So let me beginn with a short disclosure that this might end up as a bit of a rant. Anyway, I have just returned to the journey mode of this route and finished the first timetable service after the LZB introduction and came to the conclusion that this route is the absolute worst of all the ones I have and I do own both LIRR and RT. The service I did was a dual ICE 3 run, however for some reason limited to a top speed of 200 by LZB for the whole time. Let me start of with the one positve thing and this is that the stations are nicely done and with the layers at least Kassel and Würzburg can get quite busy which is a good thing. So the stations are good, all three of them and that is where my whole beef begins. There is really nothing more than that. The whole rest of the route is an automatic train snooze fest as bad as it can be. Half the time you are in a tunnel, which must not be a bad thing, look at the Bakerloo Line, the other half is the most generic German landscape you can get. If you want to know how Germany looks in average, thats it. On the whole route it never really changes, you get a long tunnel and either emerge to a short cutting with some gras and trees to both sides of it, or a viaduct with the ever same landscape next to it. Repeat this for an hour and this is the whole experience you get. This brings me to the point, that the length of a route does not matter at all, its the stations and services etc. that do. We now have gotten Bremen - Oldenburg, which is lovely, despite being less than a fourth of the length, however with a lot more stations, different services and completely different rolling stock. Same goes for other routes. In my oppinion SEHS and Köln - Aachen are perfect examples of how to integrate high speed trains into a route and yet be interesting. And speaking of high speed, 200 km/h is really not that fast to begin with. Thats HST or ACS-64 level of speed. Even the 280 km/h top speed of this route is still not up there, so it does not even do a good thing when it comes to speed, not that this really matters anyway. Just to get this out of the way, I did not expect this route to be my favorite when I bought it, but as I already owned SEHS and while liking US heavy freight locos, I also do not really enjoy driving the low speeds with them, this was just my pick for TSW3. In retrospect, I should have probably went with SoS instead, because this has been the biggest let down of all. LIRR and RT are in a really bad shape at the moment, but they at least have a chance to improve. This one not at all. By the way if this route was only done out of spite for those crying for longer routes all the time, hats off, that was a good one. Edit: Merry Christmas to all.
I think you're forgetting LGV route: - it's half the length of SKW; - same number of stations; - comes with a single train, the TGV, while SKW comes with ICE1, ICE3 and the 185; - has no freight stuff, and no layers from other DLCs; Beyond "take this train from Marseille to Avignon" or the other way back, there's not much else to do! And don't mention the Marseille yard, and the "Leave depot" and "Return to depot" missions, they're the most boring stuff I've ever done. In my book, the SKW is much better value than LGV. I can't compare it with LIRR or RT, as I don't own them.
You are actually right, I did not think about LGV alot. However if I compare them, the half length is actually a plus on that, as that means its over faster. While yes, SKW does come with three trains, they all have the same German standard cab and thus operate pretty much equally on LZB, thus I am not going to give it a credit for that. Would be a bit different on a PZB line. In general I do prefer the TGV driving, as it is a tad less automated and the automatic speed control is just not able to cope with the gradients of that line, requering some more intervention from the driver. In general I would rate LGV slightly above SKW, but that means it is still very much at the bottom of my route ranking.
I kind of like Kassel-Wurzburg. I much prefer stopping commuter services, so those make up most of my DLC, but I like the relaxing nature of Kassel-Wurzburg. Of course, you can only really enjoy a route like this if the scenery is done right (which it may not be on the lowest graphics settings) because it means while the train drives itself (with the occasional glance at the dashboard to make sure everything is alright) you can look outside and enjoy the scenery. Weirdly, I also enjoy the tunnel sections. The point is, it makes a nice change for me against the hands-on nature of steam and the Bakerloo Line and Naverkehr Dresden and London Commuter.
If you want to insist on that, I am not running on the lowest graphic settings, actually on pretty high ones. I also don't think the scenery is of low quality, it just does not change at all for the complete hour drive.
Different people like different things. I really like both LGV and Kassel Wurzburg. I also like Long freight runs with no stops. Fortunately DTG is catering for both long and short routes this year. So while route length is not important for everyone, it is to some of us. That’s why I still like TSC. It still has many more longer runs.
