Partial Stuttering Fix!

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by solicitr, Nov 9, 2022.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Whether it's Unreal, or DTG's implementation, TSW (all versions) does a LOT of page-filing: virtual "memory," where the computer offloads data from physical RAM and writes it to your storage device recalling it as needed.

    Now, if you have a high-end SSI on a PCIe bus, this probably isn't an issue. But if you are using a hard drive, or an SSI on a SATA bus, this process is orders of magnitude slower than modern RAM's r/w cycle. It causes stutters. The solution is simple: turn off pagefiling (or change your VM allotment to 0). Now, I wouldn't recommend this to anyone who just has 8 GB of physical RAM- you'll almost certainly get an OOM crash - but if you are running 16 or more this HUGELY reduces the frequency and severity of stuttering in TSW.
     
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  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    How does one do that?
     
  3. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    I installed my TSW3 in a nvme SSD, will this procedure also benefited me?
     
  4. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    If you Google’Turn off Virtual Memory in Windows 10’ you should find a command to do it (Sorry can’t post a link at the moment).

    You’ll need to run it in a command prompt as administrator to do it. You can also do it in Control Panel somewhere but this resets on every reboot for me.

    In practice on my laptop with a 3060 and 16 Gb of memory, it hasn’t made a noticeable difference. But I am using an SSD, all be it a slow one. If you’re running a hard drive, definitely worth a try.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
  5. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    It's neither of those. Applications have no control over where their memory page actually are, nor have they any say in when they pagges gets offloaded to a page file. It is all the responsibility of the OS.

    If you have enough ram, then pages that are actively used should never end up in the page file.
     
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  6. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    DTG JD

    Can DTG please fix this
     
  7. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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  8. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    The recent fix seems not to solve it. Some of the comments on the forums:
    "Regarding "Reduced Micro-stuttering across the game"
    Try an ICE3 on any Dresden - Riesa - Service. Still bad stuttering, up to 3 seconds duration(!), every few seconds. Annoying as hell
    On a Core i9 with a 3080TI on a M2 SSD"
     
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  9. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    It will have improved some instances, but as mentioned, it's not a silver bullet and there is more work to do.
     
  10. I've noticed recently I'm getting stutters when objects render? Has anyone else noticed this or maybe it's just coincidence.
     
  11. Message to JD i can say the shutters are still there but its way way better now at the start of a trip all gone no more shutter but i can say that this issue has been fixed many times in the past and when a new patch comes always around 1 or 2 patches later it brakes the patch that fixes the shutters so i hope this time it dont do that because at this pint i can say its the best TSW Exp i have had in a long time when i comes to spikes shutting no going on as bad as it has and im on a high end pc
     
  12. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    having enough RAM and setting up VM on your computer is not a task for DTG. As far as stutter is caused by laoding new tiles in the game, I think you can do three things to improve:

    1. Make sure to have enough RAM in your computer (16 Gb or more).
    2. Use a very fast disk for the game data, an SSD instead of a magnetic drives makes some difference, but the fastest Samsung drive your computer can handle is best.
    3. Using a processor with a lot of cache memory also may help.
    I think your graphics card is less relevant, because most delay is caused by disk access, which always is relatively slow.

    What DTG can do is make you load less stuff, but this may reduce de number of details in the route you play.

    It may be possible that the way assets are loaded have influence as well. If you do not unload assets that are still needed for the next tile, this may help. I assume the Unreal engine will handle this.
     
  13. Do you think if dtg added the nvidia resizable bar and amd equivalent it would help matters? I have a nvme drive connected to the North bridge which should be the fastest possible but it don't seem to make a lot of difference. With tsw2 I used a mod to enable resizable bar that seemed to help a lot but tsw3 won't play ball.
     
  14. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Having a decent PC with enough RAM does not work for TSW since it will always stutter because of bad optimization
     
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  15. I think dtgs main concern should be this stutter. They say they are looking into it, it's a tile loading/ unloading issue. Resizable bar gives the gpu direct access to the memory which is where the problem is apparently. I think all the games I've had over the years that are poorly optimised only suffer from low frame rates, not stuttering?
     
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  16. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    TSW is a very strange game. Something is wrong. This stuttering needs to be number 1 priority for DTG until it is much better or fixed.
     
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  17. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    I don´t own TSW 3 and very likely never will, but in TSW 2 with ReBAR active, on a 3070 ad from an NVME drive, both on DX 11 and DX12, on Windows 10 and 11 and the stuttering is there and annoying every time.
    I´ve seen it on PCs with 3090 graphics card so I can only conclude that it´s not us that need to tweak something.
    ReBAR is a feature of the PCIE standard which means it works in every game without the developer having to do anything.

    The only other game in which I´ve seen heavy stuttering is OMSI 2 but that is a dated 32b game which has no idea about new technology.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
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  18. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    yeah, tsw3 will stutter on all hardware, it's a massive core issue and only DtG can fix it. People who claim they have no stutter are just blind to it or ignore it
     
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  19. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea. What are you talking about?
     
