Rivets’ New Scottish Route

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by londonmidland, Dec 22, 2022.

  1. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    Without physically seeing the train making that noise, we don't know what's going on.

    I've not noticed any of these issues with IoW and the 484, so we'll have to wait and see.
     
  2. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, up to ap to join.
     
  3. glenn.doig

    glenn.doig Member

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    The IOW 484 and the SBB 523 carry on looping the traction motor sounds when coasting along, it's especially noticeable at low speeds.
     
  4. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    I completely understand your point, and I totally respect that. While I agree that TSW does need content that balances out gameplay value vs it being a train sim (but still a video game), hence actually why I'd be happier with slightly unrealistic timetables for busier routes as a comparison.

    But, returning to rolling stock, modern UK content, especially commuter is very popular as a lot of players can actually relate to this rather than stuff from half a century or more ago. Obviously, that means you'll have more commuter-style trains with smaller windows.

    As such, it's absolutely vital TSW cannot go down a path which it creates new rolling stock/routes purely on the basis of 'does the cab have a decent view of the scenery?'. Obviously, as you say, it's a video game, which is fair enough, but on that basis we'd never of had some of the most popular routes in TSW to begin with, such as London Commuter, East Coastway or SEHS, simply because most of the trains on such routes have small windows and, thus, you can't see much of the scenery.

    There's always going to be those who like and dislike different content - while I'd like every route to be modern, that ain't going to happen - and it certainly wouldn't be fair if no older era-routes/rolling stock was created for those who like it. But then again, if the Edinburgh-Glasgow route was instead in the 1970s, what's the point of good scenery if I can't recognise it because it's not in the present day?
     
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  5. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    As much as it would be nice to see the 312s and the Anglia/NXEA/ONE of my youth.
    When people talk about the warships and the earlier trains on the BR era, I have zero interest, because they are long before my time.

    It's one of the reasons I don't like the TVL or NTP, they are both routes I don't know and with trains I couldn't really care for.

    I know there's that small hardline community of BR Blue fans, and there's the other larger community of here and now's and they have to keep those happy that'll buy more products.
     
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  6. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that is fair. If we were in a pub having this conversation I would happily bet £50 and a packet of pork scratchings that a BR blue route would sell just us well as the modern stuff. I can assure you there are plenty more fans of BR blue out there than you think.
     
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  7. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    New Video from Rivet:-
     
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Even when unpowered a traction motor is going to give off gear and bearing noise so long as its axle is moving, because it never disengages.
     
  9. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think it’s reasonable to describe those who like trains from an earlier era as ‘hardline’ - they are no more hardline than those who like modern trains, and in some ways less so.

    In my experience most of those who are asking for a break from modern multiple units are actually pretty flexible on what they’d like instead - a very wide window of several decades when trains had locomotives (of a vast number of types) on the front. They can be green, blue, sector liveries, post-privatisation liveries, or just about anything else. That’s a far wider range to go at than just saying it’s got to be a modern multiple unit.

    I can’t help feeling there’s a common ground here somewhere though. There was a lengthy transition era when loco-hauled trains could be seen alongside multiple units. Wouldn’t a route in that era, which utilised the significant stable of diesels created in the early TSW years, alongside more modern multiple units, give enjoyment to all?
     
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  10. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Waverley looks absolutely beautiful. Some of those shots are just like the actual experience of walking inside the station. Gave me an odd sense of deja vu.
     
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  11. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I can assure you TSW is not just a home entertainment, certainly not when it advertises ‘true to life’ performance and as a ‘simulator’. It should have the upmost attention to the very finer details that a simulator should have. It *CAN* be done because we have seen small glimpses in certain models that have been released, but it lacks consistency across the whole stock. The class 47 lacks proper running sounds and brake rub, so does the class 52, the class 166 lacks brake hisses when releasing etc, the HST lacks traction motor sounds, the Class 150 - where do I even start !!!
     
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  12. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I think this looks really good. Rivet is clearly acting on community feedback by leaving so much of the station to explore, beating out DTG. Rivet is increasingly fulfilling the role I hope 3rd parties would play, by adding new area's, features and techniques, and deciding somewhat differently on what community feedback is taken on board and how. It's not that long ago that the idea of a 3rd party creating the best station in game, and one as complex as waverly at that, seemed unfathomable. Despite past issues I reall see Rivet learning quickly now. Waverly looks stunning and very well might be the new benchmark for stations.
     
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  13. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    Given the amount or comments I see saying, "had this been set in the x-y-z era it would be a definite buy from me, gives me the idea that this is the case. There may be fans yes, but the average simulator player, who doesn't really have an interest in trains, wouldn't be so keen to buy a historically set diesel route.

    I base this on my own and friends opinions. I'm not a big fan of trains, I play sim games, regardless of the topic, if a BR Blue route was up next, I'd give the game a miss and play other things until the next UK route.

    I'm more refering to those comments I see whenever a route is announced saying "should have been set in this time with that loco" the last few routes to be released have all had this attached.

    again, depends entirely on the location, era etc.
    Things like the 101 are atrocious to drive and I would pass hard on any future routes that include it.
     