A lot of people complained that the past high speed routes were too short. Hma, ska, sehs, lgv. The journeys only lasted about 30 minutes so the experience was over quite quickly. You didn't really get the feeling of a high speed route. So dtg wanted to get out a true high speed route where it's long and you can go fast and stretch your legs a little. Sure, it may be boring and autopilot does everything for you but that's just real life and lzb doing it's thing. However, many players demanded a high speed route where you can get to high speed and go fast for a while. So dtg listened to that community. Not everyone likes it but to those who do, they are satisfied. Like American freight wish is extremely boring and not many people play it but there are people who enjoy it.
Seems like I am one if the only people that would take a Dedicated highspeed route over a commuter route any day. Wonderful!
SKW also has several freight services (at night) and you can stretch the legs of the 101 (if you own it).
Kassel-Wurzburg is actually an excellent route. I can see why it isn’t to everyone’s taste but it is well done and has a fair bit of variety. If driving at high speed through tunnels isn’t your thing then it isn’t going to become your favourite. It’s a grower though. The more you use it the better it gets. The ICE 3 services are the best because you have to slow for some viaducts and driving without AFB is the way to get most enjoyment out of this route. Freight is mainly at night but the services themselves are interesting enough. Play them in the snow and give yourself a good challenge of getting up those hills.
I also love Kassel-Wurzburg and think this is one of the best routes released by DTG. This route has it all, length, variety, diverse scenery, high details and comes with the beautiful and unique ICE1. The long runs are perfect and even give a chance to dynamic weather to show its best (when its not broken and does not change at all that is). While i also like doing some stopping services from time to time, the ones where you need to stop at 1-2 miles or less constantly are quite annoying and remind me more of a tram driver.
Different routes offer different tasks and show different aspects of railway operations. Naturally, we have different tastes and we won't like everything, but the variety of routes is what DTG ultimately want and I think this is the right choice. That said, when you think about it, high speed routes would indicate few station stops and also a lot of tunnels since high speed isn't compatible with track curvature. In order to cover a great distance in a reasonable amount of time these are the requirements and to be disappointed by these just seems like you don't prefer these kind of routes. But it certainly doesn't make them a bad choice to model. In my opinion, KWG is the best high speed route to date. Bottom line, I guess I just want to say that you talk about personal preference more than the actual quality of the route.
Having read the post again, I do actually agree with what the OP is TRYING to say: route length is irrelevant to whether or not a route is good or not. Instead, they (and I) prefer a "task per mile" view to routes, where as long as there is something to do every step of the way, the length of a route doesn't really matter (it does a bit obviously, a 2 mile route would be quite sad, unless it was a shunting-based route), but even if the route is only 15 miles, as long as there is plenty of action, it doesn't matter much, because the task per mile figure is reasonably high. A route like Kassel-Wurzburg, where LZB and AFB dominate the route, the "task per mile" figure is very low, so if you are looking for a route with constant adjustments to speed and braking, this one probably is not for you. I maintain, however, that I like Kassel-Wurzburg for its own reasons, but the so-called "task per mile" figure is why I prefer commuter runs over express runs. I am sorry that I missed what I now think is the point of this post, but the rant on KWG did stand out.
SKW is okay, but I do think it was a bit oversold on the length given 50% of the route is in tunnel. If they had given a section of the Rhine Valley equal to that distance, then that would have been something. Like many TSW routes, it's good in small doses, dip into occasionally then do something else. The freight runs are okay, the ones I've done, but tempered by the fact they are usually at night so there is even less to see than on the high speed daytime runs. One thing I don't do now is use AFB to control the speed as you just end up arriving 10 minutes early at each station.
Length matters, that's what the ex wife said anyway! I agree that a long route with not much to do isn't as good as a short route with lots to do. I often wonder if dtg picked that route because A there's not a lot of stations to model and B it's mostly in tunnels so modelling terrain was easier too. I still would like to see some long routes though. But not A-B high speed runs. Something like for example... London to Brighton then Brighton to Hastings or bognor or something along those lines. Or something like a stretch of mainline that has several branch lines amounting to 100 miles or more.
Or the route I just bought for TSC - Stainmore and Eden from Steam Sounds Supreme. Or indeed the superb Wear Valley network, also for TSC.
Both fine examples yes. I don't own the stainmore route yet but wear valley is one of my favourites on tsc. There's examples like this all over the world.
