PC Birmingham Cross City Line First Thoughts

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by londonmidland, Nov 15, 2022.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Unlikely to be discounted at Christmas would have thought either Chinese New Year sale (forget the correct term) or certainly Easter next year, which is when I will grab it. Or it could be worth watching for a "pop" sale if the route undersells such as happened with Oakville and Sherman which suddenly went on sale at less than £5.
     
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  2. Shackamaxon

    Shackamaxon Well-Known Member

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    Trust me bro, it's hard to convince some people here.
    I'm earning way more than that, and I still feel that the price in INR is not justified.

    Up to 1,000 INR would be fine for a route of this size for me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022
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  3. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    How do you do a ticket to fix an issue?

    It's regarding the lineside fencing being missing between Alvechurch and Barnt Green, the railway is exposed but IRL this is not the case.
     
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  4. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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  5. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    For me, I would very much like to see this route expanded in the future to Rugby Stafford Walsall, etc, and get a network going.

    Daisy was great however she did irk me off when trying to highlight something by shaking the screen rather than the pointer.
    I've preordered too and was surprised at it being £30, but everything is going up it was only a matter of time.
     
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  6. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Not only time restrictions but also it was never in the plans to start with. Tsc was the same situation.
     
  7. paul.tuc

    paul.tuc New Member

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    I have played this route and already really like it a lot. I get what Daisy meant by the sounds of the fan to clear the screen. The 323 is a bit of a challenge to drive and with the overspeed protection I think this route adds something new for definite.

    The route maps are great as they look so fanastic. Please could we have a higher resolution of the timetable as even at 4k and Ultra settings it is difficult to read.

    Audio is great on this route.

    I think this should have been the GB launch route with TSW3 and can see why there is a launch package with this.

    The single line parts and inclines make this a more challenging route I believe than many other UK ones.

    Recommended.

    Would be great to have a loco DLC on this route to fill out New Street.
     
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  8. paul.tuc

    paul.tuc New Member

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    I meant to say only platforms 8 and 12 seem available in scenario planner for New Street.
     
  9. paul.tuc

    paul.tuc New Member

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    Driving the 2 car class 43 is a great addition. Thanks for giving services like this to those who have the layers.
     
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  10. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly every route is afflicted by this from some degree to another. SKW has a road directly next to the track with zero fencing. Line speed at this point is 230km/h and whilst not 100% I can't help believe that it is like this in real life.

    The more of us who make noise about this the better.
     
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  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Not good for making scenarios then. Why oh why do DTG not look further than the ends of their noses on this. Not expecting access to all the spawn and takeout portals but did they not consider people might want to make their own scenarios including classic era, which would require several of the platforms at New Street to be accessible for AI traffic. Amateurs...
     
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  12. paul.tuc

    paul.tuc New Member

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    I believe the door noise from the cab in the 323 to the passenger compartment has been updated. Confirmation on this ? It sounds more realistic like a real train (only done on 377 / 387 and 345s for real).
     
  13. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly this! They want us to create wonderful scenario's via the planner, well how the hell can you with only 2 paths at BNS, impossible to make it look busy! They just don't give us the tools to create anything of use!
     
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  14. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Is this more allive than Harlem Line?
     
  15. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    V first impressions, just running from Redditch to Barnt Green, excellent scenery, train drives nicely, sounds are v good. Feels weird doing 30mph leaving Redditch after all these years doing 15 on BVE!

    Agreed with the posts above re scenery between Alvechurch and Barnt Green - seems like there is some missing scenery there, hopefully can be rectified with a few bushes, fences etc. The other scenery on the branch is superb.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022
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  16. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    no. Harlem line has more services . including AI harlem has 536.
     
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  17. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I'm just asking for impressions ;) // not numbers
     
  18. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It seems the platform PIS is quite broken. Some services just don't show up at all, or it'll say a Birmingham New Street bound service, whilst already at Birmingham New Street. It'll also say 'This train is formed of 2 coaches' for Class 323 services.

    If anyone is experiencing any bugs or issues, I've opened up a new thread specifically for it, so please post them in THIS ONE for that. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022
  19. ChrisR

    ChrisR New Member

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    I have to say, I'm sorely disappointed. I was very much looking forward to the route as it's a local one for me.

