Edinburgh-glasgow Preview Stream Feedback Thread

The beta testers seem to miss a lot. Aren’t they supposed to notice things like missing signs for neutral sections, poor braking performance and whatnot? Someone somewhere isn’t doing what they should be doing and the consumer is suffering.

 

Three consecutive routes, all of which I was very keen on owing remain for sale on the PSN store for various reasons. I would have bought all three in the past, but DTG/Rivet et al need to work harder for my hard earned money. I’m not buying subpar anymore - even at a discount in some cases.

 

i would’ve thought they could just go out early one morning on a quiet train and record the motor sounds but ah well, hopefully they actually will do it eventually

 

The whole stream was laughable, not a great start to the year but then again, how many times have we been here? Where is the consistency with TSW3 features?

They make it sound like there's many testers, where are they? I don't think there are at all otherwise these issues shouldn't keep popping up.

 

Some might call this heresy but the Class 800 and Class 385 have very similar motor sounds, albeit pitch changes and spool up times are different. Why is it that they couldn't just get the rights to the AP recordings, pitch shift a few things and match up the timing? Sure it still would not have been completely accurate but it would've been a lot closer and much more pleasant to hear.

 

Their Class 385 to me sounds like a mixture of their Class 150 brakes, RABe 523 and the BR Class 484 lol.

 

A quote taken out of the ScotRail driver interview article regarding the Class 385…

The units are very light on their feet compared to the DMUs and you feel this when doing brake tests.

So why are the brakes so poorly simulated in TSW 3? Jasper_Rivet even made the point during the livestream that the train is very heavy, so the brakes are only as good as simulated.

Pull the other one, it’s got bells on!!!

 

The start out of edinburgh felt more like a rollercoaster, seems we are at the point again where flange sounds dont exist. The sounds in general now are in hands of modders even before this dlc got released.

Well anyway..., usually im looking forward to every release, cant wait to try it out etc, unfortunately not for this one. Cant see the passion to get the train right. "flashback 150/2, flashback 1938 Tubestock, flashback br204". They all are visually superb, but lack the usual rivet type of immersionbraking elements. Was the 385 developed / Tested together with somebody knows the dam(n) thing? i doubt so.

Devs need to be careful to not turn TSW into a Can of Worms, also DTG with its unpolished releases lately. Currently it looks for me you guys just doing your jobs to finally see the clock at 17pm.

Dont get me wrong, there good things overall still makes tsw enjoyable for me, but for example the static bogies on the rhtt wagons was a new low, that something in your house really has to improve if you want to call this "best train sim ever" in 5 more years.

 

You can bet your bottom dollar any beta testers worth their salt will have already moaned till they’re blue in the face about the missing TSW features and placeholder sounds, but they are naturally under NDA so will not be able to confirm this publicly. Rivet will have been aware from a relatively early stage about these shortcomings, but will have already prioritized workload for their staff. All evidence suggests they do not yet have the in-house knowledge to implement some of the weather-related TSW features like the accumulation of snow and wet platforms, but it’s a shame they did not concentrate their resources on acquiring that knowledge rather than wasting them on trivial trimmings, which no-one really cares that much about.

Like a train-loving lemming that I am, I preordered so will give it a chance, it could be worth sticking it out and the community mods will surely help.

 

You saw what happened when Rivet used ap sounds for the 150 lol

 

It’s crazy how quickly the mood in the community changed due to the preview stream… but it’s completely understandable.

Rivet was showing off all these cool little features over the past few weeks and we logically assumed that would mean the basics are all there… because why would you work on “gimmicks” if even the most fundamental TSW3 features aren’t working correctly (lighting) or not implemented at all (wet platforms, snow buildup).

I was originally quite sad about the PlayStation delay, but now I’m happy because it will allow me to judge wether the route is worth the price. There genuinely needs to be an incredible patch campaign in the days/weeks after release that takes care of some essential things like the unrealistic brakes and missing TSW3 features. And hopefully the community doesn’t find additional game-breaking things like non-working services in the timetable after release.

I was a huge fan of the route and really liked the marketing campaign, but the stream really disappointed me. DTG should have stepped in like on West Cornwall Local and Horseshoe Curve to make sure a certain level of quality is reached.

That said… I’m no perfectionist. If no more problems appear, at least some of the glaring issues are fixed soon and reviews are decent, I’m probably still going to buy it. But likely not on day one because I doubt so many changes can be made in such a short amount of time (which is one of the many problems that come with scheduling preview streams less then 48 hours before release).

