PC Does Shunting Take This Long In Real Life Too?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by denizmert, Dec 23, 2022.

  1. denizmert

    denizmert Member

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    I just finished the scenario with the G6 shunt where you cut up an incoming freight train on the siding of the yard. If you stick to the speed limits and don't accelerate and brake aggressively so as not to cause excessive wear the engine and brakes (which isn't really a problem in TSW, but it is in real life), it takes over 2 hours, and that's despite not waiting long at all at red signals. The train had about 36 cars, as I recall, and it took that long. In the US, there are trains with over 100 cars, extremely long yard sidings, and rather sluggish locomotives (compared to the G6), do they need 6 hours to break down each train? Is there really no more efficient and convenient way to do this? Perhaps in real life several shunters can work in coordination, or do the regulations not allow two actively running trains to be so close together?
     
  2. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    IRL, when flatswitching here in the US, crews will usually use a method called "Kicking" where a crew will get up to speed, apply the brakes, then cut loose the section of cars they are switching.


    With larger rail yards that have one built, a hump yard can be used to break down and reorganize longer trains.
     
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  3. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well, yeah? That's why yards have separate shunting crews and locomotives, they have plenty to do, because it takes long.
     
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  4. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that either of these procedures would be possible in any version of TS or TSW, which is why even though some routes include hump yards, there are no "official" activities that make use of them.
     
  5. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Yes, almost all switching activities do take a lot more time than a point-to-point freight run. Both categories have their fascinations, but I very much prefer switching and always will.
     
  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I suppose in the real world the crews are getting paid for it, so two or three hours of back to back trundling up and down the yard is all in a days work. Two hours of doing it in the sim, as one of the switching scenarios on Clinchfield took, becomes mind numbingly boring. Of course in the real world certainly the UK most freight is handled via block trains which only require breaking down or forming up if it becomes necessary to detach a vehicle for repair or maintenance.
     
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  7. In real life if you have got a second man climbing down off the loco and switching all the points and doing the coupling then no it's not going to take as long.

    In the USA I believe they have crew's doing it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2022
  8. noir

    noir Well-Known Member

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    36 cars in EU is depending on wagon types something like 700-900 meter consist, that is on the very ceiling of what is even allowed in most countries due to station lenghts. Trains of such length are rather rare and most commonly it's container trains that go straight from terminal A to terminal B, and the content is sorted out with cranes, rather than moving the individual wagons around.

    I don't think this type of services in the game is very realistic, it's unlikely that one factory would get 36 wagons at once, or that the train would be super mixed with every wagon carrying something else as usually seen in the game. Even if you have multiple suppliers and receivers along the same route, it would be more like three distinct parts of the train, each having 2-8 wagons that are grouped by the destination. Route loco takes it into nearest station and rips the front/rear X wagons there, and factory loco then sorts out individually only this small part for their needs.

    As others mentioned, for needs of splitting long trains of wagons with individual destinations we use hump yards, where the train is decoupled and slowly pushed over a hill. As each wagon goes over the hilltop, yard master changes junction to a different directional siding, wagon goes down by own weight and is braked by brakes inside the tracks. This way you can very quickly build a brand new consist on each directional siding. But this is very limited operation, each country has maybe only like 5-10 yards capable of that. Sorting of such level is not done in random station on the route.
     
  9. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE...

    As others mentioned, for needs of splitting long trains of wagons with individual destinations we use hump yards, where the train is decoupled and slowly pushed over a hill. As each wagon goes over the hilltop, yard master changes junction to a different directional siding, wagon goes down by own weight and is braked by brakes inside the tracks. This way you can very quickly build a brand new consist on each directional siding. But this is very limited operation, each country has maybe only like 5-10 yards capable of that. Sorting of such level is not done in random station on the route.[/QUOTE]

    I'm very sure that hump yard switching simply cannot be simulated in any of DTG's train simulators. I wish that this were not true, but ...
     
  10. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Hump yard switching would be a lot of fun, and I notice that they modeled the one at Cumberland even though IRL it had been removed by 2016- presumably to keep that possibility open. But humping can only work if each car's air brakes are disabled, and there is no provision in the game for doing so.
     
  11. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I've shoved cars over the Cumberland hump a few times in the past in freedom on TSW2, The problem is IRL, the tracks would have a retarder to slow the cars as they are cut from the train being cut over the hump. But that isn't simulated so there is no way to slow the cars as they roll away, so you had to hope the track you let them on has no cars on it, or the car slows enough that it won't cause a derailment. (I have yet to try it on Barstows Hump on Cajon on TSW3.)
     
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  12. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    In real life this would have been performed using a Hump depending if the Yard is equipped with One. Most larger German yards use hump physics examples are Rbf Munchen Nord
    The video is from OBB Wien Kledering on how it's performed TSW 3 doesn't have OBB Baureihe 1064

    Missing RRO RSN Hagen Vorhalle hump operation In real life a DB BR290/294 is used to run the hump. If added in TSW 3 to merge RRO & RSN then we use DB BR363 & G6 for the hump
     
  13. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    One simmer's boredom is another one's pleasure & fascination.
     
