Upcoming Release Train Sim World 3: Laudable Lowlands

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Alex, Jan 19, 2023.

  1. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Jasper_Rivet - It looks like Rivet have done a fantastic job recreating this route. Barring any jarring issues during the livestream, this could be another day one purchase of a Rivet route. Excited!
     
    • Like Like x 5
  2. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,473
    Likes Received:
    1,010
    I wonder how many are going to go for the day 1 purchase? I am still waiting for the preview before making a decision;)
     
  3. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,989
    Likes Received:
    3,637
    waiting to find out on whether theirs noticeable bugs from the preview and obviously check what’s been told against what’s their. hopefully nothing bad and it’s an enjoyable look at the route.

    If All goes well, it’s ready for a Day 1 Purchase from me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    527
    Nope 314s never ran on the route or even went near the route I don't understand why there is a 314 layer its not realistic especially if the route is 2019+ when the 314s got scrapped
     
  5. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    527
    No freight doesn't run on the route in real life the only thing you would see is network rail stock or RHTT stuff
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 3
  6. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2022
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    1,078
    yes but ai trains will have it on automatically, so i’m hoping they can be turned off too
     
  7. anarchy99

    anarchy99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2021
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    403
    Pleased to see return of 10% pre-order discount on Steam. Offer runs all the way up until release on 26 January therefore I will wait for preview stream presuming there is one on Tuesday 24 January.

    Feedback for DTG: I have enjoyed viewing Rivet Games' YouTube content leading up to this release. Naturally, it has increased my interest in this particular DLC and I am now far more likely to make a purchase :)
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  8. dudders

    dudders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2021
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    324
    Let's hope it plays well with not to much stuttering
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    2,651
    Subject to the preview stream, this is a day 3 purchase for me :)
    I just like to be different (also the Game Pass discount might be live by then).
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    As about five others have said previously, they're probably representing farewell railtours, which did run on the route.

    There is a surprising amount of pessimism on here for what I think is the most exciting route to come out since BML. it does make me think that people have it in for Rivet, and can't fathom that they MIGHT have actually built a really good route.

    Regarding layers, what did people expect? They can't just magic a new train out of thin air for a few AI services. Sure we've got the trams for scenery (a fantastic first step), but they will mostly be in the background. You'll likely be lucky to glimpse them in most services. Having an AI train is different, as they'll be running right alongside you, so they need to be as detailed as the player driven trains.

    The only realistic option is an HST, but I assume Rivet didn't have the time to model automatic doors for the Mk3, and/ or weren't willing to put it in in GWR livery for the sake of immersion, which I can respect. Even if they were in the game, you wouldn't be able to drive them anywhere.
     
    • Like Like x 12
  11. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    What I mean is the contact strips don't look right, they look to wide and far apart. It should look like this upload_2023-1-20_12-10-56.jpeg
    Furthermore when I talk about the OHLE I'm talking about the wires specifically. As you can see the wires don't seem to have any termination points if you look closely. upload_2023-1-20_12-13-29.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

  12. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2021
    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,641
    I completely agree! Ever since the first teasers were published about a month ago, the sense of excitement in the community has been incredible. The amount of threads and comments discussing the DLC is very high. Many players clearly appreciate the amount of transparency Rivet is displaying leading up to release.
    I hope DTG is looking at this marketing campaign carefully, because it’s doing many many things correctly! In particular, the early teasers and in-depth dev blogs stand out to me. A great way to generate buzz and excitement compared to 1-2 written articles in the week leading up to release.
     
    • Like Like x 16
  13. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Messages:
    2,395
    Likes Received:
    4,268
    No termination points with counterweight at switches that’s a shame because on the Arosa Line it was that detailed
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    1,781
    It might be ok after the first few goes and looks good from the promo shots. However not including the few miles of railway via Grahamston mean that its same runs every time. Comparing it to BML isn't a good comparison. If BML came without the Redhill lines then it's closer. A real chance was lost here to create something close to Dresden Riesa or BML but instead it's A to B and back and that's your lot. That's before looking at the lack of AI. All Glasgow to Aberdeen, Perth and Inverness services will be missing. All XC, LNER, Lumo, TPE and CS also. I'm not knocking Rivet for the work on the buildings and route but an extra few miles of railway to Stirling and a sliding door HST would have gone a seriously long way.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. Lunar_Twisted

    Lunar_Twisted Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2019
    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    426
    As much I enjoyed playing Cathcart Circle Line, I am certainly looking forward to playing another Scottish rail.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2021
    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,641
    I seriously don’t get the negativity of some people here. This is already Rivet‘s longest route to date and has some features the community has been asking for for years. Yet you keep demanding more. You can’t just “build a few more miles of track”. There are also lots of stations in that area, which actually take most of the work. And you can’t just add new doors to the HST, you would have to change literally every part of the train as I doubt players (and ScotRail) would be happy with a half-baked mix of the GWE and new versions.

