Uk Train Sim Still In Business?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KodiakJac, Dec 20, 2022.

  1. KodiakJac

    KodiakJac Active Member

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    Does anyone know if UK Train Sim is still in business?

    I'm interested in their narrow gauge lines in Wales (which I just learned about last week), but their website says their security certificate expired 81 days ago. Sure hope they're still in business, as based on the YouTube video I stumbled upon, their work looks brilliant!



    I read that Matt Peddlesden is/was associated with UK Train Sim, so hoping he might see this post and let them know their security certificate has expired :)
     
  2. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is still going

    Matt knows about the certificate (has since July iirc)

    No it's unlikely they'll renew it.

    All that aside, this is the link you want anyway > https://sprailways.co.uk/
     
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  3. KodiakJac

    KodiakJac Active Member

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    Thanks for the link, Reef! :D
     
  4. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    I haven't been on the site for months due to a security risk message when trying to access....is the general opinion that it's no issue and OK to browse UKTrainsim?
     
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  5. decrepitts#7027

    decrepitts#7027 Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak with absolute authority, but can say that I finally decided to ignore the warning and visit UKTS. So far I've noticed nothing amiss. But take this with a grain of salt until others chime in to either confirm or condemn the rightness of me doing so.
     
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  6. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Nothing is wrong with going on the site, although hopefully the site will be upgraded soon - it is a massive resource for TS.
     
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  7. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    The site is safe. I've been in the habit of downloading everything "TS2013" and Railworks on there just in case the site does go. I have thought of doing a collection for the other apps as well, but not urgent as I doubt I'll play them. If anything, I'd add OpenRails.
     
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  8. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I visit UKTS each day after visiting this page and apart from the odd warning I have had no problem over the many years.
     
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  9. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Like Peter above I visit it regular as sometimes you find out news from
    Members not posted anywhere else. I to get the odd warning but just click it to access the site and it had any problems.
     
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  10. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Completeley down at the moment UKTS is.
     
  11. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    not for me it’s not
     
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  12. KTL_Rob Powell

    KTL_Rob Powell Well-Known Member

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    It was briefly but is back up and working now :)
     
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  13. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I just kicked it in the special area. Back up now, apologies for the downtime :)
     
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  14. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    BTW the missing certificate shouldn't cause any problems at all - the site has nothing secure on it, and obviously you're all using a unique password so it doesn't matter if it gets hacked anyway, beyond that if you pay for a sub it's all handled by a third party that DO have a certificate.

    I will see if i can get the cert sorted this weekend.

    But, i'd advise get what you want off the site, it is going down at some point permanently, little while yet, but it no longer has a future.

    Matt.
     
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  15. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    I had a look the other day following a search, and had the security warning which you can bypass on your browser. The site is accessible, it’s just as a result of the expired certificate.
     
  16. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Matt, so what will happen with the dozens of third party routes etc that expect installation of myriad UKTS assets?

    Unless all these assets are made available elsewhere, then all these routes will not work for new players downloading them.

    I’m hoping someone at UKTS has them all to pass on to some other site to be made available, maybe ATS?
     
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  17. Måns Johannesson

    Måns Johannesson Member

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    These are not available to new players anyway since it hasn't been possible to register a new user at UKTS for several years.
     
  18. KTL_Rob Powell

    KTL_Rob Powell Well-Known Member

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    Yes it has... Please don't spread misinformation.

    Furthermore the freeware packs are available on a mirror site that does not require a UKTS account

    Unfortunately though, unless moved elsewhere, the loose files may disappear forever
     
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  19. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    That is unfortunately a problem for the community to solve - a key part of the upload process to UKTS is that, unlike many other sites that share community files, I am not claiming any kind of rights or ownership to them - which means I just dont have permission from people to go sharing all their files to other distribution sites.

    There's no immediate rush in any case, a few months yet.

    Matt.
     
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  20. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    The Welsh narrow gauge lines have long since moved from UKTrainsm to their own site at https://sprailways.co.uk/
     
  21. Måns Johannesson

    Måns Johannesson Member

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    It isn´t misinformation. It is virtually impossible to get a response from UKTS if you try to register a new account. Just look around on this forums, there is a number of topics about that.
     
  22. KTL_Rob Powell

    KTL_Rob Powell Well-Known Member

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    I have to be very careful how to word this so that I don't get myself in trouble.

    There are instructions on the website to join a discord for account enquiries for not recieving passwords where the admin is able to deal with such requests.

    Just because you have not seen this or acted on this does not mean it is impossible to sign up.
     
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  23. Måns Johannesson

    Måns Johannesson Member

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    OK, I suppose I was stupid to use the 'I want to register' link or the 'FAQ' or the 'Help'. None of these pages mentions that you should use the discord link.
     
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  24. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a very bad idea. It is certainly old and clunky but has a huge amount of content that you can't get elsewhere. As far as I know there are no sites with quite the variety and quantity of content available to download - you may not be interested in keeping it going but there are loads of people in the community (not just TS') who are. At the very least you could pass ownership to someone else?
     
