Train Sim World 3 Birmingham - Cheltenham Spa

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by pessitheghost, Dec 2, 2022.

  1. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    A diesel route id love to see set in the 2010s with the XC hsts, route is around 47 miles long. trains to be added include
    170s
    220s
    and update the 43s
     
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  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what this would bring that we don't already have in the recent BCC
    There are only two additional stations (three with Worcestershire Parkway), with most trains not stopping between Birmingham and Cheltenham
    Even extending to Gloucester (another 12 miles) wouldn't add too much to gameplay
     
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  3. seagull81006

    seagull81006 Active Member

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    This route would be better if they extended to Bristol Temple Meads, as it would allow for some Regional Services using Class 165/HST (or 158 if added), as well as allowing a solid length for the Crosscountry services. Plus, if it might also allow for another station (Charfield if it is actually built, and if they release it after if it does hypotheically open). Though, Birmingham - Cheltenham 1950s via Redditch and Ashchurch (+ Tewkesbury branch) would be a nice route
     
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That's just under a hundred miles
     
  5. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    if it’s under a 100 then it’s possible,
     
  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Anything is possible it's just very unlikely
     
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  7. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    if tsw wants to become dovetails FLAGSHIP game then they need to consider routes like that because it attracts players to the game
     
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  8. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

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    A potentially great route would be Gloucester to Bristol Temple Meads including the Severn Tunnel and Newport then back up to Gloucester, that way you have plenty of scope for many various services, set it in the BR blue days and you can have tons of freight too using the massive Severn Tunnel marshaling yards, even set in the 2000's it still works with plenty of service varieties.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They've already got players in the game. They consider their dev cycle and dev costs as much as "what people would really like"
    DTG as train fans want EVERY route in the game, but there's a thing called "reality" which often gets in the way
     
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  10. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    I know that, but what about routes getting suggested by LOADS of people, do yk how many wcml suggestions i’ve seen including mine , ecml, gwe extensions, those are largely requested ?? so at least do the largely requested routes, i’m not saying every route has to be done
     
  11. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    i’d rather it happen modern day tbf
     
  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    WCML and ECML are long, have loads of assets and would likely need to be built in stages, similar to us having a load of 3rd rail assets before BML.
    GWE extensions are mainly "Give us the branches" (no real additional gameplay) or extend to Bristol (again, would need multiple parts) and of course GWE is a "stuck in a moment" thing due to the part electrification... DTG didn't really do themselves any favours on that one
     
  13. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    most people aren’t asking for the full wcml/ecml they’re asking for parts of it (London-Bham), (London-Peterborough), and yes i know the gwe is awfully outdated; but what i’m trying to get at is the fact that tsw only has 1 125mph route, it’s awfully outdated and fans have been crying for a new route, tsw lacks these type of routes, tsw should at least consider adding a few more, it makes the game more interesting , like what’s the point of adding a hst on a 35 mile route, and other countries get spoiled (kassel-wurzburg) and us routes but the uk gets no intercity trains/routes. adding the wcml/ecml is really profitable in my opinion because it appeals to what the users want. Making a 100 mile uk mainline applies to all the niche’s of the community, people can drive short routes, they can do intercity, they can do local/regional and even people that play for passengers and all, the scenarios can be a lot because of distance and rolling stock, it’s a profitable thing to do. i wouldn’t mind dtg increasing the price of a 100 mile route if the route was good, the scenarios were good and the rolling stock was good, i’d pay 30 for a modern day WCML South, and they can give it dlc and all that, i really hope in 2023 more uk routes are added in general because a lot of people download this game/ buy it to see their area. it’s a simulator, dtg should be pushing the limits since we have gen 9 consoles now so power shouldn’t be an issue. I get where you are coming from though, it’s a new game, new engine, new assets but yeah it’s kinda getting boring that there’s no actual intercity routes on tsw 3. hope a major route gets added like a part of the wcml or ecml or even gwml
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
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  14. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    yes i agree, dtg shot themselves in the foot with that route, they could’ve done much better with the stations, OHLE and even distance, tsc goes all the way to oxford, so it would make sense in tsw or they could’ve gone to swindon, that route is too short for a hst. to be honest i’m just waiting for a third party to start developing a route for tsw
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    So let's get this right, you want 100 miles (so London to Birmingham which is 115) with all the stations (about 20) rolling stock (about 10 new trains, some of which compose of 9 separate assets (locos, cars etc)) and you want that for £30...?

