head, if what you say about the original physics is true then I guess it does need serious improvement
     
  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    A real driver of a Jubilee played it on TSW2 and said the behaviour was pretty realistic, and now it is vastly different. I don’t believe it’s possible for the pressure to drop so quickly with 15% cut-off as it does now. There’s something different with the safeties as well if the sound is to be believed.
     
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  16. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    Yep something definately got worse in the update to TSW3

    Steam/smoke is just one really bright white texture instead of the nicer grey multi-shaded puffs in TSW2 and when you go through an occluded section like tunnels all the steam comes through the front of the cab and the roof.

    Steam pressure is acting really weirdly, it's dropping really rapidly when you're using it, and rising super quickly when it's not being used.

    The best you can do is close firebox, open blower*, close dampers to try to stop steam generation. To increase, open front and rear dampers, open firebox and close blower*. If you can survive on 20% cut off you shouldn't lose too much of the steam chest. T

    *Inverse of reality go figure.
     

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  17. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    The other day I tried to do a service on TSW 3 version and was very disappointed. They said they were going to keep working on steam to improve it, and not only have they not done that, but they've made it so much worse that it's practically unplayable now.
     
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  18. ollyweston350

    ollyweston350 Active Member

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    Have definitely noticed a difference in how steam chest pressure works. It sounds daft, but this is most noticeable now because even sat there in a station with the safety's blowing off, you can reduce pressure just by whistling.

    Tried doing a express run from Liverpool to crewe last night. I barely made it up the gradient even with cut off at 20% it drained the chest completely meaning a painfully slow crawl of about 8.7mph. Hopefully we'll get an answer
     
  19. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    ^^ This!

    Just tried SoS on the Jub again in TSW3. Can anyone in DTG confirm they're aware of the steam physics being completely err.. broken?

    DTG's flagship entry into steam on TSW, which was plugged in the media is now very sadly a horrendous experience.

    Is this something that changed in core? Open dampers & blowers on cause a huge loss of steam - the inverse of what should be happening. It is actually undrivable now because you cannot generate enough steam unless your cutout is under 20% - which means you can't accelerate.

    Oddly when you're stationary steam pressure rises very rapidly. Sorry for the ping TrainSim-Matt but I feel very strongly about these problems, I'd actually prefer it if I got the TSW2 version of SoS back until the fireman is developed fully!
     
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  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely Bescot. I have no intention of even trying SoS in TSW3 until this is addressed. The steam performance wasn't that great in TSW2 but at least you could finish the run albeit with the cutoff at a ridiculously low value.

    I do also wonder if this is why news on any further steam development (be it route or additional loco/stock pack) has gone almost silent.
     
  21. After a short period the steam pressure starts to stabilise. You can blast along at 20% reverser building pressure no problem.
     
  22. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    Matt did confirm in the recent let’s play stream that he was aware of the pressure problems and would mark it up with the team. Hopefully they get a fix out asap as I’ve stopped playing Spirit of Steam until it’s fixed and I’m eager to jump back into it.
     
  23. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    Please don't defend it dangerousdave - it's totally unrealistic. Takes forever to get to the 'blasting along at 20% cutout stage', and it only applies once you finally get to up to linespeed - then the bloody safety's go off lol
     
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  24. I ain't defending it lol just saying it does get better. I think that maybe when standing in a station the fire is going to cool down a little. Then once you get going the heat will build up again, which takes a little while. Next time I'm over at the railway I'll ask one of the drivers and see what he thinks about it.
     
  25. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    Only recently started playing this, was wondering why I couldn't get up to speed (although I am a noob to steam driving).

    On the plus side, I think the scenery is v nice, clearly a lot of work has gone into this. Distant scenery can be done well in TSW.....
    Amazed also at the vast array of different signalling, nice work there...even some approach control I believe?...
    Definitely needs more AI, however.
     
  26. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    Just dropped by to ask if TSW3 + SoS was worth buying yet. Thanks for this thread... I'll come back in a couple of months for a user opinion update :)
     
  27. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    FTFY...
    I just don't think Simugraph (sorry nearly typed Simudrive!) is quite up to the expectations so far as steam physics is concerned, not a patch on what can be experienced in TSC or even MSTS stuff in OR. As I said previously, given the hype around SoS at the time and even allowing for the fact they were all working on TSW3, still surprising there hasn't been anything else - no DLC for the UK route, another UK route nice little branch line or something, or Germany and the USA.
     