I do like SKW. I think longer routes are fine, as long as the gameplay is enjoyable. SKW is an IC/ICE line so it doesn’t feature playable local services but it does give the ICE trains a good long, run. Previously, we only had SKA & HMA to run ICE trains but those runs were over before you could get into them. I think a great choice for a future long German route would be Hamburg - Hannover. It’s about 90km rather than being over a 100km but it would make up for that with service variety.
well, in aspect of speed, if you enjoy timetables, set weather clean to light rain let you can accelerate over 250~280kph if my memory is correct. ICE 1 is bit slow to speed up to overcome 250kph margin, but ICE 3 can reach up to 280kph. that 200kph barrier was a thing for me too because i usually play in harsh weather and LZB reacted just same.
Sorry, but no. There is no diverse scenery to be found on that route and the ICE1 is in the mix of rolling stock we have, absolutely not unique. Thank you, at least someone got it. Althought the rant about KWG still stands, as apart from the type of driving, I also do have my particular problem with the route itself, due to the aformentioned problem of the ever repeating scenery.
If you want more tasks per mile switch PZB off. I think it’s a good route. for me I am quite taken by the variety of valley views there are and the way high speed allows you to enjoy those moving passed you. I’m quite jealous of the idea that the real drivers can get to enjoy these views whilst not having to worry about too much more than Sifa. at end of day it is what the route is, it can’t be other than a high speed route. At least it also carries freight. The ice1 feels a lot more heavy like the hst, first gen high speed and I like the variety that brings too.
This is my point of view as well. KWG is by no means a bad route, and it brings a very unique train into the mix, but there really isn’t a lot to do if you drive the route realistically.
KWG shows off quite some sophistication in the way LZB works and is implemented, the reactions of speed restrictions to weather conditions and the changeover to a freight timetable at night. It's a really good route for what it is, and to be that I do think it also needed that length. It however is a specific type of content, that of high speed rail traffic at day and heavy freight at night, both with far stretching LZB supervision. I'm really hapoy with the route, and that it exists, but it also fulfills my desire for German high speed for the forseeable future. I do prefer routes like SKA because they have more variation, with both LZB and PZB sections, speed differences and adverse signals combined with a now (post new journeys) very nice timetable with filled up yards. RSN and DCZ are also quite good at providing a slower but very challenging drive with grades and curves and great scenery. DRA and HMA provide a variation of express freight, regional and S-bahn running (though DRA does this with a considerably more interesting timetable, better scenery and more AI traffic). And like that there are many more (German) routes that each fulfill a certain aspect of railway life. KWG fills up an aspect that no other route can do as well due to the sheer volume of traffic and the variation between high speed and frieght. However, going forward I'd either like something even more vintage than BOB or perhaps a section of the rollbahn between the Ruhr, Bremen and Hamburg, or something like Hamburg-Hannover. So basically a very upgraded classical line that is filled to the brim with traffic. Or perhaps something like the Geislinger steige, with a lot of traffic but challenging terrain. To go back to my point though, Kassel-Würzburg is a great route at what it's trying to be. I really enjoy it myself, but it's a niche that not all players are into. I also don't think we need more routes like it, as KWG is so good at what it is that it can fulfill that niche for quite a while without leaving a desire for more.
For me the shorter routes like BCC and the new German route are nice, since they give a full length run in about an hour or less.
This is why i always suggest mainlines, Mainlines have a balance of everything (Intercity, High Speed, Freight, Commuters, Shuttles and Regional services) I'd have a 70 mile route with all of the things aforementioned would make the route more interesting rather than tunnels and viaducts with nothing interesting for miles
I do enjoy SKW, though i'll be honest it's not anywhere in my most-played routes. I generally agree with OP's "task per mile" way of evaluating a route, but sometimes that rubric doesn't work. SKW is really the only proper high-speed route in the game, and it's fine for it to highlight those features, even though it's very low "task per miles". Conversely, Rivet's Island Line 2022 is both low-mileage and low "task per mile", but i still admire what they were going for with a totally self-contained little layout. As far as driving enjoyment, i really prefer mixed traffic, so the recent Bremen-Oldenburg gets high marks, as well as the SEHS extension. Brighton Mainline is a little light on freight but the overall traffic volume more than makes up for it. Dresden-Riesa might be my overall fave and TVL gets a good shout. Fingers crossed for some TSW3 upgrades for at least a couple of those.
