A Word Of Warning Regarding Refunds And Game Play Time

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Reef, Nov 30, 2022.

  1. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Original post edited:
    Ignore the strike through text, I'd incorrectly assumed my issue was regarding the bundled EU Loco and Asset Packs, turns out it was game play time since DLC purchase (whether playing the said DLC or not).

    Firstly for those that don't know what the hell I'm on about..

    USALP = US Assets & Loco Pack
    EUALP = European Assets & Loco Pack

    And the warning?


    For the first time in over 15yrs of having Steam I decided to ask for a refund on two recently purchased DLCs.

    I played Story of Forest Rail for about 10 ~ 15 minutes before I decided it's not for me and the DMU sounds are absolutely brain drillingly awful.

    I was also equally unimpressed by the second purchase that day of the Tadami Line, I wasn't taken with the trains cab model or sounds at all and basically I'd bought both routes on a whim in the sale just to venture further afield in my TS world, so the Tadami Line got less than 10 minutes play time too

    So I thought stuff it I'll get a refund and buy the HUDD Line instead..

    Yeah..

    So I raised a ticket with Steam and about 47mins for TSoFR and about 1hr 11mins for Tadami later got what looked like a very automated response telling me that since my playtime exceeded 2hrs I could not be refunded, it listed play time as 6hrs 27minutes and 6hrs 51minutes respectively (I was playing TS in between receiving the two separate refund denial e-mails).

    I figured out that it was adding the EUALP time played into this as this is bundled with both routes and I've owned EUALP since 2014 so hardly surprised it's logged up time even though it doesn't get used as a standalone DLC item as per the norm.

    So I resent my requests stating that they were erroneously counting the EUALP DLC usage time not the routes I'm actually trying to refund.

    About an hour later got the same automated denial stating exactly the same played over 2hrs blah blah..

    Also will add that there is nowhere (that i can find) to raise the issue with Steam either via the e-mails or Support links to speak to anyone (human) to try and sort out this obvious (to us) error.

    So DTG feel free to cough up the £23.63, I guess I ought not to hold my breath though eh.

    At the very least stop bundling the EUALP and or USALP with routes and just make them free (again) but tell customers that they are also required to be downloaded for the DLC they've just purchased to work correctly.

    DTG Jamie DTG JD DTG Matt
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2022
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  2. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    Steam counts the amount of time you spent using TS no matter what route or other DLC you were using.
     
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  3. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Even if that's the case and I've read no documentation to say it is btw, it needs a more dynamic system of counting the actual item/s you're trying to get reimbursed for, at the very least you should have a way of disputing the bots decision with a human.

    Would be nice for DTG to fight our corner, I wonder if any of the three staff I tagged in the first post will care to respond?
     
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  4. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    This is correct it’s in the T’s and C’s and also on the Steam Help Pages.

    https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

    Not sure what you expect DTG to do. But when I had a similar issue (I went 2 minutes over the 2 hours because I didn’t realise either). I raised a new ticket with another reason, and that got to a human who pointed out I should have read the T’s and C’s, but gave me the refund anyway. So that might be worth a try. This was a few years ago so no guarantees it will work.

    I can’t find the email now, but I think the reason I chose was ‘Question about a purchase’ or something like that.
     
  5. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    I did raise a new ticket and got the exact same bot reply.

    That comment speaks volumes, don't you think?
     
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  6. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, was trying to help. It was our own fault we didn’t read the T’s and C’s.

    I expect DTG to fix bugs, not fix my mistakes.
     
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  7. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Well I assume then (until told otherwise by either a DTG or Steam representative) that it was nothing to do with the EUALP then.

    Still, a game that's been in my library for 8yrs and amassed over 1300hrs over the last 2yrs and a DLC that's been in it for a few hours (not play time but ownership time) it's pretty wrong and broken that it goes off of the total game time, it might work for some games but not for TS, what if the DLC is completely broken and unplayable, you have zero comeback and apparently according to some I shouldn't even expect the Developer to help correct it..

    Boggling.
     
  8. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Me buying a sub standard DLC sold by DTG through Steam is my mistake?

    Ok, I guess I should research more before purchasing any further TSC content and tbf I usually do, but I thought TSoFR and the Tadami Line got good reviews, I'll double check next time for sure.
     
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  9. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    It’s not the Asset packs. It says in the link I posted that refund time includes any time from when you start the host game.

    When I made the mistake, it was because I’d left it running on the Menu screen. Also in my case it wasn’t TSC, so all Steam Games are the same.

    I don’t think it’s right or fair either. But at least it’s better than PlayStation. They won’t refund if you’ve opened the game.

    For TSC, I now buy DLC one at a time and try them straight away. That way I still get the 2 hours.
     
  10. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Many TSC DLC can be played in two hours (which is sad) but the main point is, Steam doesn't know which DLC you use, or do you even, such as starting up the menu and leaving for lunch.

    Two approaches can work.

    Either buy DLC individually, try them out quickly, and refund if necessary.
    Alternatively buy them in a bundle during sales, and accept that there might be some mistakes involved. Still a fair deal, and still just a small percentage of my purchases are mistakes. (Plus, I have many unplayed games and DLC, now that's The Mistake.)

    I do the latter and at worst, I have some asset packs, and a short, expensive experience of the route.
    Especially as TSC allows mix and match, taking the train on other routes, or vice versa.

