Is Simrail What Tsw Should Have Been?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Jamy, Dec 12, 2022.

  1. traindori

    traindori Well-Known Member

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    Well, at the moment everyone is trying to talk about Simrail in a nice and successful way.

    But let's just take the status quo now (about 10 minutes ago):

    TSW3 519 player
    TSW2 182 player
    = 701 player (only on Steam!)
    + Console players
    = estimated 1000 players for sure (or more)

    Simrail 788 players

    I don't see a blatant descent from TSW there.
     
  2. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I am comparing the amount of people playing TSW3 vs TSW2. As I posted the maximum number of people online is highest for TSW2 and LOWER for TSW3 by some margin (about half as many). That is the descent I am talking about. It is possible to infer the number of people who have the game from the number of concurrent users, from the maximum no of people playing in the last 24 hours plus review numbers etc.

    See here the descent, the red line is 200 reviews per month and the yellow line is 100 reviews per month. See here for an article about using review numbers to measure sales https://vginsights.com/insights/article/how-to-estimate-steam-video-game-sales and note I am not talking about console users or other pc platforms I am talking about comparing steam with steam, pc with pc over time. I am showing a decline in terms of maximum no of concurrent users and a significant decline in users leaving reviews which suggests TSW2 was the peak of this franchise. Even the day 1 figures match this pattern. TSW2 the best, followed by TSW2020 followed by TSW3. Not the direction you want to be heading in. Untitled.png
     
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  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Back to SimRail... read on the Steam forum earlier, the griefing and ganking is still taking place on some of the servers under the retail release of the game. So the devs have not taken on board what happened during the play test or put any measures in place to stop the practice. Exactly why MP in a train game striving to be realistic just doesn't work and why a solid SP game, bolstered by a robust save mechanism is essential.

    It's beginning to look more and more like a great idea that turned into a trainwreck.

    As for me, well Peninsula Corridor in TSW3 will do nicely for this evening's train driving entertainment.
     
  4. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    It happened exactly as predicted. The perfect example of why TSW needs no multiplayer.
     
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  5. Jesitim

    Jesitim Member

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    I don't know where you are getting your information from but this is simply not true...
    In my 90 hours of playtest and now 20 hours of EA, I never came across someone who was straight trolling. Not denying they don't exist, but most of the times signals were red was because people actually need to learn how to operate the dispatching posts. Which is just a logical step, many of the more experienced people help the less experienced people.
    Devs not taking action? During the playtests many steps were taking against trolling and griefing, like the fact you can't send trains the wrong way anymore or shunting signals being disabled for now. There were tests with AFK timers and devs do intervene if they are available by kicking people.

    Many people who had the same concerns like you, me included have been proven wrong. The concept can work and with the right feedback will keep on working. At least they provided unlike a certain other game.

    Altho comparing TSW and SimRail to each other is just a bad thing to do, they are different games. Simrail goes more to the hardcore side while TSW goes more to the arcade side.

    I like Simrail more as it just gives me the feeling of driving a real train more, something I do in the real world as well. Does the game need some fixing? Yes, not denying that but so far the devs have proven to be behind their project.
    I do agree tho with you that a save game option would be preferable and as you have seen yourself now, it's not that they disagree. It is just not their priority atm. But this will not stop me from having fun in mp, both dispatching and driving.

    It's good that there is some more competition now, we'll see what the future brings us. But I will definately think twice now before I buy a dlc for 35 euro now with only 1/4th of the content I got for 30 euro ;)
     
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  6. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I think this could be averted if a bit of effort was put into systems behind the MP - the very first being some minimum SP playtime (maybe even completed scenarios, so you don't just have the PC on), so you don't just hop in to ruin it, then some point system, perhaps similar to that of GTAV (job points/bad sport points), if that one actually worked. You can do it, but it takes extra effort.
     
  7. reallychummy

    reallychummy Member

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    I've spent some time with SimRail, and having once been on a train between Gdynia and Sopot (10kms?) I can vouch that I am an expert on all things Polish Railways related.

