"blue" Scenery

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by countcussy, Nov 27, 2022.

  1. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    Relatively new to TSC recently, as taking a break from TSW. Bought some bits in the sale. Really enjoying so far, but having issues with distant scenery. See attached pics from Settle & Carlisle.
    Also does this on the FIFE line, where one of the Bridges in the distance is just a blue outline, and the sea/river is just a solid blue colour.
    Pretty sure it should not be like this. Can anyone help?
    FWIW I have the AP Sky and Weather pack, and The AP track enhancement pack installed. Not sure if its related, or if I have broken something.
     

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    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
  2. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Can't help just confirm / guide.

    I remember RW Enhancer to mention distant scenery rendering color. Haze tends to hide it, but of course this color is bad.
    Although virtually every game has such scenarios, and I've seen similar in TS and definitely in WoW. Didn't keep shots of course.

    Should be like these:
    20220522133310 - Class 67 Claret, Coach Mk1 BR Chocolate-Cream.jpg 20220522124820 - Coach Mk1 BR Chocolate-Cream.jpg 20220522122328 - Class 67 Claret, Coach Mk1 BR Chocolate-Cream, Coach Mk1 BR Maroon-Cream.jpg
    However, sometimes it's wrong in the original game as well, seen here with (3D) Clear, distant snow is dark green:
    20210227134410 - Class 101 BR Blue.jpg
    I think it's route specific weather / settings, and some newer weathers cannot pick it up.
     
  3. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. At least yours are not blue. :)

    Another example attached.
     

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  4. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    This is how it looks like by default:
    20221128004122_1.jpg
    Managed an artifact which appears while paused, but as soon as I look around it goes away forever. It just hints about sky and terrain rendering.
    20221128004157_1.jpg
    One overview shot just for the sake of it:
    20221128004242_1.jpg

    Given that the second picture is clearly a (very misplaced) sun overlay, I assume distant scenery also has an overlay that defines its color. Case in point, try to reset your weather enhancements.

    (The blue is actually more realistic than green, I've read it somewhere, too. The main benefit of the enhancement here is increasing light levels, which may have caused the overly bright blue distant scenery. For the original shots have a really sad histogram.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
  5. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    Is there a way to disable the AP enhancement's?
     
  6. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    Try turning on 3D weather in the game settings options.

    AP doesn't provide an uninstaller for any of their products. The only way I know to remove their enhancement packs is to delete your Railworks folder and re-install everything.

    AP have some good products, but as you're discovering they aren't the god-like developer some people seem to believe.
     
  7. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    When you say "3D" weather, do you mean Dynamic Clouds? Does that override the AP setting?
    In Hindsight, I should have run the game vanilla first.
    It's all on Steam, so a complete re-install is not a huge issue, but I would rather avoid it if there is a workaround.
     
  8. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    Yes, tick dynamic clouds and see what happens. When using Dynamic Clouds you may want to use the in-game menu to adjust ambient lighting and contrast.
     
  9. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Simply doing a verification might be enough - right click the game card, choose Properties, and then here the last one.
    If I understand correctly AP weather overrides some files so that it becomes the default.
    upload_2022-11-28_10-46-47.png
    In my opinion AP and RWE are upgrades, sometimes with side effects. Default TSC has its own pretty side, at that point it's more realistic than AP will ever be. However, too many TSC scenarios use muddy weather, being objectively dark (using the bottom 25-30% of the brightness range, most pixels sitting at 8-12%, is just silly). While it has its mood, and work well in a completely dark room, seeing shots by Blazin of the same scenarios, they look nicer.

    ps.: This scenario you photographed uses 2D weather. 3D has a much different look:
    20200702224334_1.jpg
     
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  10. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all for the help.
    I will try a few things tonight when I get home.
    I bought the AP packs on sale. If I end up not using them, so be it.
     
  11. 37418

    37418 Member

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    I'm struggling to see what in this post is the fault of AP? The blue distant scenery is a limitation of the default fog shader which uses the sky colour for the colour of the fog. There is logic to this as distant mist on a clear day will often have a blue tinge but TS takes it rather too far. The alternative is having no fog/mist at all which produces the rather ugly dark green as pictured above. Can't really win either way sadly but certainly not the fault of AP.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  12. R3dS41ft

    R3dS41ft Active Member

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    You could find the AP weather settings manually by looking for a TimeOfDay directory on a per route basis. Either remove it (if you have a .ap file that also contains a TimeOfDay directory) or overwrite with the original files.
     
  13. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    Fair point. I just wanted to know if it was by design, or if I had done something wrong.
    I now have a choice of what to do.
     