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  14. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    A Trainz route I bought a while back includes a scenario that, according to its description, begins with a hump yard demonstration and allows the player to give it a try. I haven't run this yet, but this thread may inspire me to take it on soon.
     
  15. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Almost like it has potential for some kind of..... co-op gameplay.............
     
  16. Could open up the possibility. If I join my son on steam remote play I can open and close the doors at the station like the guard. Not sure if I can wander off in external cam though.
     
  17. keith#6962

    keith#6962 New Member

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    Yes in the USA we do
     
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  18. I found this the other day. Although it obviously didn't make shunting any faster as it didn't last very long.
    TDC-TheGrays-TaylorYard-LosAngeles-Lustig-02.jpg
     
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  19. steveownzzz#6107

    steveownzzz#6107 Well-Known Member

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    Just curious: Are you (and others) getting out of the loco and walking everywhere to throw switches and uncouple cars?
    I did that in the beginning before I figured out the interactive map and external camera.
     
  20. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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  21. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    That’s very clever. Thanks for linking.

    I watched some remote-control shunting of a UP oil train at Green River in Wyoming and it was obvious how much easier it was. The operator was skipping around changing points all whilst changing direction and beginning to reverse. A bit like driving the train from free-can in TSW.

    I was also surprised at how roughly the wagons were treated. They are clearly built for it though and it will clearly not harm them given the forces they endure in a long train. Obviously other workers had to be wary as the controller would not be able to see anyone in front of the train.
     

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  22. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    The procedure you've asked about would seem to offer the ultimate in realism, but would also in some cases prevent completion of a switching/shunting operation. I'm thinking in particular of one of the switching sessions on the TSW3 Cajon Pass route that I've yet to complete because before I can complete the final maneuver an AI engine (evidently with higher priority than mine even though it's just a single diesel unit) takes control of a switch, throwing it against my path. This happens even though I pause the action and use the "M" key to check and set switches (blindly, but it almost always does the job) without consuming operational time and maintain speeds very close to the designated speed limits. I've also experienced similar problems when not driving as fast as the activity's programmer would like me to has led to being stuck at a red signal (which never turns green and for which no visible reason exists).
     
  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It isn't even "realism," really; an engineer would not be coupling or throwing switches himself (in fact, leaving the cab is for good reason frowned upon). Yard workers or brakemen handle that.
     
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  24. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Well-Known Member

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    I do not understand about the "brakeman", I thought the brakes were controlled by the driver and not someone else
    If the brakes are handle by someone else, that may cause some delays in applying the brakes
     
  25. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Brakemen in current times do other things such as throwing switches, helping with splitting cars or doing conductor roles.
     
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  26. noir

    noir Well-Known Member

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    Different practice between US and EU. EU trains are generally one-manned, US freights have 2-3 people as far as I know. In EU most switches are controlled electronically by dispatcher, and other manual work on the train is carried by shunting/yard staff based in the station, not in particular train.
    Simple operations like uncoupling loco from the consist at the end of the journey can absolutely be done by the driver though. Stabilizing the train so you can leave the cab is routine operation: train brake to emergency -> train brake to off, and it's not going anywhere. And venting out the air helps with uncoupling the hoses too.
     
  27. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Depends. If you have an actual busy freight yard, then you will most likely have separate shunting crew.

    For example, I live near a big chemical plant in Hungary and they have their own freight yard for the tank cars and shunting locos with a 3 man crew. Driver does the driving, other two handle the switches and the coupling.

    And at least where I live, I don't remember the driver doing the coupling, even if it's just arriving or starting a journey. For example, if a trains arrive at a station and cars need to be either coupled or uncoupled, I will always see a crew assisting in it. Of course this crew is stationed at the station or yard, so the same 2-3 guy will help all trains at that station.
     
  28. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    IRL driving trains seems rather boring to me. If have played TSW for 1-2 hours it's nice most of the time, but I would not want to do is as a job. I like shunting tasks. It feels so cumbersome and lots of work, but I am afraid it is, though if you do this every day in the same way, you can do it much faster and in most cases an engineer and at least one shunter will be involved. The shunter is responsible for coupling, uncoupling and setting switches. Essentially is telling the driver where to go and when to go.
     
  29. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    "Brakeman" is a job title passed down from the old days even if it has little to do with the job's actual duties any more.* Historically, brakemen were aboard primarily to set the handbrakes on the cars, back before airbrakes were a thing. A dangerous job indeed, running along the catwalks and leaping from car to car, setting brake wheels to control a descent.

    *Some railroads still have "firemen," although today it means an engineer-in-training
     
  30. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Is that why so many boys ( and girls ) want to be engine drivers when they grow up. ;)

    ( At least that was true of my generation ).
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023

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