    The game is fine, it's fun enough and in the multiplayer experience I have had so far it's been good - no griefers or 'gankers' yet. Everyone I've interacted with has been helpful (how do you gank a train by the way?)

    It scratches one itch that TSW doesn't with the length of the routes included but the graphics of TSW are a good way better.

    There should be room for both sims on the market, the scope of SimRail is different to that of TSW and I'm encouraged by what I've seen of it so far. Who knows, perhaps I will end up being to pronounce some Polish place names eventually.

    Additionally the EU07 is such an appealing old clunker :) and makes some fantastic noises too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
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  8. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    Its almost funny. It is most post in here in Dovetail forum to discuss Simrail than in Simrail own forum or some other forum
    (maybe except Discord)
     
  9. reallychummy

    reallychummy Member

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    Most of the posting there is on the Polish Language forum but the English one gets reasonable traffic from what I've seen.
     
  10. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Yea. Lots of tsw players see simrail as the real tsw competitor and will bring tsw to its demise (exaggeration) but you get the point. So lots of people have been playing simrail in the tsw community hence why the high number of replies here lol
     
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  11. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    You need to own Simrail to post in the forum, so those of us who are keeping our distance and seeing how it develops can't post there.
     
  12. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    What is the link to their forums.
     
  13. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Unless they get their editor suite out and/or broaden the choice of route I don't really see SimRail as a viable competitor to TSW or TSC any time soon. I too like the old clanker EU07 and the Polish railway environment, but not everyone wants to drive something outside their own country or comfort zone - many train simmers are a bit parochial.

    Discussion here is primarily looking at what both have to offer and it is good that DTG are allowing a balanced debate to take place around the products. Playing SimRail will not stop me having a go on TSW (as I did earlier) or buying new content for TSW (or TSC) if it's something I want. You're not going to see Tees Valley, North Trans Pennine, Sandpatch Grade or Peninsula Corridor over there any time soon (or the great routes from TSC).
     
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  15. Arpadiam

    Arpadiam Active Member

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    I'm loving it, The mp is good, did several runs and got nothing but good experience, when others players honk and you feels awesome
    visually have nothing to envy to TSW, the night looks far better without that over-bright broken lightning in stations that tsw3 suffers, going into tunnels, omg get away from here tsw', simrail have done better that you

    so far i'm addicted to it and i dont think this will stop
     
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  16. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    Me to loving it. Drove it in darker in multiplayer last night and it feels so right comparing To TSW.
    Love to meet others train with "real" person in. often honked at meetings.
    Had to wait for a few minutes in red signal, because the track was crowded, as it is in reality too.
    The physics also feel so right. maybe some train brakes are too strong, but it's like small things that can be fixed on the way

    Freight train It feels like a Run8+ TSW. Best train feeling in all simulators I think.
    Run8 Psychics + almost TSW graphics =Simrail
    and this is just the beginning. Think in 1 to 3 years....

    Will probably not abandon Tsw Directly, but clearly they have gained a serious competitor.
    so I hope Dovetail learns a thing or two from these.

    TSC i have already abandon. Hopeless Psychics
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
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  17. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    So far what I have played SimRail found to be enjoyable and look forward to playing more.
     
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  18. Conductor B

    Conductor B Well-Known Member

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    You know, this actually speaks volumes about Dovetail's open-mindedness. Kudos to them for allowing open praise of their competition. I've heard of may other forums banning users for doing what many do on here.
    I think both games have their place and I see competition as being mutually enriching. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that SimRail truly did "destroy" TSW/Dovetail, that would be a bad thing. It'd be bad for SimRail as well as for TSW.
     
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  19. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Imagine how much damage it would cause if such threads were getting deleted. Also, they can get some constructive feedback here if they want, e.g., like, how the sound design in SimRail is miles ahead of TSW. The game is hit-and-miss but damn, does it sound good.
     
  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well there is a problem with the EU07 sound. When you have the windows down there is either a contaminated sound loop or ambient leak which has voices talking in the background. Wasn't present in the play test. Like TSW there is no reverb passing under bridges etc., just very flat.

