Class 323

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by .battalion., Nov 6, 2022.

  1. .battalion.

    .battalion. Active Member

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    So, I just wanted to say thank you to all the developers who created/still creating this route and train. I suggested this back in 2020, even if you did not see this request, it definitely made my day knowing that this BCC route is coming to TSW3. I just want to say a few things:

    The model of the class 323 looks superb, can't wait to replace it with the 465's (Custom 323 WMR Livery, Made a scenario from Ebbesfleet to Pancras driving the class 465...)

    The motor sounds.... at first, i though the acceleration motor sounds were off, but Daisy, who worked with the class 323's for 7 years, sent me an audio tape of the class 323 in Notch 1, and i definitely had second thoughts, so I apologise for thinking otherwise. I just want to point out though, that the deceleration motor sounds a bit.. off.. i can't really explain why it sounds off, but if i listen to a real-life class 323 decelerating, it sounds a bit different to the TSW3 one. That's basically why I am here, wanting to let you know that it sounds funky..

    BNS... it's going to be very empty, which is quite unfortunate, but I am hoping that we can have most platforms in scenario mode.

    Thank you!
     
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  2. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Yea, with how complex the 323 sounds are, there are going to be differences in audio and some funkiness, but I'll still love driving the 323 regardless
     
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  3. .battalion.

    .battalion. Active Member

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    Agreed, I can’t wait honestly. “A watched pot never boils” someone once told me, the days are taking so damn long
     
  4. andyscotland

    andyscotland Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe they're only releasing it with one train. Might make it a sale job for me tbh which s a shame cuz I'm a brummy so I'm excited about the route but one train is unforgiveable, especially if new street is as dead as people are saying it might be. I'd want a class 172 ideally but I reckon they should layer n the 166 at least because that wouldn't be that unrealistic I guess.
     
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  5. Class 730 with 2023 updated timetable needs to be a DLC next year folks it would be nice to see the replacement train added lets hope dovetail know do the right thing also the class 66 will be one of the layers as its on TSC route
     
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  6. .battalion.

    .battalion. Active Member

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    I wouldn’t mind the class 170.. Nottingham to Derby?
     
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  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    This DLC needs... a DLC to add more route and more trains!
     
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  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The class 166 would be very unrealistic! The closest you would see them is Worcester.

    If they added in unrealstic layers you couldn't turn off that would be another DLC I wouldn't be purchasing.
     
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  9. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    I think I read the timetable is based on 2018 or 2019? Many Wolverhampton-Walsall and New St - International shuttles were still being diagrammed as 323s. Hopefully we'll at least get these as AI to pad out New St-Proof House & Aston a little.

    The motors sound great in that short clip btw, maybe a little odd when stopping - can't quite put my finger on why - the pitch is slightly high perhaps?

    Very fond memories of these units, it'll be sad to see them go from the Midlands. I joined BR a few years prior to them being introduced. At that time we had an eclectic mix of 304, 310s and ex LTS 308 and 312 units bouncing down to Redditch - but thanks to Daisy and DTG I'll be able to drive the 323s after they're long gone from our region.
     
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  10. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately new trains require time to make. 3d model, sounds, physics, timetable that takes several months. Dtg most likely didn't have time to make another train. More trains = more dev time.
     
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  11. andyscotland

    andyscotland Well-Known Member

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    Arguably they should've put back the release date then, people wll only buy so many sparse routes before they throw the towel in. I believe there's a new train sim coming too so all the more reason to make a route the very best it can be.
     
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  12. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    People aren’t just going to jump ship because a new sim comes along, the same thing has been said a few times.

    DTG just aren’t going to start including multiple new trains in routes, the best you can hope for is loco DLC’s coming alongside routes, or new liveries on existing stock.
     
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  13. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's quite clear that people wants more variety in available trains and more density in AI traffic, so maybe DTG should consider to fulfil that needs and earn some good money on it?

    Maybe they should create a team/department that would be solely focused on delivering new locos/EMUs/DMUs/wagons only?
    Question is if such business model would be accepted by the customers. On example of BCC - if you would know that the route comes only with Class 323, but in the few coming months there will be few more trains delivered as separate DLCs for which you would had to pay additionally those 5 GBP/EUR/USD - would you do it?

    I'm just asking rhetorically as I this thread is about completely other subject. I wonder though if DTG has ever make any market research about such approach to DLCs creation and sell.
     
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The issue isn't just time, it's money. DTG very obviously have concluded that at current prices, it isn't affordable to develop more than one new loco for a route. Adding an existing train is OK, since it doesn't have to be developed, but we haven't seen a route with more than one all-new train since the very earliest TSW1 routes (Sand Patch, Great Western and West Somerset) - except for SoS, and that one was definitely an exception to the usual development guidelines.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2022
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  15. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Also, within the scope of the route the class 323 is THE train that runs the route and building any other new trains is not going to really be worthwhile as they would only use a short part of the route and Bromsgrove isn't really a fitting "end point" for any services apart from the Cross City services.

    It could be the basis of some very interesting extensions in the future.
     
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  16. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Loco dlcs won't be $5 especially if they are new locos not in the game. The reason why the locos in the bundle were $5 is cuz we already had those in game and they didn't have to "remake it". Loco dlcs will be their usual $19.99 unless dtg raise the price due to inflation and stuff and other reasons.
     
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  17. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather we get another route where stock can be layered back onto Cross City, most other trains seen wouldn't get a very good run on the route as it's only really the Class 323 that runs the majority of services the full length of the line with durations over 30 minutes.
     