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  28. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, there hasn't been any DLC whatsoever from DTG since Spirit of Steam. The only DLC released between SoS and TSW3 was Isle of Wight 2022. Hopefully the first roadmap of TSW3 will reveal, or at least hint at more steam content. Steam content needs to be released in regular rotation with everything else - I'd rather not see releases be 90% plastic, modern stuff and 10% historical content.
     
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  29. Chuske

    Chuske New Member

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    Just bought this and get the impression this is still and issue? Or am I just not used to new physics? Find it hard to believe that such low reverser settings would be needed at low speed and that the safeties would lift constantly at high speed on full regulator.
     
  30. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    Still is but DTG are aware of the problem and working on it. Hopefully they'll have some news soon because I'm holding off driving the Jubilee or 8F because of it.
     
  31. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Still an issue, fix coming soon I think the team have done most of it now I just need to catch up with them and find out what's left.

    Matt.
     
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  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Basically still broken (see Matt has confirmed above) - at the moment sad to say steam in TSW not worth bothering with. If you want a kettle fix, best off heading over to TSC and firing (no pun intended) something up over there - Bossman on Welsh Marches perhaps.
     
  33. Chuske

    Chuske New Member

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    Thanks Matt, will look forward to it! Good to know you are on the case.
     
  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    All we really need (well perhaps it's a big all) is for Simugraph to match how these locos perform in TSC. Is it too much to ask for the devs to run side by side and arrive at the optimum solution?
     
  35. Bertil Persson

    Bertil Persson Active Member

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    For the time being we'll have to run steam trains on TSW 2 to get good performance. Thanks Matt! You also confirmed the ongoing work on the roadmap stream. It would be fun if we eventually get a steam rail tour up the Lickey Incline, when the fix comes out.
     
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  36. Bertil Persson

    Bertil Persson Active Member

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    I was hoping for a steam train rail tour up the Lickey incline. Now I hear that the diesels were chosen due to the boiler pressure bug and that there were banking engines added in real. Daisy told us yesterday that she did try the option. Matt also confirmed that a fix IS coming. Good to know but hard to wait! When the fix comes I’ll try it on Scenario Planner.
     
  37. Bertil Persson

    Bertil Persson Active Member

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    I tried the Jubilee Class on The Lickey Incline. 5 mph, but I made it! When the power fix comes, DTG can make a rail tour.
     
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  38. Chuske

    Chuske New Member

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    Wondering if fixes coming for this yet? Last time I tried spirit of steam I had an 8F going 120mph with the regulator off and safety valves lifting... so seemed plagued with high speed issues both with air resistance too low and the steam pressure problems.

    DTG Matt seemed to think fixes were imminent in October, hope we get soon news soon
     
  39. Bertil Persson

    Bertil Persson Active Member

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    In the latest roadmap stream, Matt said they were a far bit nearer to release the patch. I think it’s in testing, not to destroy anything else.
     
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  40. Chuske

    Chuske New Member

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    Thanks Bertil I really see the potential of this DLC, glad to hear the patch is coming, fingers crossed they find a way to sort the issues fully
     
  41. waynedaniele

    waynedaniele New Member

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    This is of course entirely contrary to how we have driven steam locos in previous sims or indeed in real life but seems to be the TSW way.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2022
  42. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    Yup i can confirm that there is a quite excessive boiler pressure drop no matter what reverser & regulator position/settings.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2022
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  43. Bertil Persson

    Bertil Persson Active Member

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    I have now tried the Steam engines after the long awaited fix update, and they work much better, almost as TSW 2. There's a dip in the pressure up to 10 mph, but at higher speed it comes back. Matt confirmed the issue, and said that this is a partial fix and there are more adjustments coming. See the latest roadmap stream. It's good that they're almost done, because that will be needed when the Steam Railtour come to the Cornwall DLC.
     
  44. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Yeh the steam is much improved. However it is still lacking fundamental control of the pressure.

    Until we have control of the water and can monitor the size of the fire, the experience is unrewarding. I cannot stand the constant safety valve noise.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
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