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  25. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Amazing people expect Matt to keep the air going out of his own pocket. Perhaps if the ones expecting him to do that contributes to the running of the page with a monthly subscription he wouldn’t feel the need to close it down and save his own personal money that he obviously contributed to help keep the site running
     
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  26. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Which is why ownership should be transferred to someone who is willing to spend the money.
     
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  27. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    so then your relying on someone else to foot the bill for your satisfaction intake it.

    If it is such a big issue why don’t you foot the bill and keep it running
     
  28. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I don't have the knowledge nor time to update and run a website, forum and file library. But yes, it is 'such a big issue' - 22,000 files' worth of a big issue. The most probable solution is for a group of interested users working together to keep it alive, potentially even updating it to modern standards. These people would need some experience with website coding, maintenance, and design, plus the ability to pool the money needed to actually keep it all running. I am no use for any of those.

    While the forums aren't a very important part of UKTS and could be simply preserved via the Wayback Machine, the file library is the absolute minimum to keep running as it is the most important part of UKTS. Depending on how the transfer happens either Matt and Peter will continue to own the site while the new group maintains it, or Atomic Systems and/or UKTS will transfer to the new owners. As for Atomic Systems, I'm not sure how it relates to UKTS now other than UKTS accounts being Atomic accounts - the register page even refers to defunct Atomic-hosted sites such as Dear Diary and Open Fiction, but since Atomic seems to be integral to UKTS it'll probably be part of the transfer. Plus it's a really cool name, I'd run something techy on that domain if I had any idea how to do those sorts of things.

    I would be interested in helping out if there was a role that worked for me. I know UI design well, for example, but the heavy work will be done by people far more intelligent than me. If I was involved I'd probably end up in customer support or another position near the bottom of the food chain.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2023
  29. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    perhaps it could be the start of a little
    Project for yourself to kick start and get a team together to take the lead. Be something you could be proud of doing.
     
  30. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, but if that happened I'd literally just be a manager. I could contribute very little to the actual completion of the project.
     
  31. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    you be a good manager then a manager manages his/her staff :D
     
  32. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    The Peddlesdens have not shown any signs that they will let someone else foot the bill.
     
  33. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    As mentioned, the critical things are the files. I would presume these are all manageably located in a particular files folder in the website, so can be FTPed back for passing on (if the site owner doesn’t have a folder of them all locally).

    The main point highlighted is the lack of long term viability of scores of third party routes requiring and depending on sometimes dozens of UKTS files, so it’s crucial they are preserved before the site is abandoned, or there’s going to be a lot of gaps in these routes and a lot of work by developers to plug in the gaps, should they be so inclined/have the time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2023
  34. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Except, of course, Matt has explicitly said that he won't do that.
     
  35. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    In the terms and conditions, what does it say about file ownership? It may be the case that uploaded files can be kept as long as it's the same UKTrainSim domain.
     
  36. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    I had a look and I can't find any T&Cs at all. Considering the slapdash way the site has been run - including the announcement of its closure - that is perhaps not surprising.
     
  37. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    If someone wants to take the £500 a month server bill off my hands i'll be quite happy. Zero people paying for the service now, so it can't be *that* important to anyone. If it paid its bills, i'd be happy to keep it running indefinitely. I've said since the day I started, that once people no longer used/needed the site i'd shut it down and while I agree there's need for the library - if it's not enough need to spend a couple of quid, it's not that much need at all.

    All the files are available via an unlimited FTP for premium subs and have been for a decade. Spend £3, download the lot, you can fix this yourself. I honestly thought that people had already been mirroring the site since the FTP feature went live *shrug*

    I am not against anything happening at all, but honestly, I have very little spare time anymore and haven't had for years - so i'm being totally realistic about this. If it needs me to do something, it's not going to happen.

    Matt.
     
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  38. Cuddy_Man

    Cuddy_Man Well-Known Member

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    I think there's a bad case of nostalgia gripping a few people. I've noticed that recently there is almost nothing in the download queue and sometimes nothing at all. That suggests almost nobody is using the site, which suggests it has little real value to people.

    In my view many of the files aren't worth saving. Some were never good, some were good but have aged badly, others were good but have been superseded. Those that are still good or useful will tend to find homes elsewhere.
     
  39. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Can you confirm that it is still possible to purchase a premium account?
    This is not the case, because the train sim community has a strong taboo against reuploading files without the permission of the creator.
     
  40. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Unless someone tells me otherwise you have always been able to get a premium account. Only one month at a time though.

    If its broke someone let me know :) I know new account signips is virtually impossible, the server gets hit so hard for attacks and such its blacklisted on most mail servers now and I just cannot keep up with the attackers anymore so all outbound emails are binned pretty much.

