Bremen - Oldenburg - No Manual

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by eldomtom2, Dec 6, 2022.

  1. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    1,828
    Oh dear. I had hoped that Birmingham Cross-City having one was a positive sign, but it looks like DTG are back to their bad old ways.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,011
    Likes Received:
    2,103
    A manual would be useful, I’m still trying to find the darn wiper controls on the 110! :|
     
  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,729
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    :(
     
  4. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Messages:
    2,389
    Likes Received:
    4,263
    It’s these two switches
    FCF5C095-1FAD-41B6-9D33-17C0010F9CA8.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  5. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    2,138
    That was probably copied from TS, seems like thats the only way TSW gets manuals, weird approach if you ask me…
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    It's either a half baked manual or to not release it at all. The manual they were going to release bro with would not have helped anyone so they left it out completely. they want to do manuals for each route but that depends on many factors really since manuals need to be detailed and stuff
     
  7. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    1,828
    And your source is...?
     
  8. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    December roadmap. There was a question about the lack of manual in bro and that was Matt's answer
     
  9. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    1,828
    In that case, my response to Matt is that a) this did not stop them making manuals for the four previous TSW3 routes, and b) "we couldn't be bothered to put the effort in" is hardly a good defense.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  10. rjeeves#3580

    rjeeves#3580 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2020
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    215
    To be fair to matt he didn't say they couldn't be bothered. He just said they didn't want to put out a "half baked" manual.
    I for one am not too bothered by this. I'd prefer to see a manual but if we had one an information was missing I'd get more annoyed.
     
  11. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    1,828
    That, by definition, is an admission that they can't or won't put resources into making a good manual. There's no iron law of the universe preventing them from making a good manual.
    But even a half-****d manual would probably at least have stuff like cab control locations...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. zugschiene

    zugschiene New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2022
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    8
    Dear Dovetail Management Brothers here,

    i have some Questions, is it possible to create a real machine room with buttons like in real and the working mechanic infront of one? Is it possible to input a real up and down gear sound like this real one: youtube.com/watch?v=8v9TCnF3lRw You could adapt this Sound for the Models E10/39/40/50 because they have the same Sound from the N28h Machine.
    At the Rotlinge on the TSW 3 Oldenburg Bremen Track, the word "Baden-Württemberg" is written wrong at the vehicle. And the Automatic Door between the two Waggons are Ghosty, you can go through without an animation. It would be great if do you can make the real old mechanic sound happen DTG.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2022
  13. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    The problem with machine rooms is that unless dtg have actual access to the train itself as in going inside the train which is unable to happen most of the time, they can't really replicate it in game. Also, engine rooms are quite complex to make since they do have a lot of stuff in them. That would just take up too much dev time and doesn't really add much to the game. Sure, you can enter some engine rooms, but the interior design is very simplified due to not having the reference material and other reasons such as not being allowed to enter the engine room, being too complicated or not having visited the train in person.

    And in terms of the 110 version we have in game, it has a newer style of tap changer, so you don't really hear anything in the cab. The older version of the 110 has loud, audible clacks in the driving cabin, but the in game version is a different version of the 110. Maik and his team, aka TSG, who made the locomotive explained it.
     
  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,729
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Another disadvantage to modeling engine rooms is that all of those complex 3D assets are in the model, even if not seen, even on AI trains, and all consume processor cycles and negatively impact framerate.
     
  15. zugschiene

    zugschiene New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2022
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    8
    I would be happy if they bring later a E10 Model with the Original Clockwork Sounds from the Gears. They could show the Machine room Panel in 2D like for the BR182 Tauraus RWA Model in TS. Its sad, that is complicated to give us the real experience from the past. Only the new one of technique is complete. I missed the old Mechanic knowers, what make it happen. All the othe new ones from today, bet you each company. But bring the old, thats a specially art!
     
  16. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    I would enjoy that too. It comes down to what they have access to in terms of sounds and maybe prevalence But I really enjoy having true older content.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. e.leerentveld

    e.leerentveld Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2021
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    90
    Doesn't the Koblenz museum have an E10/110 on display? I'm sure they have a bunch of photos from the engine room too.


    Edit: I just realised Google exists and I checked: the E10 121 and the E10 300 as well as the E10 348 are indeed on display at Koblenz.


    Edit: that site has lots of info on the collection in Koblenz. Turns out they've got quite the collection of E10/110s, including the E10 005 (which is from the pre-production series and looks quite different).
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    Getting into a E10/110 is not the problem. The complexity of such a engine room is the problem. Not only dev-time wise but also the negative performance impact that it brings. It's a no-go at the moment. Simple engine-rooms like on modern TRAXX are doable. But also there you have to leave out a lot of stuff like the air-frame with all its pipes and valves.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. zugschiene

    zugschiene New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2022
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    8
    Would it be possible to display the control cabinet as a 2D image animation? Then you would not need to represent a machine space.

