PC Will We Ever Get The Promised Fixes?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by grumypop51, Jan 12, 2023.

  1. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    Rhetorical question! Loyal TSW2 players have been forgotten and/or, ignored by DTG and I suspect things will remain that way. There are no fixes for what they broke in our game, despite them being promised to us way back in October 2022. DTG core promises.....not to be believed. Disappointing, but true.
     
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  2. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    It's still waiting for an appropriate release build
     
  3. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    And will be waiting for some time to come.
     
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  4. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Matt goes into more detail in the roadmap stream
     
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  5. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    And how long ago was that stream? Then ask yourself how many other fixes and patches has there been for TSW3? Then as k, how many new DLC have we seen since the release of TSW3? I no longer believe anything DTG tell me about fixing our broken game. Hence the rhetorical part of the original post. Even though, I keep looking at the announcements in the wild hope I may see something. Hope springs eternal ...........
     
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  7. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    The stream was last night… I suggest you watch it, or at least part of it
     
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  8. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    What did Matt actually say, for those of us who do not wish to listen to a long stream?
     
  9. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Matt didn't have an update cuz the people he would ask to get the answer to that are still on Christmas break for a few more weeks. He said something along the lines of how one of the challenges is the content pipeline of release on consoles and to some extent steam is very single threaded so can only do one thing at a time and how it takes a few weeks for each to cycle. Due to how often they release content and patches compared to other games, microsoft steam and sony are kept extremely busy to release the content, slowing down stuff from being released. Matt said he will have a proper answer hopefully in the next roadmap and that the preservation updates will most likely not be released by then.
     
  10. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Somehow I suspect there will always be something in front of the TSW2 updates in the queue...
     
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  11. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    matt seems to say quite a lot on the streams but in terms of delivery his words do not go far. IMO as soon as TSW3 was announced that is DTG turning it's back on TSW2 and hope it disappears quietly. DTG probably think if they fix TSW2 they will not buy TSW3 despite all the fake promises, I only have TSW2 btw.

    But there are still some consumers out there that will not even think of TSW3 untill TSW2 is fixed as promised so they won't buy it anyway, I won't for sure and I am missing a few routes that I would buy but what incentive do I have?
     
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  12. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Tsw3 , their current and cash generating project I suspect with some logic.
     
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  13. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    My goodness it's January 13th!! A few more weeks!! How long does Christmas last in the UK?? :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2023
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  14. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    He didn't exactly say that but he said they are still off and that it would be a few more weeks until he gets an answer lol so I was just assuming how long it would be
     
  15. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    The implication is to ask again in about 3 weeks because they ain't coming out between now and the next roadmap.
     
  16. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    So, I watched the stream and it didn't give me any confidence that our game will be fixed any time in the near future. One more promise to do something further down the road. I've not much faith in their promises, despite the sincere(?) talk from them in this stream, I've heard it all before.
     
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  17. Fitz

    Fitz Well-Known Member

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    Right now, TSW2 is in a better and more playable shape than TSW3 by some margin.

    Everyone who jumped to TSW3, myself included about the promises from TSW2 were taken for a ride imo.

    There is zero play testing or accountability across the board. I have had enough of the TSW3 bugs and glitches for the time being.

    As ot is a Ross PS5 and XSX versions I know what can and will hard crash the game anytime I want. I have to tip toe around it to get the bits I can out of it.

    The game is in a very, very sad state right now.
     
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  18. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    I initially played a good bit of TSW3, back in November***. A lot of SEHS and SKW, as I didn't fancy the US freight route. Then I acquired a few more TSW2 routes, and started running into problems. It seems to me that most issues with TSW3 are related to the backwards compatibility with TSW2 routes. Lots of issues seem to happen for these routes: permanent red signals, crashes, achievements not popping, and so on, but not a lot of issues with the TSW3 routes. Except maybe the Steam one.
    Anyway, I don't own any of the new stuff, like Birmingham or Bremen. Those seem to have a bunch of issues as well, which seems to be typical for any new DLC released.

    NOTE*** I have since played a ton of TSW2, and have been quite happy with that. Apart from the BR143 achievement still broken after more than a year, I've been able to play without much trouble through the content, and enjoyed it a lot. Sadly, I am now back to TSW3, and it crashes to desktop every time I try to spawn on foot in IOW2022. Another crash happened today at the end of a relatively long MAG scenario, while I was "waiting for <time>" before the mission was over.
     
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  19. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    Very little QA these days, in my opinion. "Get it out there, make some money, we'll fix things (maybe), if the punters find them," seems to be the go.
    I don't own TSW3, but like you, I play a ton of TSW2, with the exception of Peninsula Corridor and SPG, which are both buggy these days. I also tend to leave anything on NTP which is loco hauled, because of clanking buffers and jolting consists due to the buffering issues. Everything else is mostly okay though and playable.
     
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  20. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. No profits in fixing things people don't have to pay for!
     