  14. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Is this why when, say, 319s get dragged, you can still hear the motors, despite it being unpowered?
     
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  15. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    The interior looks absolutely stunning, what can I say!
     
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  16. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Horses for courses. There are quite a few players, including yours truly, who think that the Class 101 is fun to drive and would like more 1st and 2nd generation DMU's.
     
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  17. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    I agree its my own opinion, but I don't find it fun.
    2nd Gen (IIUC sprinters etc) I enjoy want to see more of, but I'm happy to never see the 101s again
     
  18. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Most of the time I see these comments it is people saying they want it in the steam or BR era and very rarely saying modern. The fact of the matter is there are 7 modern British routes in game set in the past ten years. This means that the 60 years between 1950 and 2010 are represented by 4 routes. I would be happy if we got a true BR route in the 70s with all the real legends of our railway then they can carry on with more modern routes. Also just to be clear I am not anti-modern (unless there is an Electrostar) but I feel like the balance isn't right between modern and old.
    I would be more than happy not to see an electrostar again but I am not wishing I won't as I know there is someone, somewhere who would like to see them again. I would however ask what they had been drinking!
     
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  19. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Good news for you! In the roadmap stream, Matt said they aren’t planning to do any Electrostar routes in the southern UK anytime soon. I think players and developers will be happy about that ;)
     
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  20. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    I suppose that’s my point, though. It would be perfectly possible to have a route set in an era in which both the 101 and the 150 operated, even working on the same schedules during the transition. So you wouldn’t have to drive the 101. Those who like to drive it can do so, and those who prefer the 150 can drive that. We’re all happy because we can all enjoy the route as we want to, and the developer’s happy because we all buy it!
     
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  21. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I must have missed that part of the stream then: I would have raised a glass!
     
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  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It works both ways, a lot of people have moaned on the rare occasions we have had pre-privatisation routes that they were not "modern". Often when older routes are suggested a lot of people suggest they would prefer modern versions. Are these people no less "hard line"?
     
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  23. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    Given the thousands that flock to heritage lines to ride behind 1st and 2nd gen diesels, I would have a thought it was about time DTG gave us another BR blue route. Thinking back we were so lucky to have NTP with a class 45, a class 47 (okay a slightly modified WSR repaint), and the class 101 DMU (and then the 40 and 08 HFP). Frankly surprised they haven't given us more BR blue DLC, it would be low-hanging fruit and sure to fly off the virual shelves!
     
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  24. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I have beaten this drum for a long time. People keep saying it doesn't sell etc. I have no issue with modern day stuff but do prefer older times. I infact model the early 90s as it means I can run Sprinters alongside loco hauled coaches and have older locos on freight. The fact that two UK routes have come out with BR built traction (314 and 323) but yet set in recent times means that the modern livery is what is desired and many do not care that the stations are devoid of trains. This lack of rolling stock also means many runs are greens all the way giving a lack of variation. Glasgow Central is the busiest station in Scotland with Waverley up there also and both could have been a lot busier if set in BR days using layers.

    Class 47 with 60 years of service has two liveries in TSW. 37 the same. Class 31 one, class 20 one. 33 one. All locos that ran up until the millennium but instead it's the 66 as the token uk Loco which is a type not popular within many enthusiasts circles.

    There's a balance somewhere between folk wanting modern trains and those wanting older stuff. The North Wales Coast in the late 90s would be one such transitional route, Sprinters, 37s, HSTs 101s etc.

    There doesn't seem to be a strategy it doesn't feel so anyhow and more like a map of the UK is found and a pin placed in it with the criteria current day or very recent and add 66 for garnish.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
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  25. glenn.doig

    glenn.doig Member

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    Quite, but the actual sound of the AC traction motors does not carry on whilst coasting with no power being applied. Hence why everything DTG has released correctly has it cutting out (375/395/465 etc).
     
  26. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I do find it interesting how rivet seem to manage to bring so many new features. Working train system, pianos, the station looks busier and without so many low res shop textures. I like how river are bringing in bigger areas to explore. They are leaps and bounds ahead to where they was.

    How can river get train announcement's yet they've been frequented so long from DTG.

    interesting unfolding
     
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  27. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Thats unbelievable for me. That in the design choice "walking into the second unit" got priority over drivers visibility.

    The class 745/755 had also a connected variant in the design drafts, glad they choose a solid cab version.
    Not sure maybe the operators have restrictions that intercity / express trains must be reachable through the entire train.
     
  28. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    I suppose there’s a question here of “Driver Simulator v World Simulator”.

    For some people, like me, all we’re really interested in is the Driver Simulator aspect - anything you can’t see from the Driver’s seat is wasted on me - I’ll never look at it.

    Others enjoy exploring the whole world around the train, and not even restricted to railway architecture itself, but going off the station and looking for details in the surrounding town.

    The developers have to take a decision on how much time they commit to making things which some players appreciate but other players will never see, and how much time they commit to the driving experience.

    There seems to be a difference in approach here from Rivet as compared to DTG. While DTG put most of their development time into the train itself and what you can see from the cab, Rivet focus more on details outside of the cab.