 

But what about the high res moths?

 

Wanted to say hello and that we're listening and taking on feedback from this thread! Thanks for all that feedback, much appreciated!

I'll dig deeper on that, might be that I understood something wrong in the heat of the battle.

Absolutely understand this one, have pinged our devs about it. This won't be in for the release, will let you know when I have any news about it.
Regarding the brakes - I've seen some mixed things now here and on the Discord. We've made them so that the brake curve we can render out from TSW matches what's there in real-life. We could technically make it stronger, no problem - but that wouldn't be realistic. Because I'm interested: Where does this comparison comes from that the brakes of the 323 are supposed to be as strong as the ones on the 385?

 

This was always going to be a day one purchase, and I’ve pre-ordered.

If things could be changed and genuine, constructive feedback taken onboard could DTG/Rivet Jasper_Rivet (sorry for the tag) are any of the following possible in a patch?

AI timetables - sorry it’s just not realistic and for me it’s a big thing, is it a gamebreaker? Well for me, almost. It just loses that realism.

Can we see proper TSW3 features included, there’s some inconsistency and it shows it this DLC, and others than have released since TSW3.

Sounds/braking, I don’t know the 385 that well at all so I can only go off the stream and what others have said. But I’d thought for a modern EMU, the braking was weak, if that’s how it is, fair enough, but it just didn’t seem right!

Apart from that, I can’t wait, I’m counting down the hours as we speak!

 

With all due respect, have you guys correctly set up Simugraph based on these real world values for the 385?

Even in the article with the ScotRail driver, he stated how light the unit felt when braking, which meant that the brakes are sharp and responsive. This is definitely not the case with your version. The fact that Matt used a Step 2 application and the train was barely slowing down, forcing him to use full application, says it all.

There's no way the 385 should have such weak brakes, as shown in the stream.

 

I'd like to also point out about this info shared here

There's a clear distinct lack of any actual IGBT transition from the traction motors, you're supposed to hear a transition I believe above 5mph and that is clearly not present in the TSW version, there are plenty of videos on Youtube out there where you can very clearly hear it happening.

Another issue is the woefully awful attempt at the internal PIS which is scaled wrong AND uses the wrong font entirely. Pic below:

 

I can see that Rivet tried hard on the E2G but the issues on physic, sound and some other minor stuff such as missing the fence and the neutral zone board was dragging the DLC into mud now.
I sincerely hope Rivet can do something like this: Comes up with a list of stuff that they can fix in short term and long term, deliver this list to player ASAP and fix them within the promised timeframe.
I totally not expecting a 24/48h hot patch like DTG dealing with the BRO release, but consider Rivet did tried to make 150 better, I do have expectation that Rivet will at some point try to fix the issues on the 385 and E2G. All we (well, I) need is a clear promise of what and when 'should' be done, even it takes 1 year it was better than nothing. (And perhaps, if possible, try push some patch ASAP to fix the minor issue such as the missing fence). Skyhook's attitude toward 187 was the way to go (and hopefully the patch actually makes it better this time)
Rivet was so close to the edge of success now, these issues are the last gap Rivet need to get over.

 

In a comment on YouTube, Jasper did say the transition from igbt to vvf or whatever the thing is called (don't know) has been put in but the current issue is that it transitions at the wrong speed. Apparently coming in a future update

 

@Rivet Games, If they do plan to make another route, they should hold it back until they find and fix all the bugs and glitches, and the problem we mention on this route before moving on to making their next project.

 

As far as I’m aware the 385 doesn’t have a stepped brake system, it’s a continuously variable input. It may not be that a 30% input relates to a step 1 brake application on other trains, it might be a higher percentage. The step indications in the HUD shouldn’t be there for braking and the brake input percentage should be a more reliable guide to how much is being applied to the brakes, as these incorrect steps shown are fudging what we are seeing.

The maximum brake force looked okay to me when Matt did full braking and fits quite well with the maximum (normal) deceleration given in the specifications you posted. It may be that the input curve is simulated wrongly or that a bigger percentage is actually required for a step 1 and 2 equivalent for more gentle braking. Absolutely impossible to tell from the stream because Matt was all over the place with his braking (he usually is). I’m not expecting for one minute that Rivet have it exactly spot on but it may not be as bad as everyone is fearing.

This train does have different brakes than anything we’ve had before in UK routes. I certainly wouldn’t expect a modern train to have a brake system where a low input is like braking an empty transit van so the setup may be different to anything we’ve experienced. Until it is in our hands or we get a comparison from a real driver of this train we can’t really say. The driver in the interview only said that the lightweight nature of the train was noticeable in brake tests and nothing about normal service braking.

