Edinburgh-glasgow Preview Stream Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by TrainGeek08, Jan 24, 2023.

  1. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Hello everyone, I wanted to make a feedback thread regarding the preview stream, put your thoughts below regarding the stream, thanks everyone for your responses:

    My feedback watching the first half hour:

    • Sounds are on point, the brake hiss has been included when the train starts moving
    • Announcements can do, not the actual ScotRail ones but maybe Rivet couldn't get the license for the authentic ones
    • Edinburgh looks fantastic, both Waverley and the surrounding area
    • Didn't pay attention for any trams but the trams look good from the screenshots

    Feel free to put your thoughts on the route below...
     
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  2. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a nice route and train by the small but mighty team over at Rivet.
     
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  3. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    AI-generated timetable timings... again... this needs to be thrown into a garbage bin, forgotten, and never heard from again. Manually made timetables are far superior and allow for a more realistic operation, where you're not completely hammering the throttle to barely keep up with what AI did...
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
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  4. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Haven't they used platform announcements for the on-board announcements? Why on earth would an on-board announcement say "fast train approaching"!
     
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  5. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Also, the reason for not including the One O'Clock Gun was really weird. Supposedly it was performance heavy. If "play sound X at time Y" is performance heavy, there's something seriously wrong with the code. Besides, we have functional church bells, that's the same thing, and it works.
     
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  6. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Makes me think why the game itself can't just round the timings to the nearest 30 seconds for display to the player even if the AI still operate per second. It would just make it look more neat and tidy.
     
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  7. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    AI-generated timings are annoying and to an extent, aren't realistic, Rivet need a Joe at this point, but an improvement heading towards Jasper_Rivet and team, look at the feedback above regarding AI-generated timings in preparation for the next route you guys make, good effort though :)
     
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  8. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Performance heavy... I disagree with their reasoning, BML at Victoria is performance heavy, not a cannon sounding at a specific time every day, obviously I'm not a dev but care to explain in more detail for us DTG Matt or Jasper_Rivet ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
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  9. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Seems so, sounds odd how a train would say "fast train approaching" when you are on the train itself, that should only be played on platforms at stations ;)
     
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  10. aeronautic237

    aeronautic237 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what will happen if you spawn on foot (or a service) and an AI train somewhere spawns in a neutral section... red signals forever?
     
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  11. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Ridiculous. These never work. Oh well, that and the delay on PS5 means it won’t be a day one purchase (I was on a week off this week apart from working overtime tonight). If the timetable is AI only I might never buy it - no matter how good the train or scenery. That’s a red flag for me.
     
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  12. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Pianos, moths, Lifts, Office chairs & 1 train. Ballast looks off, Not sure on the sounds. Mind made up. No Way.
     
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  13. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like a challenge!
     
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  14. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with the above point. Also think the lack of several new TSW3 features such as the snow and wet platform reflections is just a big let down. Sounds seem to be again be poorly mixed and a mix of incorrect sounds reused from the 484. Also although Jasper said breaks are realistic, that cant be possible they are very underpowered. Route seems to be missing areas of fencing and eye adaption/lighting baking seems off in tunnels and in the stations. Stations look good but again lack shadows/ambient occlusion but i think this is now a tsw3 core issue. Don't see any rush hour passengers on the stream also in numbers for passenger clothes.

    For the good TMS & Announcements is the saving grace feature here. Some more work to make them automatic would of been cool but we finally seen this and hope to see this improve in the future and seeing in DTG routes. The push for new features here really makes the route stand out but I think the few let downs really impacts the hype that was built up for it.
     
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  15. flirt745

    flirt745 Active Member

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    I've enjoyed watching the stream from the start. Nice touch to have pianos on the big stations plus the fact you can explore more areas too. Looking forward to trying out the Class 385 and playing with the announcement system. I also like the chime sound before the announcement you select is played.
     