    Had another go last night but game not at it's best. Took over a train on the southern route, managed about 3km before getting snarled in a traffic jam. Looks like a signalbox ahead crewed by a live player was either overwhelmed or deliberately stacking trains to cause a snarl up. 30 minutes of time wasted.
     
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  21. denis

    denis Well-Known Member

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    Having played I must say that at this moment given label early access SimRail turns to be a success not a fail at all!


    Driving a train makes an awesome pleasure due to physics and sounds. For me a lack of save option was a serious drawback but I repeat - driving process compensates this moment that I've noticed 300 km route is short for me [​IMG]


    By the way, yesterday one of SimRail devs explained that they are going to solve a save issue by implementing system of checkpoints where you can save your game for example at stations.
    Need more time table and save function for singleplayer - General Discussion [Singleplayer] - SimRail Forum
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
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  22. denis

    denis Well-Known Member

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    You forget how long trains were getting snarled in traffic jam in paid DLC London Commuters, and only recently this proplem has been resolved with 3 patches.

    Yesterday I was killed with freindly fire 8 times playing Hell Let loose;)
     
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  23. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good point and for EU07 it's simply a licenced produced and Modernized Class 83 WCML South 1960s era locomotive. If Simrail gets EU46 Vectron and EU44 Huzarz then DTG will respond with DB BR193 & 183 OBB Baureihe 1293 & 1216. Those are the German speaking Austria & Germany designations for those locomotives from Poland
     
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  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Had another go yesterday evening but there are still so many issues, even for early access.

    Station stop came up on the timetable... except there was no station at the location, resulting in it not registering and losing 1000 XP points! Someone else reported same at another location. We may moan about the odd bit of missing scenery or Reigate on BML, but at least DTG don't put a route out with an entire station missing and no interactive triggers.

    Retreated to TSW3 and a nice freight run on Rhein Ruhr Osten instead. SimRail teetering on being uninstalled here.
     
  25. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    Which has nothing to do with the issue and is now resolved. Griefers are a not resovable issue and have ruined entire games in the past.
     
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  26. traindori

    traindori Well-Known Member

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  27. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I finally refunded last night. Can’t put my finger on why I don’t like it, but as a single player game it’s just not for me. I’m not interested in Multi Player or an Editor.

    I’m still watching progress though. It’s got a lot of potential.
     
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  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Might just be me but getting the impression interest in this is already declining. Loads of bugs including at least two stations completely missing, servers dropping out. Discussion has tailed off on the official forum, dubeity on the single player game and whether there will be a save feature not resolved.

    If anything, SimRail has actually reinvested me into TSW and TSC, really enjoying running through my route collection both in Journey mode and exploring layers in the timetable.
     
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  29. DmitriSkif

    DmitriSkif Active Member

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    It means just SimKol makes training systems not only for PKP railroad operator, but for city transport too. They update now both from old proprietary engine to Unity3d and launch two commercial games to make some extra money.
     
  30. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Correct and in the description it mentioned the USA which means there must be an agency that uses Simkol software in their training simulator. Although licensed
     
  31. DmitriSkif

    DmitriSkif Active Member

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    I've seen Polish software (old version) for city buses many years ago when I also worked in simulation business.
     
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  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I believe so.
     
  33. denis

    denis Well-Known Member

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    Fully immersed in SimRail. Yesterday tried to play some missions from SEH and Cajon Pass ( my favorite) and they seemed me so boring and artificial would say rather cartoonish after SimRail.
    Strange, is it? )

    I was not interested in multiplayer too much but after having played some sessions realized -it is great! The railway world turns to be ambient and atmospheric if you interact with other people.
    Concerning SP – driving 3 hours even without a save button is one of excitements that game has given to me.

    SimRail is closer to ZUSI 3 but more interactive and playable.
     
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  34. reallychummy

    reallychummy Member

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    I'm still enjoying it. I have 15 hours in it (mostly multiplayer, mostly EU07) and I find the randomness of multiplayer appealing. Chatting with the signal box guys about delays etc, hooting at other player trundling about. It's more alive than TSW3 that feels a little 'sterile' now for me.