    New Street (my stomping ground) has been so poorly made that it actually hinders you getting around (more than the real life station does!) Signals are in the wrong place and are the wrong distance apart, platforms are far too narrow with stairs being in the incorrect places, at the B end of the platforms, the stairs are facing the complete wrong way and the A end of the platform... Why are there 2 separate concourses for the stairs and escalators?

    Don't get me wrong, the route as a whole is nice, the 323 is done very well (with a few minor bugs), is excellent to drive and the sounds are a massive step up from the TSC route, but it's massive issues like this that bring the whole quality of the route down. If New Street had a bit more time and a little more work put into it, it would actually be a really good base for a lot of route ideas.
     
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  20. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    To our fellow english train enthusiasts : what kind of layer, if any, would be good to :
    - increase overall number of services
    - increase nb of AI trains
    - bring life to Birmingham ?

    More than the price its emptyness that prevent me from buying it actually.

    For those asking about Steam controls of residence data : I moved to UAE 3 years ago but in order to change my purchase currency i actually needed to prove Steam my residency with providing ID card.
     
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  21. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Having the limited-stop 170 Hereford trains would add more traffic (and colour - they're mostly painted purple and orange) to the southern half of the route, both passing you from the other direction and overtaking when you're stopped at Northfield. Similarly the XC services, but they'd need to sort licensing for that. You do see plenty of 323 traffic as it is – it's certainly not as dead as some of the routes I've played – just a shame there's only orange.

    I honestly don't think the quiet New Street is as big a deal as some people are making out. Sure, if you spend your time wandering around, there's an obvious lack of green, pink, white and red trains, but when you're driving through, it's a tiny fraction of the route.
     
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  22. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    ,,A Lot of starting points at new street" according to the stream :(....

    Also, at crowded stations, NPCs seem to be pushed onto the track, I had a lets say unfortunate incident at university (screenshot from Redditch).......

    Otherwise i am really enjoying the route, just did a Lichfield to Redditch service.

    20221117203545_1.jpg
     

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  23. phil.elliott

    phil.elliott Well-Known Member

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    I'm really enjoying it overall so far. I like the scenery, it's nice to see something new. A few glitches, but nothing problematic, and the details are great.
     
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  24. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I am enjoying the route so far, just ran from Redditch to Aston. Some very nice details and I like the train sounds and the details of the class 323. I think New Street looks good, yes a bit quiet but I don't think it is that big a deal personally. There is obviously some traffic missing from the southern end but there are plenty of Cross City services so it doesn't feel dead by any stretch of the imagination.

    I did find it seems to stutter more than some other routes though, in fact about two minutes or so outside Redditch it "hung" for several seconds, will try again later and see if it was a one off. The run into New Street was quite smooth. I might have to mess with my settings.

    Overall pleased with it and look forward to exploring more of it.
     
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  25. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    I tend to play in Cab mode so I am going to pretend a 166 is a 170 and drive a Hereford service. Just need to find the timings on Realtime Trains.
     
  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well as I said in another thread I am quite enjoying it. The 323 is nice and visually the route is mostly well done. The acceleration and braking are not overdone as on some units, Step 1 brakes are definitely a light touch which is how it should be. North of New Street some of the stations are on significant gradients which makes stopping more of a challenge.

    Hopefully in time we will get a "Legends" style pack which adds a BR Blue service with the older stuff.

    Yes it definitely needs more life and other types of rolling stock added. Once the novelty has worn off it will be a Cathcart or ECW, one to dip into for a quick run. Worth £30? Probably not and for that amount we should have got a bit more route and/or another traction type to drive. But I'm not displeased and will be keeping it - sufficiently different from the existing UK content.
     
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  27. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    I really like the contrast between the route south of Birmingham and the north end of the route. You go from more open fields to more urban sprawl. Love it. Did one of the HST moves and the lighting seems better more Global Illumination effects. Very nice low level lighting.
     
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  28. Cheesypuff2

    Cheesypuff2 Active Member

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    It seems to me a quick fill in of scenery closer to the track with some low level foliage will sort it to a bearable level. It feels like that part was mapped out but the final touches never done, as you say the rest of the branch is beautiful so it must be an oversight
     
  29. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of hidden track from Kings Norton to Birmingham Tarmac Sidings and a Secret Depot (?????)