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  16. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    They need a checklist, every new feature added to it, and then check all the boxes for new releases... Imagine how confusing it would be for new players when newer content has fewer features...
     
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  17. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    What a summary... Bravo (sarcasm of course) but it seems Rivet have done a 150 to us AGAIN... I thought Rivet were on their A-game with the 484 as well :(
     
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  18. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I’m getting really fed up of one step forward two steps back. I don’t think I’m either going to bother watching the stream tomorrow. An AI based timetable is a 100% deal breaker for me. The fact that new features have once again been omitted is quite frankly pathetic.
     
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  19. allysimpson247

    allysimpson247 Member

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    In my opinion, AI timings aren't great and surely can just be rounded to the nearest minute. The 385 sounds very bad above about 5 mph as the pitch change isn't there and the running sounds are a 1 second loop, also the door open and close beeps last far too long. Visually looks very nice but combined with the PS issues and no compensation for that, not sure this is a day one purchase now.
     
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  20. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    I watched only the first half hour and it looked good at that time but it seems as new features have been shown on stream the community have become disappointed if you will with how it turned out, but I'm sure some of these bugs can be fixed with some post-release patches ;)
     
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  21. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Rivet aren’t great at patches though. So you might as well not even think about them.
     
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  22. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Even rounding to the next 30 second mark would do the trick but yeah I agree with you here ;)
     
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  23. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, but surely DTG can give Rivet a nudge though to get on with it, as this thread shows, in some aspects the community aren't impressed with the route but other aspects the route is fine like scenery around Edinburgh is a good example of the latter :)
     
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  24. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Poor sounds and extremely weak brakes for the Class 385. Disappointing but not surprising at it shows Rivets' usual weaknesses.

    I really wish Rivet and DTG would work together, so Rivet can focus on the 'nice looking features and visuals' and DTG can focus on the physics and sound side of things.
     
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  25. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    So these are not included? Ridiculous, we're asked to pay extra for TSW3 routes now and new releases are not including TSW3 features from previous releases, pfffft forget it! I know it's a Rivet route but surely they could of worked with DTG on how to do snow/wet platforms.

    Meh, just like BCC, I'll pick it up in a 60%+ sale
     
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  26. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    i think visually, for the most part the route looks great, however the sounds do sort of ruin it. The initial whine from the motors up to about 5mph is spot on and from there on it’s just completely inaccurate, no change in pitch in the motors which is impossible to miss irl but yet it’s happened here, especially being local to the trains i’d have thought it would be easy to go out and get recordings. aswell as the motor sounds, the run sounds are awful mainly as they’re on a complete loop constantly, and also the horn sounds nothing like reality, it’s a lot quieter and just generally sounds different. i’m genuinely reconsidering buying this on first day but i probably still will in a hope of a fix for these issues soon
     
  27. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    aswell as this, not sure it anyones mentioned this yet but i’m also a little annoyed about not being able to use Livery Designer with this train as i had some plans in mind, oh well i suppose
     
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  28. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    You can use livery designer with the 385...

    Matt.
     
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  29. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    oh okay whoops, i must’ve misheard on the stream then sorry about that:D
     
  30. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    I really wish Rivet and DTG would work together, so Rivet can focus on the 'nice looking features and visuals' and DTG can focus on the physics and sound side of things.[/QUOTE]

    If they worked this way they could produce some top quality products and should really be considered IMHO
     
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  31. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    I think we did pretty well with the Class 323 DLC. Sounds are 80% accurate, loco looks pretty well modelled. I just felt they could have included the Redditch stretch and we now know why DTG chose to miss it out of the preview stream.

    However, tonight proved why streams are important and gladly I won't be buying til a sale.

    It did have some good elements, the stadium, the tram, though the track colour is slightly odd? Also, entrance and exiting of tunnels was odd (similar to BCC)...