    I bet you 100% that even if they built the additional lines you’re demanding and added the new HST, you would find another point to complain about and write the exact same comment about it.
     
    • Like Like x 17
  17. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    1,781






    Not demanding, suggesting that their 29.99 product is comparable to other 29.99 products. That's fair game. I have refunded every Rivet product bought so far they have been that bad so suddenly applauding them for doing a route which is a one trick with lifts pony is not going to happen. People using the word immersion driving on greens with nothing else running is puzzling......
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    679
    Well I think Rivet should be congratulated on producing a route that has both too many trains and not enough trains, is superbly detailed while not being detailed enough and is confirmed to be both perfect and terrible before it is launched. Some effort! :)
     
    • Like Like x 14
  19. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2020
    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    426
    Well put, just shows that you can’t please everyone.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  20. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    3,492
    I honestly think the hate for Rivet is way overdone. It almost seems personal for some people.

    While their content has issues, I applaud that they try to do some different things and add new features that SHOULD benefit the game as a whole including working TrainFX (Luzern) and now working TMS on E-G.

    Ideally, DTG and other 3rd-parties can now use these features on new routes where appropriate.

    I'm not saying they can't improve more, but I think they're heading in the right direction.

    FWIW, the much-reviled WCL has quietly become one of my faves- inaccuracies aside, I just enjoy driving it, and there's actually a nice variety to the services.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  21. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2022
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    688
    I hope DTG JD and DTG Matt don the kilts for the livestream preview

    whiskey and bagpipes will also do
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    4,025
    Likes Received:
    3,260
    For me I will be getting during the pre-order to take advantage of the lower price.
     
  23. frabjousvector

    frabjousvector Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2021
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    313
    This looks very solid indeed, might pick it up. In fact the only major gripe I have so far is the fact that someone used the word “laudable” in an article, let alone a headline. Such a clunky word.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    I don't have an opinion on the quality of this upcoming dlc. Nobody really knows how it will turn out, at least until we see a stream ( which I trust will include some night driving. )

    My lingering question is: With BCC and this Rivet route, are DTG and its partners embarking on a pattern of A to B commuter routes with one driveable electric push- and- run, minimal if any AI traffic, no freight, no branch lines and largely empty main line terminuses?
    At $40 a pop?

    Ah, for those heady days of SPG, GWR, TVL and NTP. Real value for money in comparison to current offerings, I would say.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
    • Like Like x 9
  25. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    I wasn't comparing it to BML, just that it's the most excited I've been for a route since BML. I seem to be in the minority in that I don't mind A to B routes. I'll concede that the route really should have included Stirling, but I'm not up in arms over it's exclusion. I think it's a big ask when Rivet have already created a route far more substantial than their previous products. If this was a DTG route I'd have been more disappointed.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    9,162
    Personally I prefer these terminus to terminus runs.

    Having half cocked services does nothing but leave me wanting more, where as A-B focused routes are more likely to be end to end, and that for me is the best sort of route.

    The only way we’re going to get multiple service patterns is if we get shorter routes, or they’re all services which end far before they do in reality.

    Again, this route has quite a lot we’ve been asking for over the years, you can’t expect Rivet to come along and give us the world in one DLC.
     