    It’s noticeable that the trailer videos which Rivet have released so far for this route are all unrelated to the driving of the train. Even the one they did about the Class 385 was entirely about the train exterior and passenger saloon. When - right at the end the of the video - they finally reached the Driver’s cab and I thought ‘now for the interesting bit’ the video promptly ended with only a momentary glance at the desk!

    I suspect the question on the sort of features you mention is not so much capability, as priority. Both approaches are perfectly legitimate, and as more developers join TSW, players will no doubt get to know where each developer’s focus tends to lie, and therefore which routes to spend their money on, based on their own preferences.
     
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  29. amyinorbit

    amyinorbit Active Member

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    Re: traction motor noises when coasting, I agree that previous rivet routes have been pretty lacking when it comes to this. This video of the 385 gives me hope though, you cannot hear any transformer whine at all, just good old rolling noise

     
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  30. amyinorbit

    amyinorbit Active Member

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    not sure that’s a “good” decision, but on the 385 IIRC the gangway was added because of the catering requirement ScotRail (at that time Abellio) gave to hitachi, meaning the catering trolley needs to be able to go from one end of the train to the another.

    that being said, I agree that it results in darned small windows!
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
  31. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    They could say anything and we'd believe it tbh..
     
  32. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Well-Known Member

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    Cheer up Alex
     
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  33. Class156

    Class156 Well-Known Member

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    The difference seems to be that Rivet are evolving, improving, and listening to the community in a way that I don't think DTG are quite there with yet.
     
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  34. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Lol, yeah I remember that with the class 150. They made changes but just didn't physically rewire it as advised by other users and community members, especially with the amount of material that was provided by these members.
     
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  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I agree, their revamped IOW line is very good. I think WCL looks very nice, even if it isn't totally accurate. They have been innovative so far in TSW, also they do have a good reputation in TSC.

    I do think this route will turn out to be very good.
     
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  36. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    3rd parties usually have more time and take their time making things as good as possible and explore and try new things. Not that it always turns out great. Rivet usually have much better modeling of the trains, stations, and most recently the environment and bringing in brand new features with each dlc. Physics and sounds haven't been great but has improved recently. Skyhook seems to only be good with the scenery, but everything else is poor. Only tsg produces high quality addons with really good physics and realistic sound which other 3rd parties do not compare to his team.
     
  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    IOW is still a bit flawed though, with incorrect signal sequences. 484 starts off with a jerk and to my ears sounds like a DMU in full throttle and at speed.

    If Rivet aren't showing the 385 in action and without a musical background I would still be very sceptical.
     
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  38. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry there is working lifts though....
     
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  39. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    385 Rivet Video

     
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  40. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well then, maybe if Rivet had made Harlem we would have gotten Yankee Stadium! :D
     
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  41. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    LOL you are right, and we could have also see grand central terminal concourse :D:D:D:cool:
     
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  42. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Wow, just wow.

    Just watched Rivet’s new video and they have a bundle of new features for both the route and train.

    These include:
    - Neutral sections for electric trains
    - A detailed and functional TMS
    - Working train announcements
    - Automatic blinds based on sun position
    - Detailed and explorable stations

    I hope DTG is taking note as this is what players will now expect as the new standard. Failing to deliver will make you guys look fairly incompetent in comparison.

    DF445CD2-6CF7-44F4-B44E-9FDA6FCEE1C7.jpeg DD921CDF-E33F-498B-AC55-6CACD55A2099.jpeg 8F827719-33BB-4CBA-B91F-A0EAEE8FFBE3.jpeg
     
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  43. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. They're setting a new standard that I hope is followed in the future.

    I also really like Rivet showing off more of the route in these videos. Two weeks would have been quite a long wait with just the announcement article until the preview, so they're doing a great job at maintaining interest.
     
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  44. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I think that DTG Should also do something like this, get the marketing team on this as well, cause it really build up the HYPE :o:D:cool:;)
     
  45. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    This should be the NEW Standard For ALL DTG Upcoming Route Moving Forward especially 2023 I mean COME ON!!!
     
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  46. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    Oh for the love of...

    upload_2023-1-17_19-45-40.png

    It looks like timetable stops are still auto-calculated instead of being real timings. Jasper_Rivet could this please be looked at as a matter of priority?

    Frustrating that this is still happening when the DTG timetabling team cracked this long ago.

    Apart from this, it looks really good - but it's a real shame to see the timetable not up to the same standard as other routes, especially when it's very clear how much work has gone into the rest of this DLC.
     
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  47. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    My goodness, that is the narrowest, smallest aperture I've ever seen in a cab.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2023
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  48. chinchillaxs#8354

    chinchillaxs#8354 Member

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    It really is a pitiful view. The route and the train look like they're modeled perfectly and very well made, but that tiny window...
     
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  49. glenn.doig

    glenn.doig Member

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    This is a real disappointment, it immediately takes away from the realism for me. But with everything else being so good in this DLC it’s not a complete deal breaker.
     
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  50. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Well-Known Member

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    This is quite disappointing but hopefully a more realistic timetable can be implemented in time for release, wishful thinking.
     
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