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  21. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    I've completed almost everything on SPG in TSW2. I've only stopped because I got bored of it, but I'm sure I'll go back one day and complete all the timetable services. No bugs encountered. I've had a bunch of derailments in one scenario, but it turned out to be my fault.
     
  22. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    Which scenario, if you don't mind me asking?
     
  23. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    Powering America, part 2
    The one where you're taking a coal train down the mountain to Cumberland, driving a tandem of AC4400 locos, with a small banking loco (not sure if GP38 or SD40-2). Anyway, you can re-read this thread, where I added two messages at the end.

    My solution was to turn off the banking loco completely, so it acted as dead weight, not as a loco. In real life, they need the banking loco to brake and keep the train from compressing, but in the game something wasn't working, causing derailments. Without a banking loco, you must keep the train compressed and use the front tandem brakes, and it worked just fine, first attempt. In fact, there's one timetable service where you do exactly the same, minus the banking loco: a tandem of AC4400s taking a coal train to Cumberland, no derailment, no problem.
     
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  24. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow, I had given up on this scenario as I detailed 4 times even going at a crawling speed in the area it happened. I will try your work around and see how things go. Thanks!
     
  25. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    yardem backwards compatibility? TSW2 & TSW3 use the same engine as stated by DTG which is why TSW2 is supposed to run on TSW3. TSW3 just has updated weather and could have easily been added to TSW2. I think TSW2 is buggy but if you are saying TSW3 is even more full of bugs then I'm glad I didn't buy it.
     
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  26. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Tsw3 has much more than extreme weather and dynamic weather. You also have new lighting, eye adaptation and volumetric clouds. Tsw2 routes in tsw3 already have dynamic weather by default. Don't think tsw2 has that yet which I've uninstalled after I installed tsw3.
     
  27. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong but DTG said at the time of release the main difference between TSW3 is the dynamic weather. Everything in TSW3 would work on TSW2, TSW2 just needed it bugs fixed first but instead we got the choice to pay for TSW3, how lucky is that?
     
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  28. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, and the number of complaints I've seen about the lighting really fill me with enthusiasm.....not! As to some of the other 'junk' of the Big New Thing, TSW3....let's look at the snow flurries shall we? How many of us do you believe would be so enamoured by snow flurries, we would be driving our trains from outside the cab, looking at the pretty snow flurries instead of watching our speed, looking for signals, keeping to timetables et cetera? The same applies to the supposed arcing on the overhead wires, which I've also seen complaints saying it doesn't work as intended. There has also been multiple complaints about the dynamic weather, so I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.
     
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  29. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious if the promised TSW2 fixes will just be the fixes and not the additional layers introduced on Bakerloo and London Commuter plus the additional made to the West Cornwall route. I wouldn't be surprised if the extra goodies were paywalled behind TSW3.
     
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  30. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I think TSW2 is just as dead as TSW2020.

    Not even defending DTG, but not quite sure why people thought it would be any different than when TSW2020 was dropped for TSW2.

    It's clear at this point that a new version will come out every 2-3 years, and prior versions will receive very minimal support, if any.

    I can totally understand not liking that business model, but it doesn't seem likely to change.
     
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  31. aeronautic237

    aeronautic237 Well-Known Member

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    I think the reason is that people like myself who only joined in TSW2 never experienced this before, since we never had TSW2020. This means we didn't expect a third edition. Likewise, those who joined in TSW3 will probably have to go through the same thing if TSW4 comes out.
     
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  32. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Funny thing is, they keep taking down the old versions (TSW2020, TSW2) of the game from Steam, proving that it's simply the evolution of the same game, not a new game. Yet we are forced to pay for it again in every few years. It's ridiculous.

    I hated Trainz for releasing the same game every few years or so with minimal changes, but at least Trainz kept the old version in the stores. Of course, it's not like anyone would want to buy the old versions, but still at least it made more sense.

    The way it is now, we are forced to getting paid upgrades every few years. Why? If money is an issue, simply raise DLC prices. But don't force us to get releases and routes we don't need, because I sure don't need 3+ version of the same game in my Steam library.
     
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  33. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    That's a very fair point and I do think DTG should be more transparent about it.

    The fact that it's not an annual update probably makes it more confusing than it needs to be, not to mention some confusing branding (TSW2020 kind of implied an annual update, and then the went to TSW2- tbf, that might have been the plan pre-COVID)
     
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  34. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    TSW2020 to TSW2 had a clear and laid out reason for the new paid version. They had upgraded the game engine and did all the work to port over older content to the new platform. TSW2 to TSW3? No such big underlying reason for the paywall. They could easily have kept the same core and just introduced a route pack or whatever showcasing the new lighting, effects, dynamic weather, FPS stuttering and micro pauses. At that point you could continue getting the older route improvements while ignoring the stuff you don't want. As it is now, well, they've just made a mess of things and have divided their community. Business 101 fail.
     