    • Like Like x 16
  27. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2021
    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,641
    Interesting point, and I agree. You can probably count the number of “really big station to really big station” routes in the game on one hand. I like routes that start and end at fitting locations, not somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  28. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    527
     
  29. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2018
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    576
    Latest Route Video:-
     
    • Like Like x 10
  30. mortal1234

    mortal1234 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2022
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    339
    Looks amazing and especially at night. :D
     
  31. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,976
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    I think those people that either don't like Rivet products full stop or have had a bit of a bad experience with a Rivet product are always going to put their products in bad light no matter what. Personally I have enjoyed the dlc so far and although some of it have not used it for a while the only real one that I took a bit of a moan at was the sounds on the 1938 stock. And the quality of the Isle of Wight Class 483 at launch but that was it. I will still use it (when the DLC manager is about) and I wont get all prissy about it. I have moaned about it said my thoughts and moved on. To other people maybe that's maybe harder for them todo. Fair enough.
    From what I have seen of the pics and some of the video that Rivett has released I really do like the look of it and look forward to its release, as well as Tuesday nights preview.

    Hentis
     
    • Like Like x 12
  32. Class156

    Class156 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2020
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    285
    If it's good on stream, it's a day one purchase for me. The signs so far are very encouraging!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  33. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2021
    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,641
    Same. I usually don’t go for day 1 route purchases (last one was Tharandter Rampe one year ago), but Rivet has been very transparent so far.
    Normally, you have no idea about the quality of the route before the preview stream as the most footage DTG usually shares is some screenshots. But they’ve been trending in the right direction as well with these short videos of the locos in the Training Center, for example.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  34. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    9,162
    Personally I don’t have a great opinion of Rivet’s TSW work, however I’m more then open to giving them a fair chance when they announce new stuff, I’m eager to see the preview for this new DLC, as from what I’ve seen so far, they’ve knocked it out the park.

    I think we’ve seen a marked improvement with their content releases, each one is increasing in quality, however when it comes to this, the only comparably sized DLC from Rivet is their Cornwall route. Going purely off that experience I do worry Rivet may of bitten quite the chunk off here, but let’s see.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  35. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2021
    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,641
    My theory: The last “big” route by DTG was Luzern-Sursee almost a year ago. In mid-2022, they released the updated Island Line. While the loco developers had to make a whole new train for that route, the scenery team “only” had to make relatively minor updates to some stations and surrounding areas. This probably meant they were finished with that project much earlier than the loco developers and thus could spend lots more time on Glasgow-Edinburgh. This is why we’re seeing all these cool additional details. Of course, the loco team used their experience gathered on Island Line (guard mode etc.) to make the Class 385 amazing as well. :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  36. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    393
    Looks good, but still looks as typical route on UE4 - I prefer waiting Network ScotEast for TS, which will more detaile))
     
  37. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    10,149
    I'm willing to give Rivet all the credit they deserve for Edinburgh- Glasgow, depending on the preview stream and forum reviews, but, in the end, it's another A- B commuter route with one electric go-kart, of which we have a plethora in TSW.

    I'm just not that excited for it. I feel like I did with BCC, wait a month or two and buy it at a discount.

    Unless it turns out to go " yard " as we say over here and astonishes us all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
    • Like Like x 2
  38. Gtasandman

    Gtasandman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2021
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    109
    you can really say that about any route in tsw.

    Everyone has diff preferences. i love EMUs so i dont mind. BCC seemed repetitive so i didn't buy it but im not complaining because it beats having another German route with a red train.

    I will say im hoping for a DMU route in the future or some switching route like that TSC NJ delivery route. who knows maybe they can sell the class 170 as a layer on this route.
     
  39. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    Well said.

    Agreed, railtours would probably allow the most flexibility, considering any older loco should be able to be used as a substitute. Best way to enjoy the collection of trains we've built up over the past years.

    I don't see how Rivet being a smaller team has anything to do with it. This route has the same price tag as the recent DTG routes, which means we can assume the development cost being similar. That's the same amount of man-hours. Rivet being a smaller team would mean they'd need more time to reach the same amount of man-hours, but it's in no way an excuse to deliver an inferior product for the same price tag. TSG is basically a one-man company and yet manages to deliver some good content for a good price, even though it takes a while to develop.

    And then there's the design choices that have been made. You can spend development time in creating more milage. Or you can spend it on functional elevators. Not saying these are equal in the amount of development time needed, but they are design choices. Rivet chose to focus on these kinds of things.

    Ok, the UK has a disadvantage because of the wide range of operators each using their own rolling stock. Unlike Germany, where we have seen a pretty good amount of layers & substitutions, to the point where we almost got tired of seeing Dostos. For the UK, at least the BR Blue era content (which we haven't seen a lot of lately) has some decent cross-over layering&substitution going on.

