Invitation For Dtg To Use My Signal Visuals

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by londonmidland, Jan 20, 2023.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    (DTG, you can use it. Just DM me for details)

    I’m quite disappointed that TSW 3 routes still use the extremely poor looking signal aspects for new UK routes, including the yet to be released Edinburgh to Glasgow route, by Rivet Games. I decided to take things into my own hands and fix it myself for the Birmingham Cross City route.

    I believe that these signals haven’t been set up to adapt to TSW 3’s much brighter TOD 4 lighting system, which is why they look so off.

    Not only did I make them brighter looking, but I also changed the actual aspect colours, to better represent their real life visuals.

    As you can see, the comparison below shows the difference between the default (left) and my version (right) All comparison shots were taken at the exact time of day and positioning. By default, the red aspect looks extremely poor, and can be mistaken for a yellow aspect.

    It’d be great for everyone to be able to benefit from this, and not just PC users that decide to download my fix. The actual metallic signal plate texture was initially a texture I made, however as you can see, it was officially added to the game. It would be great if you guys could also add these modifications officially to the game, too. :)

    D71D5912-7E1F-4143-96BF-677936798E4B.jpeg CFC53028-39FD-4BE7-AC91-14255D9FE519.jpeg 46E3055B-A597-4DEE-80F6-604D40599F24.jpeg
     
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  2. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Whether they use your visuals or not, the look and visibility of the signals really needs looking at for routes with the new lighting. This goes for all countries. I’ve given feedback myself of how red signals look yellow at first glance and how signals just can’t be seen in daylight until you are right up close.
     
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  3. jamster47

    jamster47 Well-Known Member

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    I love your work on Birmingham Cross City and its made such an improvement thank you.
    The enhancement pack was what convinced me to buy the route (and TSW3) after several months of not playing the sim.
    Don't know if it's me but with the enhancement pack I still find the red and yellow signals quite similar in shade and on approach its hard to tell if it's red or single yellow. Might be my eyes or monitor but in real life the red signal seems much deeper and therefore quite a contrast to the yellow.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
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  4. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the feedback :) Just to clarify, did you download the revised signal colours mod too? I uploaded that separately, after I uploaded the main mod. That should help with distinguishing signal colours better.
     
  5. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The actual flare of the signals needs to be vastly improved too in my opinion. The current one looks so poor. It looks like something out of a 90s game.

    From the cab of the Class 323, here is a comparison of signal sighting. (Note I have lens flare disabled)

    86BEA0F8-5165-4E87-975C-62C8D56382E9.jpeg
     
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  6. AlexNL

    AlexNL Well-Known Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree with this. The visibility and colour correctness of UK signals on the TSW 3 native routes is way off from what they should be, your BCC enhancement mod is a necessity. In my view the work you've done there should be elevated to become the standard.
     
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  7. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    Oddly I find the DTG red looks much more red in external view than from the cab. When driving I have to have the external camera set up facing forward just above the roof of the cab. Every time I approach a signal which isn’t green I briefly switch to external view to check which aspect it is. Not the most immersive thing to be doing!

    Thank goodness for londonmidland’s mod. I agree it should be adopted in the main game.
     
  8. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    WOW, is that middle screenshot really a red signal? That's just awful! I agree your mod makes it looks much better and your offer should be taken up by DTG forthwith
     
  9. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    In some cases the color just looks wrong. You really see red, while the HUD says it's green.
     
  10. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    One of the big issues is that the signals themselves haven’t been set up to TSW 3 lighting standards. They remain at TSW 2 settings. This causes the aspects to look extremely dim and in some cases display the colours oddly (red in this case)
     
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  11. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Yes. The middle screenshot really is supposed to be red! I was really surprised at this and initially thought it was a yellow aspect because of how it looked.
     
  12. Isaak

    Isaak Well-Known Member

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    I do agree that it's very difficult to distinguish yellow from red signals in UK routes (SEHS, ECW, BML and BAK). Thanks for your work, I hope they become default in future updates.

    DTG Matt , please feel free to pass these enhanced signal LED's to the correct development team.
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I do agree London Midlands signal mods to Cross City are much more realistic and clearer. I have noticed in the past some yellow and red signals can be hard to tell apart. It would be nice if DTG used your mod or even did their own.

    Your mods certainly make sighting signals easier on TSW and thank you for them.
     
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  14. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Isaak theorganist Thanks for the comments guys. This is one of the first changes I make to routes. I’ve also adjusted the material of inside of the lens. So it is now far less reflective from light sources, thus reducing glare reflections from headlights. It also makes the inside of the unlit lens look less like a ‘cheese grater’.
     
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  15. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    New signals are far better visually than stock
     
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  16. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Great work. This improvement is much needed.
     
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  17. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Even if they don’t want to improve the signals, they definitely need to increase the difference between red and the yellow.
    On SEHS particularly I can rarely see what I’m coming up to as the red looks yellow.
     
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  18. I'm happy just installing your mods. Few little tweaks here and there without introducing other problems.
     
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  19. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. For a console player like yourself, it’d be great if you could benefit from this improvement as well.
     