I’ll reserve judgement until more concrete evidence is given or for when I can drive it myself and test the brakes out myself, which won’t be at release because I only buy very special routes at release.

 

You can't have a bug free product. There's always going to be bugs

 

Sure, but when you can spot obvious issues on your first preview stream, then the release should definitely be pushed back and those issues fixed.

Obviously you can't catch every bug in production, but most of the issues raised here were obvious from just 2 runs in the preview stream. If you can spot an issue that easily, then it should be fixed.

 

OK, thanks for the response Jasper, just chase it down and tell us what is the problem is when you can, still a great attempt of the E-G though

 

It will be interesting to find out. I finally held off pre-ordering yesterday due to the comments about the brakes, watching the stream Matt was in step 3 quite a lot.

However if what you say is correct then maybe it isn't a fault and Rivet seem quite sure they have got it right too. I shall see what transpires tonight as I know it is being streamed and see what peoples thoughts are.

 

Would like to believe this but your existing products are still riddled with bugs and problems despite promises to "look into it".

 

Can someone else try tms on the 385 on Xbox series x, it can be turned on and off but the confirmation button doesn't work so you cannot access the saloon lights, announcements etc also the last time I looked at a dictionary the word different doesn't have a g. There are no training modules either, can someone explain. These were noticed within 30 seconds, testing? Really?
Then I'm driving along, safety systems on (I know I did it twice, second time to test my theory) good news they work I had DSD alert but it's completely inaudible in cab let alone outside, the jet engine noise from the train overpowers everything.

 

For much of the stream Matt wasn't paying attention hence running through stations a lot.
I wouldn't put much stock in what Matt was doing live with regards to driving style

 

Well no I know, but even when he seemed to be less distracted he seemed to use step 3. That is why I decided to see what the likes of Dadrail make of it.

Normally I would have just bought it anyway to see for myself but I have to be careful what I am spending for the next couple of months.

Btw I do find Matts driving amusing so I hope I don't come across as critical, it can't be easy concentrating and trying to watch the chat and talk to the others about the route at the same time.

 

At least it has Moths and a piano...

 

Scenery devs and train devs likely to be different people, so I wouldn't put too much stock in this

 

I think little details like this can add something to a route and as said are likely done by different artists. They also probably help make the route appeal to those who aren't necessarily hardline railway enthusiasts or who like exploring the open "world".

 

The devs discovered an issue on xbox as well which is being investigated and fixed. Basically the wrong build got sent out

 

Unbelievable you couldn’t make this stuff up!
The bean counters are also having an effect on recruitment it would seem.

 

Why I'm I not surprised. Bremen Oldenburg and now this. That's two in a row. Will there be a third time with the next dlc? After all, third time's the charm

 

It says a lot for the state of this game when our best hopes for a half decent UK route are now resting on Skyhook...

IMHO Rivet should be told this was their last chance and their services are no longer required.

 

Well so far it looks the next closest one is the TSG route and I'd be very sad if that one went badly :/

 

It’s more like 50 in a row. I’ve never known a DLC to be released without something big being wrong with it on at least one platform. Then add to that all the broken Pres Crew updates and new features, DLC limits etc and DTG and their third party partners are heading for a century of calamitous releases, with varying levels of severity. I’m only half joking as well.

 

Perhaps they can continue work as a second party. After all the SEHS extension and cathcart circle which rivet games did second party work was pretty good

 

Possibly. And I know from WCL they are quite clever at creating interesting scenarios.

This route had the potential to be a keynote DLC for TSW but wrong era, one train and entrusted to Rivet - they blew it.

 

Rivet are good at modeling stations and trains. And without rivet, we wouldn't have any Swiss content. Arosa and luzern sursee aren't the best out there, but at least it's not just the same uk, us, german content which many people are getting tired of. Dtg and other 3rd parties in tsc have never made any swiss content and with rivet having the expertise and knowledge, they would increase variety.