    But in the end, it is all about choosing which routes and locos to make. We've got two ScotRail routes and they don't really have any notable cross-over layering&substitution. That's a design choice. Similarly, I have no clue why we haven't seen any BR Green era route which would benefit from the rolling stock from WSR and its loco add-ons. And Spirit of Steam suffers from the same problem. That's all design choices. Now I'm not familiar with Scotland and what locos runs where, but perhaps, the current two routes (Catchard and this one) in the chosen era aren't the best choice. At least, not if cross-over layering&substitution are anything considered important.

    And, to make things worse, the Class 385 has the much discussed window-issue. And that's pretty nasty for a one-train route as there's almost no way to enjoy the route (which admittedly seems to be nicely detailed) in any other train. Which makes layering&substitution even more important. And, which is, in the end, the reason for me to put the route on my ignore list, rather than on my wishlist. The window issue was the deciding factor for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
    • Like Like x 7
  40. arek#2842

    arek#2842 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2022
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    506
    I don't think the window itself it to be blamed here, after all, it is re-created as in real life.

    The issue might be the in-cab camera position I think. Maybe it could be positioned more closer to the windshield perhaps to make it occupy more space on the display and therefore let the player to see more (I'm not sure if that would be the final effect of that)?

    I'm ignoring zoom in option as the "feel" of train's speed is suffering from that: when zoomed in I get the feeling that the train is driving slower than it is in fact, compared to regular, zoomed out view from the cab.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  41. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2019
    Messages:
    2,123
    Likes Received:
    3,198
    This route ticks the right boxes for me and would potentially be a day-one purchase, but I'll hold out until I can actually install it without deleting anything else...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  42. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    The 'blame' is choosing this route in this era, knowing all well the train has tiny windows.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  43. Class156

    Class156 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2020
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    285
    Purno the size of the window should not be the decider on whether a route is created or not. There are MANY other factors.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  44. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    If we're going to decide what routes TSW gets based on how small cab windows are, then Spirit of Steam should never have been made.
    It's ridiculous how many people are upset over this, feels like people can't find anything else to complain about.
     
    • Like Like x 19
  45. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    I'm not saying it should be the only decider. But I am saying it should be one of the factors, especially if it's the only train on the route.

    Somehow the Jubilee window doesn't feel that bad. Not sure why. I have always disliked the 377 because of its small window, but after just measuring it, it's at least twice the size of the Jubilee. Perhaps it's the camera position. Perhaps it's the side window of the Jubilee cab. No clue.

    If many people are upset about this, then perhaps you shouldn't call their opinions "ridiculous".
     
  46. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    1,781
    I have been called out for criticism on similar. If we keep getting one train routes with little or no layers, being charged more and then being told to be grateful many of us won't be happy. Its not like these routes are freeware being worked on for years in someone's spare time. These are commercial products with the full commercial spin.
     
  47. Kangaroo Conductor

    Kangaroo Conductor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2022
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    589
    While I agree with you there, you have to see it from the point of view of the people excited about this EMU, excited about a scotish route, about the stations, the possibilities for Cathcart, a new modern third rail route, the elevators and PIS announcements.

    You won't please anyone all the time, and, while I agree with you, I also agree with james that the windows size is really not important compared to what people want out of this route.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  48. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    I will, actually. If people cared this much about cab views why did they stay quiet when the Jubilee and 8F have (accurately) even worse views, where you can't see around corners? This, along with the complaining about lack of layers when really none were needed make me think that people are just complaining for the sake of it.

    If the drivers of these trains in real life manage with these windows, we can too. This is a simulator after all.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  49. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    1,781
    No layers needed? all that traffic for conflicting routes at Waverley and Queen Street, all the junctions en route, empty platforms at all major stations. This makes this a one handled green light extravaganza I my eyes. Couldn't care less about the window view issue mind. It's more the ghost towns of busy railway at either end. Kicking out DLC with one train now seems to be the norm with higher prices to boot.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  50. Bradley

    Bradley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    1,364
    People forget that to get true to life layers, DTG/ rivet would have to model new trains we haven’t got, and acquire the licences for said companies, it’s not that easy to do so and takes time
     
    • Like Like x 4

Share This Page