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  20. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I had a particularly hard time distinguishing yellow from red so I decided to just fix it myself.

    Glad you enjoy them. Look out for an upcoming enhancement pack which I’ll be creating for Rivet’s Edinburgh to Glasgow route.
     
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  21. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Another issue I found with the stock signals is that they have an awful flickering issue when viewed from a distance. My mod fixes this problem thankfully.
     
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  22. Looking forward to both.
     
  23. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    londonmidland try reaching out to Matt and JD to see if they can change it by tagging them, hopefully, they will response.
     
  24. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I would’ve thought they’d see this thread themselves. I don’t want to unnecessarily tag them.
     
  25. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    You're basically doing their work, for free. I'd say spending a minute reading this topic is well worth their time. Your signals look amazing. Any chance you can do upgrades to other (non-UK) signals as well? :)
     
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  26. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    Hey LM, count me in among the many voices singing praises of your signal enhancement on BCC, it really makes a difference. Thank you so much for doing this for the community, and yes, DTG really ought to use your brighter, better-coloured aspects.
     
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  27. TrainsMag795

    TrainsMag795 Member

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    Yes, thanks again for the great work you do. TSW is so much better because of you.
     
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  28. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the comments :) I may apply it to SEHS and possibly BML IF the latter route gets upgraded to TSW 3 lighting.

    I can’t do anything to signals until the actual route has been upgraded to TSW 3 lighting standards.
     
  29. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate the comments guys :)
     
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  30. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Damn, what a difference! They really need to remake signals, and not only on UK routes. In daylight the signals are barely visible on Cajon Pass as well. Even if you see them, you will only know if it is yellow because of it being positioned in the middle, but colorwise it looky pretty close to the red one for quite a while until you get close.
     
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  31. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I see you’re reluctant to tag DTG Matt - but I think he deffo needs to see this, so I’ve tagged him. Anything that improves the game for us players is a win win for everyone. Come on Matt, let’s be having this!
     
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  32. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue is the signal colours and intensity of them on all routes have been untouched for a very long time. This has been made worse by TSW 3’s higher intensity lighting.
     
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  33. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think the devs check the forums on the weekends but hopefully tomorrow they’ll see it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023
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  34. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    ...nice signal lights glow effect and as always good work! It's precisely these small details that make TSW even more convincing. Hope it'll be part of a future core update so that everyone can benefit from it.
     
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  35. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I too love the way it looks, as the light from the LEDs glows onto the unlit LEDs. It makes it look more 3D like.
     
  36. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is why I made my signalling mods - in Rivet's latest video, you can see the signals have awful viewing angles, with some of the signals looking unlit.

    The actual signal is barely emitting a light, with the lens flare doing most of the work here. Behind the flare it looks like the signal is blank.

    upload_2023-1-22_22-32-4.png
     
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  37. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    (DTG JD DTG Matt Poke. Just in case you haven’t see this thread)
     
  38. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Hey, thanks for sharing, londonmidland.

    Don't worry, we've seen it - I've asked Matt and team to review it when they get some spare time (can't give a time at the moment, I'm afraid).
     
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  39. Ant Craft

    Ant Craft Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I agree. It's a world of difference between the old signals and the new ones. If it wasn't for hid signal aspects (easier to just keep it on for when I drive in places I'm unfamiliar with their signal types), then I'd probably end up have driving through a lot of red signals thinking they're yellow, cause as it stands atm, it's very hard to tell the difference. In general though, I think signals could really do with some TLC. Having seen APs new signal EP for Train Sim Classic, it'd be really cool to see more realism in how the signals work like going through the different aspects to get to a particular aspect, and the older signals fading in and out as the turn on. So while I don't expect anything like that to be implemented, at least not anytime soon, having the signal colours and brightness be much more spot on will be a great start, and vastly improve the readability of them over what we have currently.
     
  40. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Whilst they are looking at it is it possible to increase the draw distance for signal lights and train headlights?
    In reality you can see a signal light before you can see the signal post itself, especially with modern led ones. The same goes for modern headlights on trains. Currently you see a train with no lights then they just pop in when you get close.
    If it’s just a light I can’t that see it would hit performance too hard?
     
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  41. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the response. Hopefully the team will get some spare time to add it to the game - quite a few players seem quite keen on it, as you can see! :)
     
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  42. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Same here. I don’t drive with the signal HUD on and found it very hard to distinguish between the colour of the signal aspects with their default colours. I decided to do a bit of digging and changed them myself. They were incredibly dim too.

    The next step DTG can possibly take is to make the signals glow from further away.
     
  43. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I’d like if they could increase the distance too. In reality, you can see LED signals for miles under clear conditions.
     
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  44. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I second that regarding train headlights. They really need to add headlight flare effect to trains, similarly to signals, so train headlights don't just pop into view 100m from you.

    Performance from simple 2D light corona effects should be pretty much none. As said, signals already have them without a problem. And I mean decade old games like TS Classic, MSTS or Trainz have been doing them since the beginning.
     
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  45. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    LM, do hope that you will work your magic on the new Scottish route once its out.
     
  46. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Oh absolutely. It’ll be one of the first things I plan to fix with it.
     

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