GWR electrification only goes as far as Swindon and Cardiff, not to Plymouth, Hereford nor Swansea as of yet
yes i know, but i feel like the government could’ve initially electrified it that far don’t you think
The electrification was the usual 21st century uk government disaster. Horrendously overbudget with terrible mismanagement. Coupled with private firms charging ridiculous prices as they know the government will pay. If you ever get a chance take a look at some of the masts. Colossal gantries sometimes only holding up wires for one track. Therefore they had to cut back significantly on their plans and reduce the size of the scheme. The same story with HS2, cutting the extensions back to save a proportionally small amount of money compared to the whole project, which will leave the country suffering in the long term.
For me electrification should happen anywhere there's more than twenty trains a day on a line. This would allow for faster, lighter trains to travel on the system and reduce costs overall by sharing rolling stock The main problem in the UK is that we have changes in government every five years, so they only need to really promise that far ahead. Anything with foresight is too long...
i agree, i believe the gwr electrification programme was an example of how not to run an electrification programme, i believe that them shelving the swansea - cardiff electrification plan was a bad decision.
and electrifying diesel routes has somewhat become more important due to the decarbonisation plan. this is why i believe the uk should have a rolling electrification programme. you can read more on it here https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmtrans/876/87606.htm
We once led the way with railway electrification, as we did with many things. Now it feels like we are living in the ruins of a former civilisation.
All UK lines should/could've been electrified by now. When I see the costs of some of these projects spiralling out of control I often wonder what the politicians are taking! Then I remember they all get a peice of the cake.
Honestly i blame the government as well, how have germany and france almost got complete electrification, but we have mainlines that still run on diesel , i blame the government and Richard Beeching for this
What, the UK government not making the decisions which are best for the most people??? How could that ever be the case?! (note serious levels of sarcasm)
lmaooo, i agree. On a serious note i really wish they gave the gwr electrification programme the same energy as the ecml/wcml electrification programme, it was rapid, covered large amounts of route and profitable
I'm sure some politician somewhere made money from the lines between London and Scotland. Far less traffic down to Cornwall though
there’s far less traffic, i wholly agree but it makes sense to make it electric. 387s doing stoppers to bedwyn makes sense because more capacity for gwr which is horribly overcrowded. electrification of the line to exeter would solve the problem because more bimodes can be used on the crammed routes
Yeah I think the main problem is the politicians! They have a hand in most of these firms that do the work. Well actually the main problem is the public for continously being bent over and accepting it.
The modernisation plan was too late, introducing prototype diesels in the 50’s and 60’s when many countries had successful locomotives in use for decades was shortsighted. Steam trains built less than a decade before were then scrapped. Riddles’s standard designs were as reliable and fast as the new diesel locomotives, albeit a little more expensive to operate and repair. They should of continued with steam and gone straight to electrification. Only using diesels for remote lines where electric at ion could be added later. The UK government almost always chooses the cheapest and quickest option and never looks ahead. That’s why we get lumbered with new trains that have no semblance of passenger comfort.
I don't see why electrification is needed down towards the south West. There would be countless delays between Exeter and Newton Abbot. Though electrification should of been extended to Swansea.
it’s a busy line, there’s a lot of activity on it, to free up faster iets it should be electric so it covers slow and fast trains
i agree, this is why the uk won’t move forward. they spend billions on war but chicken change on developing transport/ other amenities
No reason why you couldn’t install third rail past Exeter. Line speeds are pretty low most of the way to Penzance and it would preserve the beauty of the landscape. It would also solve the issue of several low bridges and tunnels. If this was the case no doubt we’d have something like the javelin which could switch between the third rail and overheads.