    No, my main point was that they got it stuck as a moment in time. With complete OHLE or with no OHLE would have been better for longevity. The level of detail etc was fine for when they made the route several years ago.

    I think you're going to be disappointed with the 3rd party thing given 3rd party has many of the same issues on TSC as DTG do. In fact some of the business practices on TSC are mush WORSE than TSW
     
  16. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    1st i don’t think 10 rolling stock is feasible, in my suggestions for longer routes i always say about 5 at first, if a wcml south route were to come out i alr said the 5 trains would be the 390,350,221 and one freight train, i don’t mind them charging 35 for the whole route + those trains at launch, then over time they add more trains to the meta. If they were to do gwr extension to cardiff all they really need to add are 800s, we already have 387s, Hsts and 166s, if they were to extend it then i wouldn’t mind paying 5-10 extra for a 100 + mile route with 4-5 rolling stock. That’s what i’m saying i agree, tsw came out 2017, at that point in time there were wires up to didcot, idk why dtg didn’t electrify the line. but my point is at least in general dtg don’t have enough intercity routes, we mainly get suburban, dtg have shown us w tsw 3 that they can very much do 100 mile + routes and at least for the gwr to cardiff there’s not too much scenery and assets different from what we already have in game. i get your points but asking for 10+ rolling stock is unrealistic so i always suggest 3-5. im just saying that building a ground up route may take time yes, but it’s all down to whether dtg want to do it . i just want 125mph on longer routes tbh , it doesn’t even have to be 100+ miles, it would be perfect in the 60-90 mile route which is totally achievable before adding 100+ miles. charging 40 pound for the wcml is completely fair. 40 for wcml south 35 for ecml south 40 for a london to cardiff modern day line. and they can then add other rolling stock as dlc. and with the standard that the ecml,gwml and wcml have been built to esp the ecml on alan thomson sim on tsc can be slowly bought in to tsw, and big routes like that would attract tsc users to tsw. it’s win win for everyone involved, because it’s quite profitable in the long run. i mean german routes on average are quite long, they get spoilt with intercity lines and even high speed, the uk only really has the GWE and you do 125 for 20 mins. and to be honest there’s only about 4 100 mile plus routes i’ve suggested (GWE Paddington- Cardiff 2022, WCML London- Birmingham with the northampton branch, Peterborough to York, Penzance -Exeter) my other ones are below 90 or around that, surely it’s not too unrealistic. like i’m just saying that we need 125 mph routes, no more electrostar dc lines for the next year, we have too many. i don’t mind if shorter (50 mile-90) gets added but really and truly tsw 3 would be more interesting with those, it makes the game feel less point to pointish, like imagine how much you could do with routes like those, in conclusion my point is tsw 3 needs more 125 mph routes
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
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  17. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Bear in mind the first section from New Street to Bromsgrove already exists. Would be quite nice hammering through there and then getting out to some rolling countryside (which is surely easier to model than dense city)...
     