  20. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Essentially there is nothing wrong. It is inherent to the huge amount of assets to load during gameplay. Many games use a loading screen and separate parts of the world in this way. A train simulator is fairly unique, you need to load a new tile in full sight of the game play. So you really need to do it as fast as possible. I do not agree that DTG did a bad optimization job, contrary they do an amazing job on the topic. They have done a lot and are still doing more to reduce the issue, but it is unfair to state they are incompetent. It just is a very difficult issue to solve. Bets solution is to use one very big tile and load it all at once, but then 99.999% of the player base can no longer play the game. This game is at the edges of the balance between performance and what we wish to see. So be happy with what you get and what is working, like very long trains and a relatively detailed landscape and forgive DTG for the more negative side. This is technology and, in contrast to what people expect, in technology not everything is possible.
     
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  21. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    That's just wrong.
    If it is due to asset loading then it's still bad design and bad optimization by DTG since many other train, flight and truck sims (that actually look better then TSW) don't have this problem and they also need to load huge number of assets.

    There is nothing special about TSw. Neither does it offer ground breaking graphics not does it do anything else unique.

    Countless other games and simulators and even train sims show that it can be done without stuttering issues on even high end hardware.

    So yes, TSW has a problem that needs to be fixed.
    DTG is even working on fixing the stuttering so they basically acknowledge that there is an issue ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2022
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  22. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    Rudolf's reply is hilarious.

    Microsoft Flight Simulator is the best proof one can have that high quality and quantity of assets can be put together without stuttering.
    But, we already know from DTG itslef that they are not Microsoft so therefore TSW is not Flight Simulator.

    Pardon everyone for wanting a product the way it should be, the way even the developer wants it to be but doesn't know how to reach that stage.
     
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  23. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    You don't even need to compare it to MSFS.
    Compare it to Zusi, Hmmm sim, ETS, Xplane, ATS, Aerofly, TramSim. Many of them developed by small teams or a single person

    None of them have this constant periodic stuttering like TSW
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2022
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  24. Cotax

    Cotax Well-Known Member

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    Situation is very simple. There are massive perfromance issues. They are not hardware related. People have monster hardware and it still stutters. Friend has i9-13900K @ 5.8ghz and M2 SSD with 7gbps + 3090 rtx and it stutters the same as on mine r7 5800x with 3060ti. Sure, he gets higher FPS, but stutters are the same. This is clear indications that the implementation is poorly optimised - and developers need to take a look at it, study it,improve it and test it a lot. That's everything - someone (who knows what is doing) need to devote his/hers time to this and make optimizations. Lately there are movement in this, so i hope we can have improvements soon. Sttutering is a massive dealbraker for me - it's annoying and it's making me nervous while playing. It's not very realistic when game is hanging itself for a few milisecond (some seconds even sometimes) and sounds interupting etc..
     
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  25. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    constant Stuttering in a train sim is basically a deal breaker. DTG Matt does DTG know what knobs to turn to fix the stuttering issues?
    And if you know, why was this not fixed before the TSW3 release?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2022
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  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Probably not; your read/write to "disk" is already very fast.
     
  27. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Well-Known Member

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    Well they obviously don't otherwise those knobs would've been turned. You don't have to comment for the sake of commenting, I think the vast majority of users on this forum are well aware of how upset you are with the state of the game, but let's try keep our complaints and comments productive.
     
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  28. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    That cant be true since in the last patch they released a first (very small) fix for the stuttering so they seem to be aware what is causing it. This is why i asked about it. So they are aware about it maybe only since a few weeks? Thats why I asked.
     
  29. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Seems like there are likely to be be several different causes, both inside and outside the game: software optimization, disk access (both direct and via virtual memory), various combinations of GPU and drivers, shader compilation pauses....

    DTG can, and hopefully will, do their best to fix what's under their control; but unlike the various derail bugs, some of this is in the user space, where DTG is pretty helpless.
     
  30. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Dtg will continue to make incremental improvements to the performance whenever they can do that. It might be a while but it's better than nothing
     
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  31. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    You have to believe in Santa Claus :(
     
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  32. Do you still get stuttering?

    I am thinking higher performance graphics card and cpu but I don't think they will make any difference.

    I moved my install to a SSD but still getting same stutters...
     
  33. j.elkroc

    j.elkroc Member

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    I'm new to TS3 (flight sim convert). While it looks great and has good FPS on my system, the stutter is appalling at high speeds. I almost feel a crash to desktop coming at any time. It hasn't yet though. And the interface is a bit confusing on where to start for a train noob. I am resourceful and will figure it all out, but man what an overwhelming bunch of learning at one time.
    System is i9 9900KF 32GB 3060/12GB.
     
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  34. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    You won't 100% get rid of the stuttering I'm afraid, end of.
     
  35. I found that after running a route for the first time, stuttering almost completely disappears. I ran high speed LGV today and this is the case.

    The first time you play a route it will stutter....
     
  36. j.elkroc

    j.elkroc Member

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  37. On desktop click nvidia settings and set to performance. Power for example, use max performance.
    Also if allow screen tearing it will improve performance. Less quality, less stutters.
     
  38. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was my imagination but I thought I was noticing less to far less micro stuttering on xsx
     
  39. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    XSX = XBox Series X
    XSS = XBox Series S
    XB1 = XBox One
    XBS or XB1S = XBox One S
    XBX or XB1X = XBox One X
     
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  40. Thanks!
     

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