Third rail is impractical. and i said extend wires to exeter or to plymouth then have battery trains run the rest of the line to penzance
What makes it impractical over wires? No ugly masts, nothing can fall down, no delicate pantographs, no need to demolish and build new bridges and tunnels? The only downside I can think of is it’s a lot more dangerous for track workers and locals trespassing. You can also not really go above 100mph but that’s not a problem past Exeter. Since the current battery trains trialled by GWR for the London branches have failed to even reach the mileage required to start testing because they are constantly failing, I don’t see battery operation being practicable anytime soon. Particularly on the steep gradients of Devon and Cornwall.
as i said i don’t want ohle past plymouth preferably, it shouldn’t be a problem electrifying that part of the route. if they could electrify the wcml over shap, they can very much do that part of the route, third rail isn’t as practical as OHLE in the sense that there are so much limitations to third rail
OHLE is more energy efficient OHLE is much safer OHLE needs less maintaining OHLE has less feeder stations. OHLE has space for higher speed OHLE has better acceleration when it comes to leaving stations OHLE has longer life
True- thanks to the higher voltage True The third rail is a lot less delicate and requires less maintenance. The pantographs required for OHLE are also extremely expensive and fragile. You also need massive infrastructure changes to fit the OHLE. True thanks to the higher voltages, although when the power goes out it means you have less flexibility. Don’t need the higher speed past Exeter. If you are going East tho then definitely OHLE is better. Better acceleration defiantly on OHLE, but any electric acceleration is better than diesel. Not necessarily at all, particularly in the harsh weather conditions of the south west where the wires are going to be subject to intense wind and temperature changes. Looks like there’s a fairly even argument for third rail or OHLE in Devon and Cornwall. Although personally I would want OHLE almost everywhere like in Europe.
third rail installation is also expensive with electrical feeds much more frequent, making sure that the gaps in the rails are sufficient to stop power blocks etc So fitting third rail would be a massive infrastructure job too Not sure whether 3rd rail offers more flexibility when the power goes out over OHLE...
They say hydrogen is the future although it's not much, if at all cleaner than diesel at present. But if you make a fleet of trains that run on a hydrogen fuel cell there's no need for third rail or ole.
third rail is more for metro/ areas with high population density. if you want 140 on intercity lines , the lines will have to be electrified. i’m for 140 mph on the mainline so i’m pro electrification
I’m only going by my experience but the shorter sections mean we can coast over them when the power is out because of damage or routine maintenance. The large gaps on OHLE make this difficult usually unless it’s on a 100mph + line. But don’t get me wrong I prefer OHLE, we were just discussing beyond Exeter.
In the UK 3rd rail extends from London to the Kent Coast, Brighton, Portsmouth and Southampton including many rural areas I live in Gillingham and from then on the density of stations (and people) is a lot less then towards London
That’s mostly why they are getting rid of the HST Castle sets next year. Partly a parts shortage but mostly because having two power cars pushing just 4 coaches is not good for their emissions footprint. Likely to be replaced by TFW surplus 158’s and IET’s freed from the main line by 387’s. This creates the issue that the smaller stations will not be able to accept disabled passengers as the accessible area on a Class 80x will be off the platform. Once again buying a train that is not designed for the uk, or indeed British people at all, has turned out to be a mistake. Meaning most people travelling along the Paddington-Cardiff corridor will be treated to an awful 387- not for me thanks! What a railway we have!
Not really Just looked up some numbers and other than Ashford the major East Kent coast stations all run at about 1m pax a year, the smaller stations 300k or so, so call that 1000 people a day Further in towards london you average 3m or so per year (Dartford 4.6m in 2018/19)
True, it does depend on where the electricity is produced but they are alot more environmentally friendly than Desil trains.
Yes, electric trains are vastly more efficient overall than diesel electrics. One big generator is more efficient than many small ones. Carting round liquified dinosaurs is also an inefficient use of power, which electric trains don't have to do, so even with the additional infrastructure required to get power to the train, it's still less inefficient than having to get oil out of the ground, cart it around the world, then put it into ever smaller vessels until it's in the thing you need to blow it up, only to then turn it into electricity anyway