    Matt
     
  41. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Is account sharing allowed on the site? If it is I wouldn't mind letting people use my account for downloads.
    Maybe, but TS isn't the only game UKTS had files for - the site was set up primarily for MSTS. Even now UKTS files are dependencies for routes and even now there are things on UKTS you can't get anywhere else. Strangely the entire file library isn't that large - the whole thing would fit on a Google Drive account which would cost much less than £500 a day.

    A continuation of UKTS would probably not be like a normal TS file site. ATS has completely replaced it in that regard. If it was me I'd stop new uploads to UKTS and just keep it as an archive like how Vine lived on after being shut down. Then I'd make it a pay to access site, figuring out a cheaper way of storing the files as well to keep the site up and running. I'd need help with this obviously but if I'm the only one interested In wouldn't mind taking up the task at hand as long as there is interest and financial help. I'd chip in but I can't do it on my own.
     
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  42. Sproutmask

    Sproutmask Active Member

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    From a personal perspective I do feel a bit down about this, as UKTS was a great resource, but it is clearly totally unreasonable to expect Matt to keep it going given how much it costs in both time and money. One thing that occurs is that there are a lot of scenery assets and of course the UKTS Freeware Packs that are required for freeware routes that are hosted on other sites. I suspect the Freeware Packs are less problematic as my understanding is that all of the contributors effectively gave permission for the packs to be re-uploaded or hosted elsewhere. The difficulty will be that for many older items that are commonly used by freeware route builders (e.g. individual buildings or bridges), it may not be possible to track down the creator to obtain permission to reupload or rehost. The sheer number of items is also prohibitive.
    It's not just the TS community. Across gaming, it is generally accepted that if someone creates a piece of content, then they should have the right to decide what happens to it, and I don't really see an argument against this. It's no different in, say, Skyrim - modders come and go, and sometimes their content goes with them. However inconvenient it might be for me as a player, I don't see an argument that says it's morally OK for me to take someone else's creation and re-share or alter it without their permission. So, just like other moddable games, preservation will require either creators to take the initiative and move their content elsewhere, or for others to obtain permission to do so. This isn't impossible - ATS hosts TS Tools with permission following Mike Simpson's retirement, for example. But there isn't really a way around it. Over the years, both freeware and payware items have come and gone, and I've been a gamer long enough to know that sometimes you just have to take it on the chin.
    Personally I'm grateful for the contribution that UKTS made, it no doubt contributed hugely to TSC's ongoing longevity (and perhaps we should be a little more grateful to Matt and co. for keeping it going as long as they have), but it's clearly unsustainable in its current form, and it's really up to creators what happens to the content.
     
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  43. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Like a lot of other people I used to be a premium subscriber and I was happy doing that.
    I did not have to think about renewing every month.
    But it was changed to a monthly subscription and people found themselves having to renew and if they did not download anything what was the point?
     
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  44. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    In quite a lot of situations like this one though, the approach tends to be "upload first, remove if creator requests". See stuff like Flashpoint.
     
  45. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    I realise that the rule of thumb is that files not be reuploaded elsewhere from the original site, but I’d like to think that creators would rather see their work still available from an alternative site rather than not at all, if the original goes under. The cardinal sin is selling what was made free, and no one is suggesting that.
     
  46. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    If the creators wish for their work to be still available they could upload to a different site when UKTS finishes
     
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  47. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I made the change because I was unsure what the future of the site held - and taking a payment for a 6 or 12 month sub when I wasn't sure I could have the site running enough to support that did not sit right with me. I realise dropping to monthly makes things awkward, but at least i'm not getting into a situation where i'm owing people as part of closing down a non profitable site too, it's bad enough as it is :)

    Matt.
     
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  48. decrepitts#7027

    decrepitts#7027 Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought here, while confessing that thinking is not my forte. Why not use the remaining months prior to termination to put out feelers as to how many people might be willing to support the site via something like Patreon, it being a simple system for patreons to deal with? (I know nothing of Patreon from the receiver's end.) Monthly fees are a thing there, but those are paid automatically until a patreon decides to jump ship. If necessary, a multi-tiered subscription system can be implemented where those that can only fork out a buck or two a month might get slower but still satisfactory DL speeds, etc. The current snail-pace DL for non patreons would of course remain in place. A monkeye-wrench is getting feelers out to all users of UKTS Again, this is all nothing more than typing out an idea that might be totally idiotic, and might go over like a lead balloon.
     
  49. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Why is everyone focused on this being a purely financial problem and solution, Matt clearly stated that he no longer has the time to commit to UKTS, so Patreons, free servers, donations and whatever else aren't going to fix this, it was suggested by Matts father a good few weeks ago that a consortium could possibly take over the running and financial burden but afaik no one stepped forward and made any real moves into getting one organised, this impending closure is not out of the blue.
     
  50. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I haven't heard of this conversation between the Peddlesdens - I don't know who they asked but if it was just a general community thing they clearly didn't advertise this idea enough.
     
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