    *Personal views*
     
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  32. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    The catenary around the edinburgh waverley area is not accurate… it uses this style of cantilever and mast
    upload_2023-1-24_22-39-15.jpeg
     
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  33. michael_watson_16

    michael_watson_16 New Member

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    The sound are god awful, they did say that they were unable to get proper recordings so I'll give them a bit of a break on that. Hopefully they'll be able to get proper recordings soon and then they can update all the train sounds because as it is now, it's unbearably bad. As for the announcements, I'd rather they had just left them out rather than getting someone to really badly imitate them. And the chime, what was the need to add that? It doesn't exist in real life so why add it in the game?
     
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  34. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I pointed this out here but unsurprisingly nothing was changed.
     
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  35. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    it really ruins the edinburgh area in my opinion not to mention the track colour being too dark
     
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  36. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    We do have working church bells. If striking the hour every three minutes is considered working, which is what I have witnessed on many routes. Imagine the gun doing that. You are right that it should be easy to get a gun sound effect to play once at 1 o’clock.
    That made me laugh when I heard it, it’s as if there has been a common sense bypass at Rivet.

    Obviously I agree with everyone about automated timings not being good, especially if they’ve had the AI running at full speed when generating the timings. Nothing beats the real times and putting them in to start with is a simple data entry job surely. Then tweaks can be made if any conflicts arise when testing with AI.

    I liked quite a few things I saw on the stream but got bored and didn’t quite get to the end. I’ll watch the rest of it tomorrow. I think playing with the announcement buttons will be good fun to do when travelling on what looks like a fairly mediocre stretch of railway to drive. The view from the window, although small, looked okay to me. I’d be happy driving with that cab view I reckon.
     
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  37. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    I’ll be getting the route as once again it was a firm favourite in MSTS (I think a better era too) and TSC.

    However, the AI timings a big disappointment, Joethefish (sorry for the tag Joe) has no issue with getting the proper real life timings. Cross City, L2B, SEHS being excellent examples. Is this something that is fixable?

    What was disappointing is that on the stream it just went unchallenged, Jasper explained, and it was just a case of move on, next question. The why’s and the reasons behind it would be nice
     
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  38. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    If they worked this way they could produce some top quality products and should really be considered IMHO[/QUOTE]
    Also requires dtg's employees to get involved, but when they are working on their own content which they are most of the time, they wouldn't be able to also work on rivet's products.
     
  39. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Really unfortunate they weren’t able to add the new TSW3 snow and wet platforms. These features were marketed as general TSW3 improvements, but it now turns out it all depends on the individual route.

    Apart from that, I really enjoyed the stream. Thanks for answering many of my questions! :D
    Hope they can fix some of these pesky lighting bugs (especially in the big stations and tunnels!) and have a look at some of the stop markers again… they weren’t all in the right place as Matt remarked during the stream.

    Edit: Just had a look through the comments and was reminded of some things that confused me as well… the clearly recognizable 1 second running sound loop and too long/obnoxious door beeps (I was beginning to think the Scots just want to give their passengers a little extra heads up). The train sounds being inaccurate is obviously not good as well.

    Overall, the route looks really nice… only a few of the new TSW3 features are sadly missing, and the lighting seems a bit off in places. The train however appears to be rough around the edges, although packed with unique features at the same time. Will use the delayed PlayStation release to watch videos, read reviews and gauge wether I can afford to pay full price.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
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  40. stevenwalker1985

    stevenwalker1985 Well-Known Member

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    Sure have. Defo not needed on the train, there was others also.
     
  41. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps they were initially planning to add platform announcements as well, which is why they recorded these voice lines.
     
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  42. stevenwalker1985

    stevenwalker1985 Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts.
    The tunnel lighting was all over the place at times.
    Train sounds were ok.
    I noticed some passengers sitting sideways on there seats, not forwards at the start of the stream.
    Ai timetables i know nothing about, but if its busy then am happy with that.
    The rain and snow on platforms should be in for launch, its been in other routes for a while now. Tut tut.

