PC Birmingham Cross City Line First Thoughts

I have no objection to £30. But…

It doesn’t change the fact that before the price increases you were asking me to pay roughly the same as the UK Price once converted and now you’re asking me to pay £40 converted. To me that does not seem fair or reasonable. So on principle I can’t support this.

I’m gradually ditching Steam and shifting to XBox so as long as the pricing stays closer to actual exchange rates there and the Game Pass Discount remains, then I’ll get this DLC. But what has happened to the Steam pricing leaves a bad taste and you will not get anymore money from me on that platform. I’m not paying a 25% premium just because DTG / Steam think my country should pay more.

 

Hey DTG JD just a quick reminder but can you get back to us regarding the light baking issues around the Birmingham New Street area please? Thank you.

 

Greetings JD,

A little complaint first, you haven't responded to any of the queries posted on the thread -
Non Uniform Increment In Price ( For Everyone Outside The UK )

Please try to respond to it so that everyone feels included.

We have a saying in my native language which translates to, 'Why afraid of a storm, when you're halfway through it'.

The point I'm trying to make is that players outside of the UK are already facing a much larger increment than those in the UK. So the damage is already done. Why are you guys worried about damage control now ? Just fix the currencies, one at a time.

With all respect, I fail to understand how hard is that...

You guys already have the prices before the matrix revision ( If not, check them on SteamDB ).

1. Let's say the price of a regular DLC was 'X' before the matrix revision.
2. To calculate its 20 percent, multiply it by 0.2 so the value will be ( 'X' * 0.2 ). Let this value be 'Y'.
3. As you want to increase by 20 percent, so add the values ( 'X' + 'Y' ). Let this number be 'Z'.
4. Update this value 'Z' in your database. Rinse and repeat for all currencies, one at a time.

What's the difficulty in that ? 2nd graders in my country do that stuff !

• In case your staff is overloaded, let me know. I'll post the calculations here on the forum.
• In case you people are struggling with mathematics, let me know. I'll voluntarily arrange a WebEx Call and help you guys with the calculations. ( Be assured, I won't scold you folks for mistakes like typical math teachers XD )

And in any case, looking forward to some clarifications on the thread mentioned above.

Cheers.

 

It matters as much as yours, surely!

 

Totally agree with London Midland's review of the Stream. Overall the team did a great job here - especially with the implementation of the features and toys on the 323. I hope, future trains and locos will have similar detail to them.

Many thanks, and a well done to Daisy for all of her research and input, and a great (what I'd imagine to be nerve-wracking) appearance on the stream. You were great!

I would like to know whether the scenario planner has paths on the fast lines from Barnt Green to Kings Norton to other platforms at BHM?

 

The way I see it is, £30 seems like a "big jump" but imo it's no surprise inflation rates, wages etc, I'd spend £30+ plus on a takeaway, which I woud enjoy for what? 10-15 minutes? Yet £30 for a DLC where I will get hours of enjoyment from.

I'm not going to argue what's right or wrong with the route as I dont know it well enough.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but I bet 80% of the people saying "it's a rip off" or "it's disgusting charging that" will buy it anyway.

 

Could we have a single 'its a rip off' thread please? The price rise is emotive, yes but it's getting to the point where the point hijacks other threads. Someone even posted about in a discussion about the raildriver interface ffs.

 

I apologize, if you feel that way !
I created a thread with a lot of other members pooling their thoughts, with no response from any DTG staff.

So cross-contamination is the only way to get them, at the moment.

 

Is Steam able to check whether a VPN has been used..?

 

Doesn't even matter if it's legal or not.
Because the players who are getting affected are the ones who had no incentive to use a VPN in the first place.

We already had a reasonable price in our currency. Others using a VPN to take advantage really blotted it for us.

 

You're not getting to them, though, and the sooner you realise DTG can't control inflation, the better for everyone. If you went to an estate agent and, during every conversation, kept badgering them to lower the price of a house you wanted to buy to its 2015 value, they'd soon have you removed from the premises.

 

Dear God !
It's not about inflation

( I'm getting sick, typing this again & again )

 

There are way's and means to not pay full price on DLC. Whether it's via a VPN directly or using VPN's to buy another countries console gift card at a reduced price or just waiting for a sale.

 

Fair suggestion, but I have some points.

1. Not sure if you're aware, but there are places in this world where using a VPN is illegal & banned. Not my country ( thankfully ), yet I'm trying to represent everyone affected ( including those who can't buy a VPN ).

2. I personally don't believe in cheating for something that I love dearly. If DTG considers adjusting the price, that'll be awesome else I'll wait for a sale, enjoy the content I already have or find another game to satisfy my ' rail-related thirst'.