    (Seeing the titles I expected that the refund took the asset packs away :D)
     
  11. westcastlerail

    westcastlerail Active Member

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    Reef - I have sympathies with how you've been treated and the issues you have. (customer service speak!)

    In the recent sales I purchased:
    From ATS: 4 routes, the 185 and downloaded a whole host of other stuff - all installed and worked fine straight away.
    From AP: 6 new bits of rolling stock and various enhancement packs - all installed and worked straight away.
    From DTG - Leeds Huddersfield route - had DTG Log errors (whatever they are) appear on my very first Quickdrive from Marsden to Slaithwaite. (not out of memory crashes and i'm running 64 bit. 600 hours of playing. DTG route was installed first prior to any of the subsequent TS/AP stuff).

    So unfortunately, the reality is, when looking at DLC from DTG is best to do your research and check out the reviews.

    Unfortunately that's not possible on new DLC, so I would choose to wait a while after release (not always easy for something you would really like!) and see the feedback.

    Probably another idea would be to leave a review of the issues you have on Steam DLC so other people don't have the same issues either.

    It would be nice too if someone from DTG read this thread and advised you what to do or what they are doing (other than just raise ticket and wait from something to happen).
     
  12. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So most people are not having problems with the Man - Leeds route but you are
    Is that due to something wrong at the DTG end or with your setup?
    And could one of the items you installed from ATS or AP (Weather?) be interfering with the route

    The AP Weather Pack does apply changed to the DTG Huddersfield Line: Manchester - Leeds
     
  13. westcastlerail

    westcastlerail Active Member

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    Apologies if this post is initially going off topic, but i'm replying directly to a message in this thread so will hopefully be able to leave my reply here.

    Judging by the feedback in the "TSC = Huddersfield Line Out Now" thread on this forum, there seems to be plenty of issues with this route.

    I think you have also highlighted issues with line markers and speed restriction which are still in progress as fixes?.

    DTG Jamie posted on the 18th October that they will look it into it and come back, but still have not seen a response that anything has been fixed (maybe posted elsewhere?). How long should we wait? A week / month / year????

    The issues I'm having may end up being my end, and thanks for the suggestion of the AP weather could be something to do with it. (my latest AP purchases where installed after this route but the weather pack would of been installed).

    For me, im not going to spend hours trying to fix a problem which may affect other DLC and other games that I play, and that work correctly, just to sort this one recently purchased DLC issue, until I know the Huddersfield route has been patched up.

    So going back onto topic - DTG / Steam have mine and reefs money, and we have both stand little chance of getting refunds, fixes or communication, so we don't have much choice other than to accept we have lost our money.

    It would be nice to know that after all this time after release, that the issues DTG are looking into regarding this route have been fixed, before I have to start looking,
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2022
  14. TimeSlicedDanny

    TimeSlicedDanny Active Member

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    I have been caught out by not realizing the 2hrs limit for refunds applies to base game play after DLC purchase. I bought something a few years ago, realized it wasn't for me after 50 mins, requested a refund, then kept on playing with other DLC. Refund refused as I now had 3.5 hrs since the purchase.

    It's a bit annoying, but once you know how it works you adjust your buying practices. I'm not resentful, as any refund service is better than none.
     
  15. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if DTG are looking in to the problem with the speeds but I fixed it in 10 mins -
    Once somebody told me what the problem was and how to fix it. :)
     
  16. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I acknowledged this in my post prior to yours.

    The title is a little misleading now I know the route (pun intended) cause. I might edit it.

    Just to speak to a human would be something instead of a repeated automated response.

    Indeed, two days in and nothing though..

    Well as said by others, I'll just take more care in future and be mindful of the 2hr game rule, thanks all.
     
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  17. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    I have now edited the title and the original post.
     
  18. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I would reply with "GET ME A *BLEEP* HUMAN!"

    Steam assumes you are using the DLC immediately. This is why buying 5 DLC all at once can often be discouraged. You might play each for half an hour then ask for refunds on two you didn't like as much, and suddenly all of them have been played for two and a half hours.
     
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  19. trevkiwi

    trevkiwi Active Member

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    Yes, as already mentioned you can talk to a human on Steam by going through another issue not related to your problem. A couple of years ago I was having download speed issues sometimes less than 1MB/s I got in contact with someone on Steam and we went through different ways to fix it but none worked and it ended up with the person saying that there is nothing they could do. About a couple of days later my speeds returned to normal.
     
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  20. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Yes, unfortunately the time played counts from whenever the bot chooses to process the refund, not from the time when you request the refund.
     
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  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    If I choose to refund something whether TSC or TSW as a precaution I will stop playing the game until I get the second, confirmatory email. The two hour limit has always applied to the main game rather than DLC since Steam introduced the possibility of refunds. The only occasion I got a refund after two hours was the game Sailaway. Pointed out Steam version was twice the price of buying direct from the developer direct and you has to pay through the nose to get content not included.

    Forest Rail is a nice route but yes the stock trains have awful sound. Tatami I bought recently but only driven a little. The train is somewhat underwhelming with poor traction sound but the insidious ATS bell going off constantly passing a caution signal even when you stop at the station and signal ahead. I haven't been back on it but have played TSC way over 2 hours since then, so stuck with it.
     
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