 

Just tried 1 service and honestly, the issues mentioned before doesnt feel that serious for me.
The sound issue can be bypassed by closing a door on right of driver, at least it doesnt hurt my ears after that.
The brake feels weak below 50% but does work above that, it seems having a tendency of delay application though but I think I can surive with this.
Can't comment on the scenary but the route does feels nice for me overall. (Well I'm not in Canada where they pay much higher for the dlc, for the price I paid it worths)

 

Pretty impressed at first sight, was about to moan about the wind noise but as there's a work-around (shut the door to your right) then I can live with that. I saw a stream suggesting there's no station lights at night, will look into that later. The freaky way the metal bits of the dash glow at times in tunnels is weird.
Otherwise, love the functionality of the 385, nice route. Needs more rolling stock to make the journey more interesting but that's the case with a few TSW3 UK routes.

 

After watching the stream and reading all the feedback here I was tempted to cancel my pre-order. So very glad I didn't. I just completed my first run from Glasgow to Edinburgh and am loving the route. Are there problems? Of course, but it's very clear that a lot of work and care went into it - just not in the areas that some people would like.

I'm a bit puzzled by the hullaballoo over braking and AI timetables, to be honest, as I found it one of the easiest trains to drive and I was within a second or two at every stop along the way without putting much effort into it. I have no clue if they're accurate or not, but the braking is fine as is for me - notch 1 is 'minimum', notch 3 is 'maximum' ,and I love the variable nature of notch 2. I can put on a little or a lot in notch 2, to control the rate at which I come to a gentle stop.

I have to say, though, the almost comic-book glow around signals in a tunnel, compared to the barely perceptible difference between yellow and red signals outside a tunnel, is an area that can stand some improvement. And, with the bitter experience of the dreadful audio of the 38-stock still in my mind, I leave commentary about the sound of the 385 to others more qualified - but it was a fun and relaxing drive and I'm looking forward to more.

Now, Rivet - about that 38-stock and its silent run when coasting...

 

Dear Developer:

At this point in time, 5 years into the game's development, I think, as players and consumers, we have the right to expect a consistent level of quality from DTG and its partners, which we're clearly not getting. Actually the quality should be steadily improving. It's a cautionary tale that Sand Patch is still the best offering.

Many of us have put a good deal of money into the game, kept faith with the publisher, but right now we have no idea what to expect from the next release, buying it is a spin of the roulette wheel.

You have to wonder who's hand is on the tiller and do they have any kind of strategy, any sort of vision for the future.

My guess: nobody has a handle on the game's development, no-one is directing it. Which is why there is no progress, no forward movement. Good, new features come and mysteriously disappear from the next route. It's a ship adrift in the ocean.

Maybe someone needs to be brought in to take the development, beta and QA teams by the scruff of the neck and shake things up. I won't ask what happened to the new " QA Czar " who was supposedly hired to do just that a year ago.

You know I watch the launch stream and I feel like someone's trying to smooth talk me into buying a used car. Defects are laughed off, smoothed over, questions ignored. It's " happy time, drinks all around ". Oh, we'll fix that, look into that, oh, didn't notice that. Far cry from the Protagonist- Natalie era when feet were held a lot closer to the fire.

Love this game, want the best for it. Please fix whatever has gone wrong in HQ.

Thanks for your time.

 

Just completed my second run, again, no issues noted with train operations. Easy to brake, hit my marks on the spot this time and early into all stations.

 

Apart from AI timings being the biggest bugbear, the annoying running sounds that are looped over 60mph which are very irritating!

It seems a very very performance intensive route, only getting 30-40 FPS compared to my usual 60 on any other route!

The one thing I don’t have issue with is the braking, it seems very accurate from what I can tell, no issues in stopping or braking performance at all. Rivet have got this right, in my opinion!

 

I hope Rivet fix the wind noise as I have watched a stream or two and it was very audible and the workaround is only a temporary solution so far sadly

Sad to hear about the FPS performance issues, so that's another thing for Jasper_Rivet to feed back to the team

Even if the braking isn't right for some, the braking is fine for others, I haven't got the route so I have to take your word for it for now

 

The fps issues have to be related to the platform you are playing on. My pc, which is now 2 years old, is giving me above 100 fps most of the time running the route. At the two ends with all the city scape, it drops into the 80's.

Intel Core i9-9900 @ 3.60 GHz
32.0 GB installed RAM
1 TB SSD HD
4 TB drive
Video
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070
8 MB GDDR6 memory

 

It takes some getting used too, but I guess it actually forces you to drive properly, opposed to the more agressive driving on other routes, I play with yrds set, and I usually don't start applying brakes until 900yrds, which is one hell of a stop.
On this, I start applying brakes about 1.5 miles out, and it is a much nicer approach. The AI timetable, despite all the protest, gives you ample time. I have only arrived late once or twice out of 4 runs, and that was because I was overapplying the brakes.