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  18. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    it’s not even that it’s timetables that take most of the devs time
     
  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget DTG have yet to do a route extension of this type. The TSW3 SEHS didn't extend the old version, it was in essence a rebuild with additions...
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This isn't true. Dev time is taken up with making the trains and making the systems work, laying out the signalling and making all of that work, scenic and non-secenic interactions etc etc
    Yes timetables take time but from what Matt said it took basically one person to make the whole of the BML timetable and they're training up another person to do this now, so if a couple of people can do them solo, the other hundred people in the company must be doing something
     
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    DTG really only do 1 MU per route, maybe with a loco as well. The reason we got two with BML is the 377 already existed and the 387 is the same train with very few differences mechanically

    Cardiff from Bristol would require more than that. Do you know the area at all?
    You'd need 158, 153, 150, 170 as well as class 70 and 60 for freight. TfW also operate 175s on the SWML

    Not really. DTG have shown they can do long routes with few stations on them. The problem with all the suggestions I am seeing is people want long routes with lots of stations, and DTG don't do both. The longest routes in the game are high speed but with only three or four stations on the whole length.
    Paddington to Cardiff = 27 stations over 145 miles. HS stop at 6 of them
    Euston to Birmingham (via Northampton) = 29 stations over 115 miles. HS sometimes don't stop at ANY
    Kings X to Peterborough = 25 stations over 76 miles. HS sometimes don't stop at ANY

    Hmm... that ATS route has major issues of it's own. In fact its the route which stopped me playing TSC entirely, mainly because people expected it to be great but missing speed boards, signals, and one way track issues put paid to that

    Penzance to Exeter would probably need to be the first of those routes which would give us the 158 and 153 but then we already have PNZ from Rivet, so it's unlikely. More likely would be Plymouth to Exeter

    125mph routes are the most boring soulless routes with nothing to do. You get up to high speed and then what?
    Where's the gameplay here?
    Half the time you set the speed limiter and can go make a coffee or walk the dogs. Come back and you're still on green lights with nothing changed.
     
  22. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't be an extension, it would be a whole new route that just happened to re-use the Bromsgrove to New Street section of BCC (and added AI traffic layers to it).

    I believe the main barrier to extensions as we usually discuss them is what to do with the services which previously ended at the point before the extension. If BCC were to be extended, eg with 170 DLC services to Worcester, it wouldn't affect any of the existing 323 services which all legitimately terminate at Bromsgrove, however, this isn't even what I'm suggesting here.
     
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  23. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    i mean it’s not only 125 mph intercity i’m asking for, i’m also asking for commuter and regional, adding routes like that cater to every type of person, you want a short route you got it, want freight, you got it, it’s killing two birds with one stone, me now i love 125 mph routes i love getting different angles and going fast, adding a route like that appeals to a lot of people, that’s why i suggest a commuter train/regional train. it’s all about appeal
     
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  24. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    still it takes a lot of time, probably equal to building the route.
     
  25. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    adding a route like that is something the community has been suggesting since tsw 2020, i promise you if they added a route like that they’d make profit. as long as the route is intricate and doesn’t feel rushed.
     
  26. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    ATS Ecml south was one of the routes i used to play the most back then and i must say the ecml south was quite detailed, most lag came down to the engine of tsc. And regarding bristol temple meads, you can use the castle hsts, 166s and 800/802 trains. it won’t be quiet at all. with a gwe to cardiff there is SO MUCH that can be done, id prefer if JT did it
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't pay for the route again. They would essentially be doubling the timetable work and selling people that which they'd already paid for. No thanks

    This won't happen without the foundational assets first.
     
  28. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    for a london - birmingham route, what exactly do you think is missing in assets ?
     
  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Class 350, Class 390, Class 710
    Miscellaneous classes that operate north and west of London from East Anglia, Wales etc
     
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  30. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    these are things that dovetail can do ? nothing too crazy
     
  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    hmm...
    Class 350 is four assets, 390/0 is 7, 390/1 uses the same assets as the 390/0, 710 is also four
    So just to make those 3 MUs DTG have to make 15 different train assets... That's quite a lot
     
  32. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    it’s a lot, but it’s reasonable
     
  33. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, that was my original point. From an engineering point of view, it makes perfect sense to build BCC, then extend down to Bristol or Hereford or whatever, but it's a much harder sell from a marketing perspective.