    Hidden_track_kingsNorton.png End_point.png 20221118005238_1.jpg
     
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  30. w2sjw

    w2sjw Active Member

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    Just a quick comparison here - My TSC version (that's modded to all hell!), and TSW3's rendition. Same station, both at about 11:00am in the 'autumn' setting:
    BCC_TSC.jpg BCC_TSW3.jpg
     
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  31. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Thank you for the feedback so far, and glad that on the whole, you're enjoying it.

    Thanks for the thread londonmidland - we're gathering feedback today so this is very helpful.
     
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  32. deeuu#6908

    deeuu#6908 Well-Known Member

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    I've only spent an hour with it, but my opinion is much more positive than it is negative.
    In terms of visual fidelity I'd say this takes TSW to a new level, it's the best looking route I've played hands down, and the whole route looks really, really good, if it weren't for some anti alias flickering (even though I am running it at 4k) I'd say the IQ was top notch.
    The route is fun, has some nice incline changes and the train is fun to drive over them because of the way it reacts.
    My only real negative is the lack of 'bustle', Birmingham is a busy city, but it just feels very empty, pulling into new street station made me feel like Cillian Murphy in 28 days later.
    This route is just screaming out for a train add-on to layer some more AI.
    That said, I do feel it was worth the price, if only for the jump in visuals.
     
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  33. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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  34. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    I am very pleased with the route, a little disappointed that my former home which looked out on the railway between Northfield and Kings Cross is missing but hey ho, it’s a wonderful route. Bought it for my xbox as there are rarely sales, but will wait awhile before adding it to my PC via Steam. Would have paid £45.98 on pre order for both.
     
  35. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know if this helps you, but the XBox version also allows you to install the PC Version of TSW3 and all its DLC from the Microsoft Xbox App for Windows. I’m just buying on Xbox now and playing on both. The other good thing is that it will sync the progress back and forth between the two.
     
  36. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    Aside from the bugs mentioned in LM's thread, I do have to say the 323 is a delight! Physics are pretty much nailed, and the sounds are lovely - great detail to some of the audio. Pleased to note the flange sounds and rail noise at higher speeds, rattles, and a compressor that stays on for a decent amount of time. Really impressed.

    The signalling and approach control has been nailed too.

    Please fix the bugs though, and the missing fences and scenery especially between Barnt Green and the M42 on the branch. It really looks bad and let's down what is otherwise a beautifully detailed route.
     
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  37. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    My Theory is its always easier to lay track than to lay scenery. And I have heard Matt talk about how the scope of a project is much larger than what gets delivered. Maybe they had plans for longer freight runs as the service I took ran from Bromsgrove to the Sidings you mentioned. Adds about 10 minutes more.
     
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  38. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    In a spirit of cooperation and to encourage positive critical feedback, would it be possible at some point to get an official collated list and where the issues stand as regards fixing? Some like missing scenery and fencing are cosmetic but do affect enjoyment and we know from BML and SoS do not seem to score highly on the rework list, although they should. The complete sound dropout at the Proof House end of New Street is probably the biggest priority, followed by the PIS to show correct train length and order of stopping.
     
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  39. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Overall I'm really happy with this route. I still maintain it should have been more of a showstopper but I'm at least glad that what we got is pretty solid. This is my favourite route since London Commuter I think.

    As others have mentioned, the 323 is fantastic drive. I think it might be the best British TSW loco to date. Obviously the sounds are near enough spot on, but it's the small details that made me fall for it. Being able to not only turn on the fan and air con, but adjust how strong they are and hear the sound adjust accordingly. I think those details are what separate a good simulator from a great one.

    I think the route itself is very well made too. The stations all look great, and the scenery is probably the best TSW3 has seen. TSW3's new lighting really makes the route pop, and as a result I'd say this is the best looking TSW route ever. In the right place at the right time in the right weather the game looks gorgeous. There's been several occasions where I've forgotten to brake for a station or speed restriction because I've been too busy admiring it, which has never happened before.
     
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  40. phillipa#1949

    phillipa#1949 Active Member

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    Not Exactly Value for money then by all account. Where as if it had been WCML-South i would quite willing to pay £30 7 say that it was 30 quid well spent !!!!. I think this one for the January sale on the PSN after Xmas
     
  41. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As I said in other thread(s) it's good, but not really £30 good.
    Now that new Turkish route for TSC, with a loco that sounds like a Greek Alco mixed with a Class 26 - My Lords, as the bashers used to say!
     