  14. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  15. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    That seems a bit drastic - DELETE EVERYTHING YOU OWN and start again :o

    When I wanted to remove a sound pack I just deleted it and reacquired the loco from Steam
     
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  16. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    Everything in it. If you don't install their weather pack, you don't get the ridiculous light blue distant hills at sunrise/sunset which are lighter than the sky! It really is AP's fault, they could have done things differently, such as not having the fog and having the distant hills a dark colour which would be realistic for sunrise/sunset.
     
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  17. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    Things like the weather and track EP are very pervasive and even if you know how the file structure works it's a lot of effort to surgically remove them. One thing about AP's products that I really dislike is that there's no uninstaller.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  18. Måns Johannesson

    Måns Johannesson Member

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    Yes, the blue in the distance in the AP weather pack is too much sometimes, although I feel your examples look bluer than I get. Perhaps something with the settings. I usually don't use the pack on mountainous routes because of that though a merely hilly route like S&C ought to be OK.

    It is quite easy to deinstall/inactivate the weather and sky pack for routes. The new files are installed in a new 'Timeofday' folder outside the AP file, just remove or rename that and you are rid of the pack for that route.
     
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  19. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    As Mans says plus to remove the AP weather just delete this folder: \STEAM\steamapps\common\RailWorks\Assets\AP\WeatherEP. The TimeofDay file os on the Assets folder for the route :\STEAM\steamapps\common\RailWorks\Assets\DTG\FifeCircle\TimeOfDay.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  20. 37418

    37418 Member

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    So the only time of day that is important to you is sunrise and sunset? Surely best to have the majority of the rest of the day looking more correct?
     
  21. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    So, If I rename the TimeOfDay folder, everything is back to normal, except, I now have some black and yellow items at certain sections that say "Missing" in them :)

    If I am honest, I Think I am going to try and ignore the blue haze for now. Having compared with and without, the AP lighting is really, really good.

    I appreciate all the help.
     
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  22. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You missed the point of my reply.
    You are suggesting people should delete every single item in their Railworks Folder - mine is 785gb

    That is just STUPID.
     
  23. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, Re verifying files on Steam did the trick. Set everything back to default.
    Easy for me. Probably less so for those with a lot of re-skins, add ons and third party routes.
     
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  24. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    Not as stupid as getting a massive bloatware installation, 90% of which you don't use. If you follow my advice not only will you be able to easily remove the AP EPs, but you'll also have a nice compact installation focused on what really interests you.
     
  25. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    The majority of AP EP's are outside of DLC .ap files. so just delete the folder content not in the .ap.
    Older routes all you need do is untick the route in Steam and then retick it
     
  26. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So even though AP addons only affect a small amount of my Railworks Assets I should remove all my third party assets that are not affected by the AP stuff - which is what would happen if I cleaned out my Railworks Folder.

    WHY?
     
  27. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    I have found the AP Weather Pack very invasive and not easy to remove; however, deleting your Railworks folder is certain to do the job and for a newbie is straightforward way. Obviously, if you still want third party assets you re-install them. In the case of a bloated Railworks folder it's less of a chore than you might think, as most of that bloat you'll have lost interest in, and you only have to re-install what currently interests you.

    I obliterate my Railworks folder twice a year and I find my subsequent rebuilt slim installation is smooth and stable and I never get the odd bugs reported here arising from duff 3rd party DLC.
     
  28. frankoi1337

    frankoi1337 Member

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    It really isn't, just a 24 KB TimeOfDay folder to remove on lines you don't want it to be applied. Compared to the hassle it is to reinstall everything... But I kinda agree that an uninstaller wouldn't hurt.
    After all it's a matter of taste, but the AP weather really looks way better in the vast majority of situations. Yes, the distant blue tint at sunrise/sunset isn't great, but it seems to be constrained by the way TS works, as stated in AP's manual (they say the haze must have the same tint as the sky).
     
  29. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So what happens if you simply delete the Weather Pack from the AP Folder?
    Instead of deleting everything in the Railworks Folder why not just remove the Scenarios that are outside the MainContent.ap file?
     
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  30. Måns Johannesson

    Måns Johannesson Member

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    I think you have to remove the timeofday files anyway, otherwise you problaby get some errors as these look for the weather pack. And if you remove the timeofday files you have in effect deactivated the weather pack for that route, removing the pack is then only necessary to free up disc space. Might as well leave the pack in place, maybe you want to use for some other route where it works better.
     
  31. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    AP overwrites Kuju/RailsimulatorCore/TimeOfDay and Weather.