    The Worcester/Malvern/Hereford bit, you could probably do as a train DLC for BCC which also happened to extend the route a bit, but if you're doing Birmingham to Bristol with XC trains, that's got to be its own release - you can't market a Cross Country route as an extended section of BCC, it doesn't make sense. So you reach an impasse - the fact that you wouldn't pay again for the section which already exists in BCC precludes them from ever doing a bigger, high speed route which takes in that section of track (even though the people who own BCC would love to see the XC Voyagers hurtling past).

    The perfect solution would have been to do the XC Bristol to New Street bit first, really front-loading the development of the built-up city and all of its stations (which the route would make no use of), then release the local service 323 as an add-on and extension to Lichfield, perhaps followed up by the 170 add on with an extension past Worcester, recovering some of the initial costs that way. Unless you only ever take a totally different route out from the key station - as with Brighton on ECW/BML - you'll get complaints about paying again for the same route.

    Edit to add: Having said all that, if the next release was the full monty Bristol to Birmingham New Street with an XC 170/220 combo, and did reuse the Bromsgrove to New Street section, while layering in the trains as AIs when I drive the BCC route, and have 323s buzzing about while I was driving in from Bristol, I probably would buy that. :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022
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  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The perfect solution would be dynamic timetables where the game determines the DLC being used as well as those available around it, and then builds the timetable from that data so if you have Brum to Brom and Brom to Bristol on your system it would make the timetable accordingly.
    Unfortunately it seems that's not how timetables work in TSW right now
     
  35. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    i think a wcml wouldve made more sense than a xc bristol - bns line, it would have made new street more lively than it is, imagine running 350s, 390s, 319s along with 323’s
     
  36. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    i feel like dynamic timetables should’ve long been a feature on tsw
     
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Difference is that Bristol has a lot more "non specific stock" so you could build from it more easily than Euston
    The 350s and 390s are all fairly limited in where they run
    With sprinters, turbostars, networkers, HSTs, IEPs etc you can populate loads more of the country without the need to develop more from scratch
     
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  38. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    you can argue that for the wcml
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not really.
    The London end is banal, the Midlands is OK but the WCML bypasses Birmingham in reality so you end up with 350s again and then up north you might get more assets, but I haven't seen too many people asking for Lancaster or Carlisle
     
  40. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    what about the ecml?
     
  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Go back ten years, much better
    Thameslink & Great Northern had 700s and 319s and a few others, HSTs, 91s, and so on on the intercity routes, Come forward a few and you get 180s on Hull Trains and Grand Central

    Nowdays it's mainly electrostars, 700s and IETs
     
  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Go further north and it's more interesting except for the huge section in the middle where it's ONLY IETs until you get almost to York
     
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  43. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Rubbish!! There are still plenty of 180 services along with the 225s which compliment the Azumas. I don't understand why people have such a dislike to the Azumas as although you'll never beat a Deltic, I rather warmed to them especially when they were in service at the same time as HSTs. The Peterborough to York section is what I would like to see in game most no matter the era.
     
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  44. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    perfect time to set it would be 2019/2020 era, IETs, 365s,385s,315s,HSTs,91s, 180s we could go on
     
  45. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    After the APT, the azuma is probably my next favourite train, i’ve grown awfully fond of them, especially the LNER ones, i commute to welwyn daily and see them and they’re just :love:
     
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  46. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    not only IETS, there’s 180s, 91s, HSTs up in doncaster, the TPE fleet,150s, go further up and there’s even more
     
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  47. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    that’s why. 2019 is the perfect time to set it, apart from hsts getting taken off, i must say i’m quite fond of this era, but if it were to be added to tsw the electrostar/IET/700 era is the easiest to do logistically
     
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  48. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Yes they do look very stylish and modern.
     
  49. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    i must say, the trains seats are quite piss-poor compared to its predecessors. at least the seating needs to be fixed, especially on gwr, comfier seats maybe ?
     
  50. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I haven't traveled on the GW sets though I know someone who works on them and he says they are shocking. On EC sets it is rare I travel as a passenger but when I have the interior ambiance is nice and the seats aren't too bad. I do see where you're coming from though mate.
     

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