I would take a commuter route over a dedicated high speed route. At least those people are pleased with the release of skw lol. There should be a good balance between high speed an commuter. Sometimes, do a dedicated high speed route. Sometimes a varied commuter route.
Honestly a mainline balances this out, (Koln to Aachen) as there is a mixture of high speed and commuter, this is why i mainly suggest mainline routes, you have125mph running with commuter, regional and freight, that's what gives routes more life to the game, hopefully with the recent survey they'd understand that's what appeals to most people here. Then again i want a well done route, I'd rather have a route every 6 months done to a well done standard than the current things we get, that's why i emphasized mainlines on the survey and got people to keep suggesting mainlines. I only would say that if dtg add a mainline, they consider things like length realistically they should be aiming for a 80+ mile route
Fair enough, everyone has their preferences but what I would like is it to be evenly split like a few freight routes, a few commuter/mainline and a couple of Dedicated highspeed routes for the people who like driving fast like me . SKA, DRA, HMA are in my top 10 routes in TSW anyways (maybe it’s due to me visiting those places the most when I go to Germany.) but at the same time LGV and SKW are in my top 3 routes with SEHS (specifically HS1) sneaking up. But Munich to Augsburg will forever be my #1 favorite route in TSW just because of the S Bahn services really wished they added all of them to make the timetable more busy.
Maybe thats also because IOW has some quite interesting scenery on its way, like the pier. I only own the old version, but I do enjoy it, even though as you say there is not a lot to do and it really is the definition of a one trick pony. So good scenery can substitute for tasks eventually. Not that SKW has interesting scenery though. As you bring up TVL, that is how I would define diverse scenery. And yes the interesting service types on that route also make it one of my favorites.
The main point of OP is completely valid - length is not everything. Personally, I love routes that are more like networks (DRA, SEHS, LIRR (if it worked properly), and CCL). CCL is one of the way shorter routes but offers a crazy load of varied paths. So yeah, length doesn't mean much. BUT... SKW is a really well-made route. The timetable is varied, LZB reacts to conditions, and the route has pretty good scenery overall. I enjoy it a lot more since somebody on the forums explained how you're actually supposed to drive with LZB/AFB (not hammer it 100% and let AFB sort it out). This is thanks to a hand-made timetable that allows for it and isn't generated by a dumb AI with broken physics which forces you to run like a madman on the majority of other routes. Still... I would love this connected with the MSB with the regional route to Gemünden, what a massive beast that would be.
Do you have a link to that LZB/AFB explanation, by chance? I have been going 100% throttle all the time and would love to learn more about the stuff you mentioned.
Don't have a link to that, but basically, it goes like this - with 100 %, you probably end up in every station minutes earlier. That's because AFB/LZB should only be a safety measure; you should stay below that AND drive effectively, so leaving the station get to like 240 or something like that, and then use the profile of the route to your advantage, don't worry to slow down to speeds of like 200, use downgrades to keep your speed/accelerate without throttle. This IRL greatly reduces wear and service costs. The route allows so high speed to be able to catch up on delays, but flooring it is rare. When going from Fulda to Würzburg, about 40 km from Würzburg I go into coasting and just apply throttle for one rather long grade (ca 4 km), so only 10 % of that section motors have to work. I would love for the gradient to be visible without pausing, but it is pretty fun using it to your advantage, sparing energy. Really shows why trains obliterate cars in efficiency (try coasting a car for 20 km).
When it first came out I thought it was boring too. It’s only saving grace was the ICE 1 which is a joy to drive and so characterful. Later on I came back and with bad weather, didn’t rely on AFB and music or something in the background and I found it a lot of fun. It’s quite fun with the 101 on the sleeper services seeing how smooth a journey you can do so you don’t wake anyone up. Definitely don’t let AFB drive the train. It’s unrealistic and boring. It brakes too hard. Turn it on sure but keep below the limit and give your passengers a smooth journey. I haven’t been able to bring myself to do a freight service yet. That is a long journey. I must say I do prefer the routes where you feel like you’re part of a network with different routes to take. The new SEHS and Dresden are example.
One thing about Kassel Wurzburg is that it's designed for Mixed traffic use Freight late nights IC & ICE trains day time which is what a German SFS was intended to do until the passenger-dedicated SFS Rhein-Main opened around December 2002. If you have a 155 it will lose speed on Kassel Wurzburg despite having 130% traction and Tap 30.