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  35. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, but what exactly is this paywall you speak of?
    The price of TSW3 is zero: you only pay for the route(s) you get with it.
    Right now, in the Steam store (no sales), for the same price you can either buy the UK Starter Pack (TSW3 + SEHS Extended), or the SEHS Extended DLC. And they have the same price as the routes released after, Birmingham and Bremen.

    And the Standard and Deluxe packs offer great reduction on price for the routes you get.
     
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  36. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    As things stand now, TSW2 route fixes are paywalled behind TSW3 with no stated release date for TSW2. Also, route enhancements beyond the current backlogged fixes mentioned for TSW2 will be paywalled behind TSW3. Also, the price of TSW3 is certainly not zero. If you got it for free, you really shouldn't be downloading from such sites :D
     
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  37. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 route fixes? Care to share what you've been smoking?
    There are no TSW2 route fixes in TSW3. In fact, there are issues with TSW2 routes that were not present in TSW2, but are not working properly in TSW3. Do you not read the Technical Reports forum?

    I'm just saying you can have it free if you buy Cajon Pass, or SEHS Extended, or Kassel Wurzburg.

    either-or.png
     
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  38. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    "Free if you buy".. and yet you ask what I'm smoking?
     
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  39. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    You never heard of "Buy one get one free"?
    When did your spaceship crash land on Earth?
     
  40. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - flaming]
     
  41. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, just making a logical point.
     
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  42. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Then what would you call the Preservation Crew updates that has been promised like a year ago for TSW2 but since only released for TSW3?

    When they promised those fixes will be coming out soon, TSW3 wasn't even announced yet.
     
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  43. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as "free lunch".

    DTG´s ill-conceived patches have broken more than they cure. In TSW2. Long before Number 3 was leaked. "Up"date 1.86 for PS4 being the most classic here. This was supposed to fix derailing issues on SoS. Instead it messed up the whole sim introducing random derailing and buffer/coupler issues on ALL routes. Even if you don´t have SoS (like me). And that is even recognized by DTG. HERE
    So, you just walk into my house, break up things and then leave pretending nothing happened? I don´t think so.
    Now this seems to be fixed on TSW3 with an observation that "the solution might be backported to TSW2 if possible". Backported? BACKPORTED??? You get TSW3 and TSW2 will remain broken? Now, that´s what I call a "payment wall".
    Apart from the blatant lies about the "summer-hiatus-for-fixing-things" while they really prepared TSW3 instead. That one didn´t go down well with me. That´s not how you treat a good paying customer. And there will be no penny from me anymore until they stick to their word.

    I wished I´d had visited these forums in order to learn about the TSW2020 to TSW2 transition. That would´ve prevented me from doing stupid things like spending around € 600,00 for software that soon would be broken by DTG´s "patches".
     
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  44. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    And then.......after trashing the house and breaking stuff, they have the temerity (as do some of the contributors to these forums), to suggest that, "If you buy this new house, everything will be okay!" Would be funny if it were not what they expected us to do.
     
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  45. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    Well, that may be a work around, but it's not very realistic is it? After all this is a sim and should simulate the real life things, and this doesn't cut it.
     
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  46. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    In real life, the banking loco would have a real driver, who would control that locomotive's brakes, independently from you, while staying in touch with you via radio. Not sure how you're going to simulate that.
    For me, the main objective was the completion of the scenario with a gold medal, which I got.
    Looks like your main objective is to keep complaining that the game is broken. Good luck with that!
     
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  47. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    My main objective is to be able to drive locos/trains as the game developers intended, following all the instructions etc.. from videos of others who have gone before me. That includes how to videos by Matt Peddlesden.
     
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  48. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think people need to realise that when a new product releases it supersedes the old. Any promised support is at best "good will" and not commercial sense.

    How do we know this..... we use an equation called "let's look at how much new stuff is released for the current build / the amount of old stuff being updated.

    By completing this we can see that the new stuff is where the money is.

    please note , a variable can impact this equation, that variable being people believing old stuff is infinitely supported because it looks similar to the new.
     
  49. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Following this logic the game will never really grow, because all the buggy old content can scare away entirely new users.

    I mean if someone is entirely new to Train Sim World, to them every route and loco will be "new". If 3/4 of the content is left full of issues, they will be scared away from the product altogether pretty quickly.

    And even though I have been playing TSW from the start, I still have plenty of routes/trains I would like to buy, but not in their current, unfinished, buggy state. And I am pretty sure I am not the only one. There is great sales potential in fixing old content, because many people hold out on buying them due to bad reviews.
     
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  50. nhilsubsolenovum

    nhilsubsolenovum Active Member

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    All this could be solved, if they opened it up to the community for real modding with an editor.

    There wouldn't be half as much grief given , because we know the community would mould the game to how it really should be.

    This happened with Trainsim Classic and it's the reason why people still play that

    Trainsim World will continue to disappoint despite it's huge potential, whilst ever it's locked down.
     
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