I realise NTP is one of the first TSW routes, however being one of the few routes set in it's time period and having a decent level of stock with it and in the heavy freight pack, I personally feel it deserves a timetable re-make. As a caveat I realise this is unlikely, I can imagine DTG have put NTP to bed and certainly wouldn't do any major work on it, but you never know I suppose. The current timetable doesn't even include train reporting numbers except for the freight pack and the expresses which would mainly have been Newcastle to Liverpool express services are all labelled Leeds to Manchester and vice versa. I was just interested in what the strength of feeling is on the forums amongst those who use the route? I don't think the timetable is busy enough and other trains could layer in. Class 31's were not unknown on the route from what I can gather. There were other services like the Scarborough to Liverpool service, I am not sure what they would have been formed of, possibly mark 1's if not mark 2's. The three car class 101 from TVL would be much more at home on the route than TVL set in the period it is. Also, why does the class 08 only have services in the morning? Just wondered what other users thoughts were?
I would love to see a NTP overhaul at some point. Honestly, a route extension to York would be worth it getting a fresh TSW3 revamp like SEHS. Certainly a timetable refresh, perhaps layering in more stuff from TVL, would not go amiss.
While I'll point out right away that I hardly play NTP nowadays, what I do strongly agree with is seeing a lot of the oldest TSW routes have a much-deserved major timetable re-make. I would certainly rather DTG take the time to improve older examples like NTP (as well as Munich-Augsburg, LIRR etc) to the same standard as the most recent TSW routes - I'm not bothered about the TSW 3 lighting upgrades etc, I just want some better gameplay. As TSW continues to evolve, I really hope DTG can think about how to improve some of the oldest routes in the game - there are already some fantastic ones and a Joe-inspired timetable upgrade would certainly bring a new lease of life for existing routes. I'd rather have this instead of a couple new routes entirely - would also be interested to hear what others think of such?
Oh, I am no fan of the TSW3 lighting and how it makes daytime look like someone has set up a floodlight directly over my shoulder that's reflecting off my screen, where everything is a different shade of white But timetable updates like on Bakerloo and the likes, gimme!
As an ntp local, I agree it should have a bit of work done to it. It needs a bit of a bigger timetable with the three car 101s and maybe some fictional ecs and depot movements for the 45 and 47. Also I 100% agree with the extension to York where we get to thrash the 45 and 47 to 100mph. Also a bit bias because it goes past my local, but from Huddersfield the route to Leeds via Bradford interchange (whilst keeping the other route that goes past Morley) which could be used by the 101 (not sure if that was realistic in the 80s).
I'm playing it quite a bit at the moment and would say that I'd really like to see the upgraded lighting and a newer, busier timetable (particularly with regards to AI services using the termini and the area around Huddersfield / Mirfield). I'm absolutely sure that this could be a really involving route - as you say, the Class 31 should certainly layer in here, and the Class 08 activities currently dry up really early in the morning - they should surely continue all day? The lack of AWS would be much more of a feature if we were more regularly coming up against yellows and reds on the route. I'd also like to see more in the way of cold start-ups and refuelling if it's possible to add that into timetable mode. Also think that GUVs should be added for more realistic newspaper / parcels trains (my understanding is that these would have been used rather than the game representation of the Mk1 BGs). We could also see 3-car 101s as well as the existing 2-car variant if it's period-appropriate. Completely agree on the York extension - I'd be more than willing to pay for that if it included a Joe-standard timetable and the lighting upgrades (this will be unpopular I'm sure but I'd pay up to the price of a new route again for that given the length of the extension and the value added to gameplay of the new timetable). I'm pretty sure that it would be correct to include a blue/yellow HST Inter-City set as well which could be the additional loco for between Leeds and York (and AI elsewhere).
I would love to see a timetable upgrade. The static stock are nice and do well to populate some yards, but the empty termini and sparse timetable aren't exactly ideal!
A timetable upgrade for NTP would be great, but it would have to be combined with fixing the signalling. You frequently get incorrect signal sequences with a home/starter signal at danger when the associated distant was off. My understanding is that AWS isn't present because the route didn't have it at that time, in which case I wouldn't support adding it.