    Think i may wait a bit for patches to start for it before i may get it. Dunno yet, am glad i watched the stream as its my local line, but for now its a no
     
  43. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Now that we have seen the stream, i wonder how many people are going to get it. So far i seen so many bad comment and not any good thing mention here. :|
     
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  44. Gtasandman

    Gtasandman Active Member

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    I caught the stream after work does anyone know whats going on here. the stop marker is in reverse and the ai is reversing in the station with its taillights on [​IMG]
     
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  45. zorbsie#9738

    zorbsie#9738 Well-Known Member

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    I liked what I saw of the stream. My only concern is, as a console player, its going to be hard to hit buttons on the screen for announcements. The cursor movement isn't very precise. Was hoping for an automatic option for announcements, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.
     
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  46. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    It was actually Matt reversing as he completely overshot the station.
    I did mention on the stream that the ai had tail lights on and not headlights though.
     
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  47. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Some of my thoughts of the preview which I had already mentioned in another thread:

    Have just watched the stream in full; I thought the 385 and the scenery overall looked nice, but regarding the long-term playbility of the route, I'm not sure - so my excitement levels aren't that great if I'm honest.

    Positives:

    - Let me just say that while I think there are a loft of improvements needed (especially timetable), I do congratulate the Rivet team on their longest route to date and is fantastic progression for them in TSW.
    - Having the SDO feature for trains doors implemented (and unique door closure times too) is great, now if we can get that for the Electrostars that would be awesome!
    - Having the interior of stations modelled is fantastic, and certainly gives each station their own character.
    - TMS is another great addition (perhaps the best in the route) and has set a benchmark for DTG to follow.
    - Cab cam was another interesting feature.
    - Was surprised how good the trams looked which is a bonus.

    Negatives:
    - I'm rather concerned with recent UK-based TSW 3 routes which seemed to be characterised by large, empty stations and rather lifeless routes overall. I love this route in real-life, but I think this route (like Cross City) for TSW has come way too early before any extra modern rolling stock is available. As such, I'd of rather seen a 2014-based route from Glasgow Central to anywhere which could have at least had frequent 314s from existing content, more freight opportunities etc. For future UK content, route choice needs to be made with existing rolling stock in mind, or simply avoid this continuing theme of one-loco routes :| and large, empty stations without appropriate trains.
    - The timetable looked okay (although still AI-generated times which is a shame), but with just the basic 385 services, could get quite boring very quickly with what looks like a lot of green signals overall - again, at least they could have giving us more RHTT services other than just one (why not rail tours too?). Additionally, with the departure from Waverley in timetable mode, I did not recall seeing hardly any other AI traffic - considering we've come from Rush Hour in TSW 2 with the likes of London Commuter to such in TSW 3 nowadays is a huge disappointment - also considering the amount of traffic seen in the Bremen route as a recent comparison. Again, while this comes down to route choice, I simply don't want empty routes! On this subject, why was the main concourse at Waverley completely empty of passengers?
    - I thought the '10 features in 10 minutes' seemed to overly focus on stuff which doesn't really add that much (or perhaps even necessary?) to a train sim such as elevators, moths, pianos...
    - A lack of consistency: a prime example being the GSM-R not being implemented at all functionality wise.
    - No coupling/uncoupling in timetable mode (only in scenario): seems a wasted opportunity to have none at all which is frustrating.
    - Not sure entirely, but I thought at times there were quite a few micropauses and really hope performance is better than the Bremen route on Series X.
     
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  48. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    This is another problem, despite endless feedback. AI displaying incorrect lights.
     
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  49. Gtasandman

    Gtasandman Active Member

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    i went back to rewatched and noticed i guess i looked away when it happened so i didnt notice he was reversing. i just saw the tailight on and thought the route bugged out.
     
  50. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    They did say they looked at it and compared it to real world stats and it matches the real thing...

    Trains don't stop dead on a dime you know.
     
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