Thanks for your suggestions...

 

Sorry, I'd switched off from what your actual point was - I'm getting sick of reading it in every thread.

I can fully understand why DTG would employ a default pricing matrix rather than employ someone to continuously monitor and maintain their own exchange rates for every one of the world's currencies. Surely you should be taking the issue up with Steam, or whoever is controlling the matrix from the top; it seems like you're berating a train driver because the timetable they're driving to doesn't suit your commute.

Seems like the pricing update includes more than just exchange rates, so maybe you've just had a disproportionately good deal in the past and they're only now levelling the playing field. Does that sting a bit? Sure. Do I want to hear about it endlessly? Nope.

 

I agree completely. After rush hour and the routes released on TSW3 I would had figured we would be moving foward with more variety

 

Hopefully this is the start of more of that outside of the southern third-rail network that's been building for a while. There's not only plenty of scope for more trains to layer in to New Street in the future, the 323 is now available to layer in on new routes, both in the Midlands and up north. It's all got to start somewhere, otherwise we'd have a long slow process of expanding away from London, rather than the jump that many people have been crying out for.

 

Agreed, this thread is not the place you want to hear about 'the problems Non-Brits are facing' or 'why your reasoning has a fallacy associated with it'. So be it, I won't post anything regarding it here anymore. But, you closing your eyes doesn't bring darkness to rest of the world.

We've certainly leveled a lot more than a playing field. And we'll proudly continue that trend.

Bye !

 

Not as many as you imply.. There are four countries where using a VPN is outright illegal, Belarus, North Korea, Iraq and Turkey.

There are countries who restrict VPN usage..

Russia: certain VPNs are banned
China: see Russia
UAE: legal but illegal to use to commit crime (well duh..)
Egypt: see UAE
Uganda: not illegal but usage is restricted as people use them to avoid a "social media tax" (yes really)
Venezuela: not illegal but block certain VPN's

 

Great research. Yes, there are players in Turkey ( I know IRL ) playing TSW.
( I was specifically referring to them ).

 

No, but they can check where in the world your credit card was issued.

 

Well this thread has been well and truly hijacked by the price argument, could these not be moved to another more relevant thread, like the price increase one?

 

What?, you don't enjoy watching man children argue over a fiver?!?!?

 

I fixed the underlying issue on 10/11/2022, it's just waiting for QA time for validation and integration I believe. For any friendly DTG staff reading this, it was ticket TSW3-7243

This was caused by the 323's pantograph being on a vehicle that, from Simugraph's perspective, consumes no current (We don't always model the low voltage AC supply or auxillaries in the simugraph) I extended our system to sum up the power draws of all the nodes on the train's high voltage bus so the motor coaches are counted.

So if this doesn't come in a patch in the near future, continue to hold us to account.

 

Okay guys, I think we’ve had enough discussion about the pricing of this route now. Can I kindly request that we refrain from discussing this topic any further.

Thanks.

 

Point noted...

 

me too

 

I think Daisy did a good job showing the details. Just one issue I had was the movement of the mouse during the preview.
BCC is one of those routes that you can compare to cathcart, I see it getting boring very quickly. maybe Ill get it in the future

 

The first thing I noticed was the lighting. I would hope that the route isn't finished but I think the new lighting isn't gonna fit a lot of future routes well! It's ok on a route like cjp or in the snow but playing older routes I prefer the old lighting to be honest!
Knowing nothing about the route I can't comment on any of that.
It's gonna be a day one purchase for me, being a British route. **************************.

 

i wished they would had shown night lighting around the route. They only show briefly around new street

 

It was very sensitive! I was thinking wow that driver must have had a lot of coffee.

 

I enjoyed the stream, lots of interesting things and Daisy's knowledge was great. I've pre-ordered and I'm looking forward to playing it tomorrow.

 

Daisy was a real asset yesterday, giving so much inside info while driving was a big plus. On the other hand, Matt was the third wheel on the car and this time only gave the direction instructions from the back seat. The new TSW3 lighting really came into its own again, rich colors and sharp contrasts. As I've never been to the Birmingham area before, I can only use Google Maps as a basis for comparison. I think you can draw some parallels with the Cathcart Cirlce Line as both are commuter routes, but this one seems to be a lot longer. A pro pro animals, it's nice that cats are now also involved too. The stuffed bear reminds me a bit of Rivet's plush dinos in IOW 2022.

Unfortunately you can't get around the current price topic at the moment, because the forum is being flooded with it. The discussion will certainly continue with the next route or train addon. Fortunately it was not made an issue yesterday, because it was about the route preview and the Class323.