    Those core weather patterns are still widely used (1.Clear, 2. Cloudy...)

    To completely uninstall AP weather pack you need a backup of those folders or a file verification in addition to removing the specific TimeOfDay folders in the asset folders.
     
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  32. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    Time for an update..

    I am off work ill, so had some time to do a more thorough fix than a re-validate.
    Due to my lack of content, I uninstalled, removed the railworks folder, and re-installed, as I had no content or progress to lose.
    Everything seems back to normal. However......
    On the Scenario "Unforeseen problems" On the Fife Circle with the class 170 DMU, I am getting bright blue mountains, similar to what I was getting with the AP Weather pack installed. You can see it right from the start of the scenario. In the tunnels leaving Waverly, there is a blue haze, then as you get further along the route, the stadium on the right is blue until you get closer, then you can see the blue hills/mountains in the distance. The Weather for that scenario is Summer, Clear and 14:02
    If create my own run using quick drive, same train, same route, summer, clear and same time, I do not get the blue tint.
    The issues I had at the start of this thread on Settle/Carlisle are completely fixed.
    So my question is, am I trying to fix something that's inherent to that scenario? Or do I have another issue I need to find?
     
  33. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Without specifically knowing - the default game (weather, sky combination) can produce the exact same look under specific conditions. Same input, same output.
    As far as I know, Quick Drive uses its own global 3D weathers, or you can toggle 2D. Routes typically come with their own. It opens up possibilities and improvements, most importantly to match the local theme (forest vs fields, open vs valleys). The menu doesn't always pick up the best match, and seems to default to say Clear. Pretty much all scenario of Donner Pass show Clear, despite massive overcast, fog, even rain. There was also some fiddling with it over the years.

    If you are curious about specifics, go to the main menu, Build, Scenario tab, and search for said scenario. You likely have to Clone it, then you can press Edit. When it opens, don't click yet! On the right hand side there is an open panel, around the bottom is the weather.
    If there is a haze, I'm putting my money on Hazy :) I used that on Edinburgh-Glasgow. It's not an aggressive difference, but you can see it I guess. It helps with the sharp feel of distant scenery.

    Clear:
    20210810211911 - Class 33 Engineering Dutch, Wagon Tank-TEA.jpg
    Hazy:
    20210816222724 - Wagon Tank-TEA.jpg

    Personally I'd flip-flop AP, it's nice but looking out of my window, or watching stuff like Don Coffey's latest, the default (2D) skies are more realistic (and artistic). Ideally I'd just take the light settings, so that it's brighter.
    Ultimately the question is, which one do YOU like better. Or you could consider it as an option for even more diversity.
    You can create a backup of your RailWorks folder, install AP, compare, and figure out how to selectively pop it in. The above comments should help.

    Some weathers have more haze:
    20221109090934 - Scenery, EMD SD70M SP, Wagon Autorack SP.jpg
     
  34. TimeSlicedDanny

    TimeSlicedDanny Active Member

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    Fife Circle has excessively blue haze in 2D sunny weather QD out of the box. It may have it in the scenarios, but I've not tried.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2022
  35. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for trying to assist. HAD to go back to work today, but the scenario clone is a great idea. No idea I could do this.
    Its this type of thing I am still learning. I will try this tonight and report back.
    I could probably live with a blueish haze, it's the really blue hills that spoil it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2022
  36. countcussy

    countcussy Well-Known Member

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    OK. Thanks to the help above, I appear to be making progress. After a quick designer tutorial, I managed to clone the offending scenario. Surprisingly, to me anyway, weather was set to cloudy. Scrolled down the list and changed it to 3D cloudy and saved. Ran the scenario, and it looked great, exactly how I would expect. So pretty much convinces me it's nothing my end, so to speak.
    However, Now that I have learned how to tinker, I am going to try and do the reverse, and run one of the Fife scenarios that is normally rainy, and change it to cloudy. If everything goes blue, I clearly need to avoid that weather on Fife.

    *EDIT* Just done that, and as somewhat expected, the blue haze returned.
    Must be something on the route build, as changing it on other routes does not have the negative impact.
    Thank again for pointing me in the right direction.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2022
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  37. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Glad you sorted it out :)
    The Settle-Carlisle scenario starting this topic was also 2D Cloudy.
    In TS that means the partially covered sky with cloud patches.
    Haze is just a very light fog, and overcast has fully covered sky, with mild fog.

    Just a word of warning. If you end up with the entire world in yellow, orange or even pink, don't worry either.
    The timing of it can be very off, and it's very weird on screen, but it's actually realistic, albeit not for hours.
     

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