    Will you still implement the old upshift noise of the E10/39/40/50 family, which I linked in the first post, as a video? This would allow you to move all standard electric locomotives, except for the E41, which has a different noise to convert.

    For the TSW, the locomotives would be an enrichment and an incentive to buy if these locomotives would take a step forward, in the presentation.
     
  20. zugschiene

    zugschiene New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2022
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    8
    The Koblenz Museum have the E10 and other sister locomotives of the german Bundesbahn.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    Like Maik said, it is difficult to make the engine room really detailed. Remember that would still have to be modeled and an animation is even more work which takes up unnecessary dev time. It doesn't even add anything to the gameplay cuz there are more important things than modeling an engine room 1:1 which has a huge performance impact. I don't think he would implement the old upshift noise. Youtube videos are not sources Maik can use. He can only use real recordings performed by professional technology. And it is not as simple as just doing sounds. The physics and locomotive and everything else that goes into making a locomotive would change. And he has million other things to do and a personal life, so what's already been released is what you will get.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2022
  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,729
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    As has been explained by Maik and others, the "old upshift noises" were gone by the 2000s; all the surviving Einheitsloks had been upgraded to new systems that didn't make the noise. It's a bit like complaining that the HSTs on Great Western don't have the Valenta scream- well, they wouldn't.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2019
    Messages:
    1,132
    Likes Received:
    3,484
    A manual would suggest DTG is interested in completing a product before sending it out the door. But as we know all too well, it's "get that money" and "maybe we'll fix / add things later".
     
    • Like Like x 3
  24. zugschiene

    zugschiene New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2022
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    8
    What is a steam locomotive without steam locomotive noises? I would also pay extra for 3DZUG to include this addition. Get in touch with the Youtube channel if the sounds are such that you can use them faithfully.

    Furthermore, you still miss the conductor with the pipe in his mouth, who prepares the train with trowel or light?

    Please deliver all this for Train Simulator Classic as well. You should get the money for what the effort costs. The train fans out there will thank you. ;)
     
  25. zugschiene

    zugschiene New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2022
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    8
    But the old sound of the clockwork is that in the case, what catch your child heart. Like a Steam loco, same emotions.
     
  26. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    Maybe he didn't have sound recordings for that. Sound isn't an easy thing to implement. You got to accept that he won't add a new soundset if he doesn't have the recordings. He has millions other things on his plate
     
  27. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    Like dtg have said, increase in price doesn't mean increase in quality
     
  28. michael2960

    michael2960 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2022
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why is it so expensive in the first place? and why isn't it on Winter Sale either?
     
  29. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    What is not on winter sale? If you are talking about bremen oldenburg, it recently came out and steam doesn't allow sales to happen soo soon.
     
  30. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,503
    Likes Received:
    2,069
    Yep! Another thread derailed!! R-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  31. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    Quite late to the party lol.
     
  32. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    3,735
    Probably im alone with this opinion, or maybe its because i work in the railway insustry.

    Try and figure out the things in tsw was part of the real fun for me, for example making a run with scenario planner and make tests on the rolling stock etc.
    What can be more imersing than if your blocking the line and have to figure out how to move your consist after an emergency brake for example. Using the brain to figure out that there might be an open door on the emu is just more fun to me tha "read" the solution directly out of a manual.

    I agree a proper manual for saftey systems would be helpful for newcomers, but i personally dont need a document for every new train. DTG rather should spend time to finish the actual route.

    Again, here i speak only for my self, i can understand without any knowledge in railroading people might be lost in space.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  33. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    1,828
    Well, somehow I doubt that real drivers are left to work things out themselves...
     
  34. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    3,735
    Even if somebody is up to play with most accurate procedures / driving practices, there is plenty of free informations to find on the internet. On top more detailed than a sim / sim manual ever can get.

    I like the philosophy of dtg, they deliver the sim & trains in a hopefully accurate representation, but how you get to use them its not up to their "responsibility". What many missunderstand is, they sell not the "we make a train driver out of you" package.

    Well nice if they actually takes the time to create a user manual from time to time, but seems people are really not used to make an effort anymore to get somewhere.

    Im out of this discussion, seems pointless ;)
     
  35. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    1,828
    A lot of locos don't have manuals etc. available online - and of course in many cases there is going to be a language barrier.
     
  36. mareclodaniel

    mareclodaniel New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2022
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    3
    The manual they were going to release bro with would not have helped anyone so they left it out completely.



     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2023
  37. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    1,622
    Likes Received:
    1,828
    I have already responded to people saying this.
     
  38. zugschiene

    zugschiene New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2022
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    8
    actually the specially events starts. That would be a chance to ask one of the train clubs to get in a BR110 N28h , for make some professional sounds? AKE is a famous train club with a lot of drive services around of cologne through Germany. The locos you find near cologne Hansaring, at the loco service point.
     

Share This Page