It is my desire to do a timetable revise for NTP at some point (I have all the WTT for it), unfortunatley NTP has quite a number of signalling defects at the moment which a more active timetable would only exacerbate, that and some incorrect speed limits between Stalybridge and Miles Platting not helping matters. So at the moment I need to nab a signalling engineer to revise the signals before I think it wise to even attempt a timtable improvement. As for 08 services... It isn't entirely wrong that they stop early morning. In actuality the Manchester 08s would probably do most of its work late at night preparing all the newspaper departures from Manchester Victoria which were generally between about 11PM and 4AM, throughout the day there isn't much need for them. Huddersfields Pilot I don't think did much apart from adding and removing some vans from one of the late night parcel trains, Holbecks 08s did a bit more doing trip working around leeds, unfortunatley to areas we don't have modelled. The ones currently were a bit of a compromise at the time of creation, getting them working was rather a headache due to all kind of signalling and dispatcher nightmares, and they also had to be moved to later in the morning as NTP was so dark at night it made shunting impossible, so that is another alteration which is needed if an accurate timetable was to be made, improving the night lighting! There was also the whole miles platting out of memory crash which caused no end of headaches and precluded the addtion of the 31 to NTP, I think that issue has improved, haven't heard much in the way of crash reports there of recent memory. TLDR route has a number of issues so the time being it is only suitable for band aid fixes to the existing timetable. Should also be said, in terms of passenger trains, I think the timetable currently has more trains than actually ran in 1983 (only just though), although they aren't spread out very well at all, theres a pair of DMUs which follow one another round for half the day. The line did however have a much more active freight life... unfortunatley with a lot of stock we don't have such as the various ICI tank wagons of Anhydrous ammonia, caustic soda and other lovely chemicals, MGR hoppers etc etc
Would love to see an improved timetable, think the schedules could do with rounding/padding a bit as I find it quite difficult to keep time. I probably drive like an old woman but with the frequent speed restrictions it can be quite hard to exploit the line speed for any real distance. As I mentioned the other day, the Class 40 is crying out for a Journey mode and, even if not entirely accurate, layers for the Class 31 and Class 20 (with Journey mode) would be worth a small outlay. Probably not going to happen but a new traction pack with (perhaps) a Class 25 and Class 124 DMU would be a Day One purchase from me. Another loco which did appear briefly on the route after relegation to secondary duties were the legendary Class 55 Deltics though technically had gone by 1981 - though that's what a bit of flexibility is for in the sim and no worse than GWE Legends. Surely someone somewhere at DTG or the associates, must be itching to put a Deltic in the game!
While I love both 80s UK routes, TVL even a bit more than NTP, it's a "shame" that they are from TSW2020, and not a TSW3 release. I would love to see a route like that made with todays attention to detail, busy timetables, and maybe another loco DLC or similar to freshen up the experiences. But, to be honest, I'd love a route set in the 80s and 70s no matter the country or how short it might be.
I'm confused - are you a DTG employee like CactusJuice? Actually I'm quite surprised that there are more services in the timetable than is prototypical, and yet the route still feels quite empty! I have to replay Northern Transpennine to remind myself of why I enjoy it now. Maybe I played too much London Commuter...
Definitely needs a new TT, lots more AI in Manchester and Leeds. Also more shunts and an addon would go down well. I would suggest a 56 as this can then be used on current day routes with MGR hoppers to fill up some capacity and add interest.
Second party but I have a fondness for NTP, especially as it was the first route I ever worked on in TSW. I think the two DMUs following around each other 5 minutes apart doesn't help matters instead of being spread out well, about an hour apart! There is also all the none route traffic at leeds and manchester victoria (and a limited extent huddersfield) that is missing.
I’m not sure what state NTP is currently in but I know it has been tweaked and broken by various updates and I don’t know if the resulting issues have been rectified. I don’t currently have it in TSW3 (DLC limit on PS5 strikes again) to check. I think it needs to be looked at sooner rather than later to get all the old (and new) issues ironed out and then our dreams of a new timetable can be fulfilled. I know I’ve been frustrated fairly recently with previously working timetable runs getting halted at Huddersfield by red signals. That may have been in TSW2 but it is since the release of TSW3 timewise. It is a route that deserves some love as it is home to some of the best trains in TSW to this day. Hopefully DTG can allocate some time to get it sorted and you can work your magic.
That sounds exciting and is good to hear. I know it is an old route but it is very atmospheric and well made so hopefully it will get the care and attention you would like to give it in the future.
NTP is by far the best route as it manages to provoke many memories of my childhood and early adulthood even though I am not from and never worked in the area. A new timetable would really be brilliant and a 56 with MGRs and an extension to York would be even better. This year I would like BR diesels (whether it be this or a new route) to get some recognition in game as currently I feel like the past is being forgot or completely ignored.
I play it regularly in TSW3 and it works as well as it ever has - the occasional incorrect signal sequences are the only problem I experience, and they’ve always been there.
The Class 31 is one of my favourite locos and being able to use it on NTP would be a huge plus for me. Even if it's just a few odd services.
You can do so on TSW2 using one of ‘Alex’s Mini Substitution Mods’: https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/m...bstitution-mods-british-rolling-stock-edition Running a 31 on the 45/47 timings is a really interesting challenge. If you really work it hard and you get a clear run, it’s just about possible to keep time.
Very interesting, thank you. Hopefully in the not too distant future we will see upgrades to allow for a new timetable and of course at some point in the future maybe a couple of new DLC's (25, 55, 56) and a possible extension to York and/or Liverpool.
Another loco type is 37/0, often seem on stone and Cement trains. Pleases to see many commented on this thread. It shows there is an interest in this route and era.
Between NTP, TVL and WCL there is a massive opportunity to churn out a ton of UK 1st gen diesel traction and DMU DLC packs, especially given that anything vaguely modern always gets yet another version of the 66 (and always in the same frickin’ livery). Such low-hanging fruit, yet from a customer’s perspective it’s almost as if DTG simply can’t be bothered!