 

Just wanted to second this as I feel it is an important question and may have been buried under the posts which discussed pricing.

 

I typed up a rather ranty post about the issue in this thread, then stupidly posted it in the Cross City PlayStation thread .
You get some really good topics on here that are then ruined.

 

I use a shadow card for all online payments so they'd never be able to track my card details lol

 

Thought the stream looked good, but Birmingham was very empty.
Would prefer a more general grungy look to the picture postcard brightness of everything.

Another up vote for Daisy.

 

From what I saw. I'm buying the second it comes out. There is alot of detail in the cab. Also, gaurds pannels? Say no more. I love trains with working gaurd pannels in them! Means you can try out gaurd. Looks like a great route with lots of detail. I give it an 9/10

 

To be frank I'm happy to pay 1000rs the most even after price increase. But not 1600 as the previous dlc would cost me just 799 and with pre-order discount even less. Now with no pre-order discount and 2x price increase in dlc I'm forced to abandon this game and dlc from now on.

People still live on wages as low as 20,000rs in india and this game costs like 1600rs. I'm sure no one will ever be able to pay almost 10% of their salary on a dlc even for fun.
There can be increase in price nothing wrong in that, but it should be a reasonable hike. When it comes to India you should consider Manual pricing and set price around 999rs. A 20% increase is fair but not a 100% increase.

 

Apparently you skipped school the day they covered the whole objective/subjective thing.

 

I believe the bakeroo line train also have guard panel operation as well . Someone correct me if I am wrong

 

Just managed to catch up with the preview stream. I thought it was well presented and Daisy certainly added a lot of inside knowledge to both the real life route and the simulation. I wasn't too concerned about the lack of traffic inside New Street as I would probably be concentrating too much trying to keep to the 10 mph speed limit! The 323 looked good, especially the cab although that could do with a bit more weathering considering the age of the units.

The route looks very well made with some excellent asset and scenery modelling. The only disappointment for me is the continuing problem with shadows, particularly the effect they have on trees. This seemed particularly noticeable on the first part of the route from Bromsgrove. I just wish DTG could sort this out. Otherwise, I liked what I saw and just hope more variety in rolling stock can be added as DLC in due course.

 

I noticed quite a few shadow issues and inconstancies with it along the route. Particularly the 323 cab - it looks very flat looking.

DTG said they were working on a fix to add ambient occlusion to the 2D 'cardboard' trees (the trees in the very far distance) but I'm not sure if it has made it into this route or not.

 

Did they mention anything about the journey mode? How many chapters and services?

 

Honestly, I think I'm going to wait and see for this route. Normally I would buy this route day 1, but since there are also two other routes from DTG in the near future plus the rivet route, I think I'll wait and see how things pan out. Plus Christmas is not too far around the corner, so hopefully the route will go on sale on Steam

 

Yeah the looming further releases are what is holding me back somewhat, I wouldn't be surprised given we just 6 weeks from Christmas of the German route isn't announced next week or at the latest the week after. Will we get both US & German routes this side of Christmas I wonder?

 

And there is a US loco dlc

 

They didn't talk about journey mode. Not that I know of. And for services, the total number is like 230 something i believe with all the layers

 

Having watched the stream (partly on my iPad and partly on my TV), my feedback is ‘Wow’. The attention to detail on the Class 323 is superb and it sounds great. Daisy did a great job driving the train and showing us all the little quirks of the unit and the further attention to detail we might otherwise miss or not fully appreciate ourselves.

The stations and scenery on the whole was very good and I like the fact we have to be more careful when approaching stations/signals so as not to set off the safety systems.

New Street Station, as expected, was largely devoid of all life and passengers were sinking through the stairs and trying to push each other out of the way. The lack of the 323 Soho depot, as I’ve already said, is another missed opportunity due to internal time restrictions and that, in my opinion, really hurts the route.

This is a route I’m definitely looking forward to owning and playing, but… I will be waiting until it’s on sale.

This is my little protest (for what it is worth) at the lack of Soho depot.

 

As with many routes in TSW but especially with UK-based routes, I feel as though Birmingham Cross City looks great and I'm sure it will provide many hours of fun, however it could use some polish in certain aspects.
For instance some of the AI passengers follow a weird path up and down some stairs, making them clip through the stairs. The shadows and light baking look a bit odd in some areas such as Birmingham New Street. And the immediate track-side scenery feels bare, which is a noticeable issue across *most* UK routes. Compare this to something like Great Western Express, which features various lineside equipment and shrubbery and rubbish.

If there's one thing I would like TSW to focus on, is in polishing up its game-world and making things look and behave as they should.