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  18. andyscotland

    andyscotland Well-Known Member

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    It should definitely be built on as a hub for sure. I think in the interim a route between brum/bromsgrove joining onto the gwr route somewhere maybe Reading? And then you could potentially build brum to great malvern which is mentioned on the gwr timetable and make that lnk. For me the game needs a hub and why not Birmingham? The London routes have no commonality or sense of being something 'networky' about them
     
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  19. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Until DTG confirms otherwise, I assume all routes will remain standalone and will never become part of a network. I suggest you all do so.

    It's better to be pessimistic and get pleasantly surprised then continual disappointment and let downs with an optimistic outlook
     
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  20. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Well-Known Member

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    For me personally, the presence of one train on this route does not cause problems. If it is well-executed and there is a busy schedule, this will be enough at this stage.
    Looking at the experience of the TS, I expect that in the future we can get more rolling stock on the route and even integrate this route with another route through Birmingham. We must be patient. We cannot have everything at once.
     
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  21. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Well-Known Member

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    Something else worries me. From the route announcement video, I came to the conclusion that the wrong color of the livery was applied to the train. Contrast and tints of colors yellow and orange are not correct. This needs to be corrected.
    upload_2022-11-8_10-28-55.png

    upload_2022-11-8_10-30-10.png
     
  22. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    The light seems far too bright from the sun, yet this has been reworked apparently for TSW3
     
  23. deeuu#6908

    deeuu#6908 Well-Known Member

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    What I really like is the assumption that just because a person thinks that their opinion of something is true for them, it's also true for others.
    Never fails to amaze me.
     
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  24. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    While the new WMT orange is bright and flat, the 323s are painted in a lighter metallic version, almost a bit more gold, so it's far more reactive in the light and will certainly look different between sunny and cloudy days; might be a factor.
     
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  25. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    *Personal view/opinion*
    I do feel they have missed a trick though. Soho Depot not included, it really isn't far away either. I also don't see how New Street can be populated, you would feel with TSW3 being the flagship simulator, a new approach to possibly charging more but offering more variety, especially with a DLC that works similarly to the German Loco's, so perhaps a 170 as an example due to its large usage on the British network.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
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  26. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, even though they're supposedly now totally standalone, if they'd done the 170 before it had a 'home' route, people would complain about having nowhere to use it. We don't yet know enough about the BCC DLC to judge how short of expectations it will fall, or what else is in the pipeline to pad/extend it. I find it hard to believe that they've gone through the whole process of researching and building the BCC route and nobody at DTG has even considered the 170 or extra traffic. It MUST be in the plan somewhere, even if they're not mentioning it.
     
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  27. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The 170 could have formed the basis for a 171 and layered in on BML for peak Uckfield services or maybe ECW.
     
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  28. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I guess it still could (and hopefully DTG are paying attention), though I'm not sure BML needs any more layers; it brings a PS5 to its knees at various points in the journey as it is!
     
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  29. andyscotland

    andyscotland Well-Known Member

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    Much like those folk who voted brexit and think they speak for the rest of us then haha
     
  30. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    They'll be the same people wondering why the UK economy has gone to crap and they can no longer afford to buy new DLC!
     
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  31. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    My feeling is exactly opposite to yours, but in the begining of my TSW2 adventure I was sharing the same opinion as you.

    For me, it wasn't the problem on ECW, but there you are mostly running through two-track scenery.
    But on Cathcart Circle it started to be, especially on Glasgow. Then I've started German content and HRR with layers populated from MSB and DB101 DLC and it make me change my mind.

    If I compare pretty simple route like HRR where I have freight trains with 2 or 3 different consists configuration, IC services, Dostos services and two communter services served by EMUs with pure HRR with just two EMUs - then it's definitely more pleasant experience if I see variety in trains running there. The route feels alive and much more closer to real one. When I tried HRR with just DB422 and DB425 it was like driving through a desert - so many tracks and nothing on it, not even a static stock.

    Personally, I'm afraid BCC would be the same experience for me as BML on PS4, where there's a lot of traffic, but only two layers. I've done about 100 services on BML on PS4 and I can't stand to look at 377 and 387 anymore ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
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  32. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    It’s not really fair to use DE content as a comparison, all the routes we have for DE are from the DB era, where they are one ToC and have a pretty consistent fleet of units.

    GB content is much harder, because the vast majority of routes have multiple ToC’s, and there isn’t really much consistency in rolling stock.

    A populated WCML is going to need various licences and rolling stock to be accurate, 2 of those being WMT & southern.

    Personally I’d rather have the smaller routes come first before seeing chunks of the WCML, after all, what would the point be in arriving into BHM on a 390 without any WM traffic there? It may not be perfect, but it makes more sense for a local commuter route to be missing IC trains, than an IC route missing all the local stock along the way.

    What I will say is that there is now various bits of rolling stock which needs new liveries, so these can be utilised.
     
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  33. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    That's absolutely right.

    As I've been saying for goodness knows how long, there's no indication that DTG has any plans to expand, extend or in any way add on to its existing, current or future routes.

    So all these posters that talk about this route becoming the hub of an ever- expanding network are just engaging in wishful thinking, or " whistling Dixie " as we say in these parts.
     
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  34. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

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    I don't meant that, it was not my intension to compare DE content against UK content and pointing out that one is better than another.

    What I meant is simply that I like as much variety in AI trains and dense traffic as possible and would like to see such on UK content, but I understand it's much more complicated due to many more TOCs in UK.

    Now that the details about layers and timetable for BCC was revealed I'll watch some streams to check how it looks in-game, because still has some worries that it might be as BML on PS4, but with occasional Class 66 or HST passing by.
     
  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Of course, this is an issue DTG could circumvent with vintage British Rail routes.....
     
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  36. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Bcc will give you access to all the layers assuming you have the dlcs even on last gen consoles. It's in the timetable deep dive article
     

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