Another option if the route needs heavy work could be to bring it forward to the late 80s, fit AWS and put some large logos on the 47, TP livery on the mk2s and if the Rivet 150/2 was fixed this was a staple unit on the line from day one. Some may remember the yellow ends only being in the gangway doors. 31s would also be accurate on the West end of the route. One 40 only please though as 40122 (D200) was only one left by 1988. Alternatively extend to Liverpool using the SOS building as a end point.
Personally the 45s and 40s are one of the main draws of this route along with the lack of AWS so this would be better than nothing but I think that 1983 is pretty spot on for me.
That’s not a desirable thing to be doing. That would be completely changing the route and that is just not on. Those kinds of changes won’t be possible anyway but it is one thing to upgrade the timetable and a completely different thing to take away some of the things that are already there, change all the liveries and add AWS. Adding the Class 31 is as far as it should go with regards to what should change with rolling stock. The character of the route must remain the same.
I enjoy driving all the British routes but find I always come back to NTP to genuinely put a smile on my face while playing. Probably nostalgia from using the lines regularly as a youngster and agree that it could only benefit from an upgrade.
I've used the mid/late 80's era in scenario creator with LL 47's and TP livery on MK2's but any future changes to timetable mode, for me, MUST keep to the current era it's set in or a year or two earlier to include Deltics, can't be doing with not seeing 40's whistling around.
TBH I would prefer it to stay the same. Just getting pretty despondent over the lack of BR stuff now. As said all it needs is boost on the freight, more AI passenger around the main stations and ideally fixes on the bugs.
While I do like the TSW 3 lighting overall, I do agree that everything looks far too bright. Another thing too, I'm finding performance really good on a lot of the older routes compared with stuttering and micropauses on newer TSW 3 routes like Bremen. I'm really glad to hear there is passion for giving older routes a new lease of life timetable-wise to get them up to today's standard. If NTP did eventually get a timetable revise, I'd like to see DTG and/or second/third parties consider doing this for more older TSW routes like as mentioned Munich, LIRR, ECW, TVL etc.
I presume what was left out of his post was - "and then they can sell it as a separate route to fund the work on the new timetable".
I think it is time for another BR route, it’s been a long while and lots of modern stuff has been released since. That might be the best time to address NTP too, giving the BR stuff a big boost all in one go. At the most that would be an expansion pack to buy for the extra gameplay and liveries, and maybe a couple of extra freight wagons could be thrown in on top. That wouldn’t be too objectionable but I’d prefer the current timetable to be enhanced and signalling fixed as a free special projects upgrade.
It's nice to have a positive thread here with solid suggestions. I have been reacted to negatively elsewhere for daring to suggest that routes from A to B lose appeal with one train. NTP is pretty much A to B but due to the differing types of train it offers something potentially different every time. I appreciate a lot of work goes in to route creation so if its left as a one shot story then after time it will lose out in use and possibly purchases? I feel having spent decades following the scene my thoughts don't come with out substance.
I have been playing this route recently and even though I don't really prefer historic routes (I only have it because it was part of the TSW 2020 Deluxe Edition) it is a pretty good route. I am surprised that there are more services than originally intended because it somehow feels empty at the same time. I think if there was to be a new timetable, existing issues need to be sorted out. For instance, I get the route is set in the 1980s, but where the heck are the passengers? I find it hard to believe that stations such as Leeds, Manchester Victoria and Huddersfield were complete ghost towns in the 80s. I arrive into stations that have zero passengers all the time in NTP. Was COVID a thing in the 1980s as well? No point in having a busier timetable if stations are pretty much empty
I'd love for NTP to be expanded upon in some way. I'm a sucker for BR Blue stuff and despite being an older route & loco set I like the 40 and 45 and don't feel they miss much compared with more recent releases. I played a lot of this route in TSW2 but haven't really touched it in TSW3 as yet. A SEHS style overhaul would be lovely.
They have actually done the timetable exactly the same as it was in 1983. The only improvement I want is for them to add class 25s as they are my favourite class after Westerns.
No I don't think it was fitted at this point on this line though I must admit I am not sure enough on that to put any money on it.
Personally I'd like to see a 1960s steam /diesel transition timetable for the route. Starting a heavily loaded steam hauled freight out of Victoria would be quite a challenge... one could replicate banking operations. If they produce a green Peak or Whistler for Peak Forest it would make sense employing it on a 1960s timetable for this route too. The route itself didn't change much between 1965-1980, although some goods yards and lines were removed.
I think AWS was made mandetory sometime in the mid 70s as pWesterns did have AWS but Warships did not.
No, it was much later than that. In the early 80s minor routes mostly did not have AWS. Major routes normally did, although if they had absolute block signalling - as Leeds-Man Vic did - there was usually only AWS on the distant signal. I can’t say for certain whether Leeds-Man Vic had AWS by 1983 but I’m pretty sure DTG said it’s not in the game because it wasn’t fitted in reality by that date, and I’ve no reason to doubt that. It’s perfectly plausible for such a route in that era.