    I may well burn out on it, but not yet.

    The perfect rail sim will not be created so if you are waiting for it, go and buy HmmSim Metro and learn Korean.
     
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  35. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I am still enjoying SimRail have gone into MP yet but as I get better in SP then I will venture over.
     
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  36. Xander1986

    Xander1986 Well-Known Member

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    So much hype for nothing.... I can only reply... I told you xD
     
  37. DmitriSkif

    DmitriSkif Active Member

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    Well, sincerely said, original Railsimulator started better in 2008! ;) And it already has had Editor out-of-a-box.
     
  38. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    I think it was too overhyped lol
     
  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    And many of us unfortunately bought into it, figuratively and literally in some cases. It might come good but my personal feelings are the developers are struggling with what they put out now, let alone anything else on top like an editor. The fact they couldn't figure out they needed a save game and parts of the route are unfinished says it all to me.

    The redeeming feature is the EU07 as it is a nicely done loco. Maybe DTG need to do or commission a Polish route and EU07 for TSW as a bit of competition, that would be fine by me.
     
  40. DmitriSkif

    DmitriSkif Active Member

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    Uh, come on, they will just buy another one outsource content making team like Rivets !
     
  41. traindori

    traindori Well-Known Member

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    Those who really wanted multiplayer praised Simrail to heaven. For single players, however, the whole thing is disappointing and I think the direction here is clear. If you criticized that, you were practically stoned. ^^

    I'll stay with TSW and look forward to new content.
     
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  42. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    correct and for EU07 it's electrical system is the same as a Class 83 WCML South 1960s locomotive. The reason for this is that the EU07 is a licensed produced class 83 locomotive which has a version there called the EU06. For DTG their best option is Berlin Frankfurt am Oder Reppen (Repzin) Posen (Poznan) or Breslau (Wroclaw). Remember Polish city names are hard to pronounce for a German speaker as seen in this Reddit post. Therefore TSW 3 German language version needs to use the German name for a polish city. For example, DTG if they make Berlin Wroclaw for TSW 3 the German name seen in German language TSW 3 stores will use Berlin Breslau Therefore that route can be abbreviated as HBBr Hauptstrecke Berlin Breslau
     
  43. denis

    denis Well-Known Member

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  44. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    A good set of fixes, that's a promising sign.
     
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  45. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so, but have already decided to have a "Festival Of Germany" in TSW this coming week... :)
     
  46. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    It's a very promising sign too see the work they have done on fixing it.
     
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  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Have they put the two completely missing stations in or fixed the audio bleed in the EU07, when you can hear voices with the cab window down? The notes are a bit vague on that. Also doesn't seem much improvement to the SP game.
     
  48. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    It is early access in Simrail. They are very clear that the game has limitations and is wrong in certain parts.
    They estimate that it will take 3-6 months before the first Simrail 1.0 comes out.
    Do you remember TSW1. When it came out. The fps was so bad and the physics on the trains were barely there.
    I almost got angry when they drove the trains.
    But now after 4 years it is quite good. But you cant save. the barriers do not go down for trains. (I not sure it applies to all routes)
    You cant edit trains length. Multiplayer they talk about in beginning now it decided not.
    so in a few years I think we will have a lot more stuff in Simrail than in TSW. I have a lot of fun in Simrail already now.
     
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  49. DmitriSkif

    DmitriSkif Active Member

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    Patch is awesome . At least distant fog and terrain were added, so picture became much more realistic. Flora was GREATLY improved, now it has a proper gamma and scale irregularity. There're still a lot of work, but just first patch has already improved playability well. Keep playing and waiting for modding API promised. Many visual and gameplay aspects would be fixed with a proper, professionally made 3rd Party content. TSW, as all we know, will never go this way.
     
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  50. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, if the modding API comes out that will be a big boon to Simrail. Frankly, the history of train sims is one of games that are mediocre at best in their vanilla state being saved by their modding capabilities.
     

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