  42. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    Still Loving the route but seems like some parts of the route are a little Bear.... Ok I'll get my coat. 20221118111018_1.jpg
     
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  43. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The vast majority of comments I have seen have suggested a positive experience so far, and value for money is a personal decision not something which can be described on a factual basis.

    Where do you get that seven people have said it is money well spent?
     
  44. phillipa#1949

    phillipa#1949 Active Member

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    I would Strongly Agree with that
     
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  45. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps some feedback for future big stations. I was showing my Dad (just as much of a railway enthusiast as I am) around New Street and when we got to the main bridge across the station his first comment was "where are all the shops and stalls?"

    Now obviously I don't expect DTG to obtain the rights to the likes of WHSmith, Upper Crust etc (although they got Cadbury so who knows), but it may be beneficial in the future to have mock stalls with fake brands, perhaps with an NPC permanently stationed there.

    Come to think of it though, isn't the Whistestop at Paddington actually fully featured in TSW? Like it's still just a blank building but I seem to remember it has the real Whistestop branding in game. I'll have to check when I get home.
     
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  46. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Deffo, especially since the modders will soon see to it and replace with genuine brands
     
  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    And toilets you can go into. Birmingham New Street was the first station I ever saw a machine on the wall of the gents selling a certain, ahem, product. And no, not chewing gum!
     
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  48. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    The main concourse at the top of the escalators/stairs looks quite odd, I saw someone running around there before. It should be much more open than that following the refurbishment, I get they want to limit what is modelled but it just looked wrong.

    The other one which doesn't go to the main station looks spot on though, almost had deja vu from people running around that part.
     
  49. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    So my general feelings are that this is a good route with some outstanding characteristics:

    - The general scenery detail is really good and a step up on what we've seen previously
    - The lighting is (occasional bug aside) outstanding compared to what we were used to on TSW2
    - It's clear that Daisy's input has had a big impact on the level of detail in this DLC and I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I'm grateful both to her and the DTG team for the implementation
    - The 323 is beautifully modelled and the audio is excellent with really consistent and solid mixing which has been a challenge previously
    - Driving the 323 is a pleasure too - the physics 'feel' spot-on and it can be something of a challenge in wet and especially snowy conditions. (On my first drive in snowy weather I had the TPWS kick in on the northbound approach to Lichfield City and I slid, wheels locked, into the station right onto the stopping point - nothing to see here!)
    - Special note that the glass atrium sections of the Navigation St footbridge are spectacular and give a brilliant view over the tracks at New Street.
    - Timetable uses realistic timings throughout and it's challenging but not impossible to stay on time in bad weather

    However:

    - The southern section of the route is just not busy enough. As nearly all the fast trains on the New Street - Bromsgrove section are missing, it's very quiet, as is BNS itself.
    - The railtours take place at very odd times of day
    - Is it realistic that there is only freight in the very early and late hours?
    - Given the timetable is set in 2019, I would have liked to see additional 323 services representing the Walsall / Wolverhampton line, drivable between New Street and Aston. If nothing else it would help to make the station busier and more life-like - at the moment it's got an eerie feel to it, especially with the dimly lit pedestrian overpasses.

    On the topic of quietness, I understand that the Cross Country license is currently not possible for DTG to obtain - fair enough. But I would have included a grey unbranded HST as a separate package, included in the purchase price. That way, anyone who didn't want the 'unrealistic' train could have uninstalled it, whereas those who wanted a more fleshed-out timetable could keep it (thanks to locos now being separate from routes). At least then the fast XC routes could be included - even if a lot of them would be AI-only.

    (I think this technique has been used previously on ECML South in TSC?)

    I would also say that I really hope a WMR 170 (or 196!) is a high priority for developing and getting out the door soon for the BNS - Worcester/Hereford services. Yes, they may only stop at 3-4 stations en route but the semi-fast driving experience would be a significant and welcome change of pace to the 323. An extension to Worcester would, of course, be very much appreciated but even at a minimum, I'd like to drive the diesels as far as Bromsgrove.

    (Further note - the 170 would be very easy to layer or repaint for future routes, so you could consider it an investment in development time?)

    I can't help but end up thinking how close some of these routes come to perfection, but fall frustratingly just short (much like BML, which so badly needed a Class 700 but for some reason never received it).
     
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  50. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I was going to check that later but saves me the bother. Why on earth would these be excluded when they use the same traction over a shared portion of the line?
     
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