Tsw's Future: Should It Forget About The Past?

It makes you wonder what the catalogue of UK based DLC will look like in a few years! Maybe steam will get sidelined and TSW will be basically a one trick pony for enthusiasts of UK railways.

 

That's a good thought. What will the future look like ?

We will definitely see more countries. I can definitey see Rivet do another swiss or a new austrian route after E2G (you heard it here first!). And Union Workshop will give us eastern content.

In terms of diversity, there will be for sure some new options !

But, for vintage content I see dark.

 

I love the br days! I think the main problem is the variety of rolling stock from the br era. Nowadays its mainly one type of unit running a line whereas back then you would find half a dozen or more different trains running on one route. Dtg don't have time for this.

 

They have already done mk1s, 47s Mk2s 45s, 40s, 31s, 20s 101s, 52 etc.



Despite all this stock waiting to fill a route they really just don't want to to release this stuff. Either sales are that bad or something else.

We need the tools to this sim now or some of us will be without anything new ever again at this rate.

 

They have several BR trains which were widespread and would cover many routes, the class 31, 37 and 47 in particular and of course we know the class 101 is suitable for the majority of locations.

They don't have to model all trains anyway, as long as enough to run a basic service was there, i.e. a class 47 and 101 for many routes with one new train modelled.

 

Well yes I was thinking more of UK content in particular.

I have been driving my German routes quite a bit lately so I see the value in more diversity of countries. However all the German routes are set in the recent past and now it looks like after a promising start the UK content will go the same way.

But I fear you are right one handled multiple units look like being the dominant feature of the sim.

 

"That bad"

Whenever I hear DTG say that BR blue stuff sells bad, I remember back in the days when Diesel Legends came around, that this was so successful (in their own words) that we since then got around three packs like that, with a steam one in the works. Something doesn't add up there.

 

That is a good point. And that seems to be popular, maybe I should buy it to add another one to the sales figures! They say BR doesn't sell but there seems to be a lot of love on here, at least, for TVL and it isn't all the same people.

 

The diesel legends pack got a lot of stick at the time, but only because the route/time period was inappropriate. I would gladly welcome more BR blue packs in this vein if it gave us more variety and potential layers.

 

I don’t disagree with what you’ve been saying, overall DTG’s logic here is wrong (at least going off what we actually know), however the TSC routes set in that era are usually just older stock but set on a modern route. Basically the DLGW situation. Personally I don’t find that too great, but in the case of the Huddersfield line, the stock was modern enough to get away with it (BR large logo, 158 & 142).

If DTG were to start adding BR stock onto routes set in the 2000’s I don’t think BR fans would be too happy, but you see a lot of DTG TSC DLC take that approach.

 

It would be better than nothing though. I run the AP class 86 and 87's on WCMLS, it is set in the post Pendolino period but once you populate the route with period trains you don't notice. There isn't that much choice as TSC also has a lack of BR period routes yet loads of BR period stock.

I gave DTG stick for the diesel legends pack, mainly due to the class 101 being incorrect for the route at that period, I didn't mind the concept. Maybe my chickens are coming home to roost!

 

Personally I'd love to see more BR era diesels and some electrics.
I'm not really a fan of these modern trains but I do play with them on TSW and TSC.
Class 158s are the ones I mainly know because I travelled on them many times (although this was after privatisation) as I was too young to travel by train on my own and family didn't use trains.

I do love seeing 37s, 47s, 57s and other older stock in person and on railway cameras for railtours etc. You can't beat the thrash and sound from an older diesel loco.
I play TVL more than NTP and that's purely because it's mostly flat but NTP is one of my local lines and even though I never travelled it in the 80s/90s, it is very familiar to me and has the old loco stock to play with which I enjoy.

As for TSC and Huddersfield line, it's set in the modern period with various places modelled for the TP upgrades but set with BR stock. I suspect this was partly due to licencing and partly because one of the trains that runs the modern route is made by a 3rd party and not available on Steam (ATS/Imbue class 185).

Personally I don't think TSW or TSC should forget about classic era stuff. There's lots of nostalgia around for classic units and don't forget, a lot of those units are what made our railways.

 

It "feels" wrong, that's true, but, having a BR Blue Class 52 racing down the mainline is just to much fun. And despite the visual compromise of modern routeold stock, the timetable is big and busy enough to feel good.

Maybe, just maybe, we'll get an expansion one day that dates a route back. London Commuter, but in the 90s or so.
Or maybe, just maybe, if we are lucky enough, Rivet or another Third Party might extend the already existing TVL or NTP and bring it up to date.

It doesn't has to be, they still exist after all. So they have to do business right to some degree !

 

Yeah, I think one thing I’d like to see more is the addition of loco DLC’s with livery packs, at least then we have some options & scope.

For me the issue isn’t running old stock on modern routes, it’s running old stock that doesn’t have the correct equipment installed - take the class 158 for example, with the AP packs you can choose which era the 158 comes from which in turn dictates the equipment it has, very handy for the Huddersfield line depending on what your service plans are.

 

Something like Chester to Llandudno in 2000 would be pretty universal in appeal, 37s, 175s ,150s, 156s, 101s, HSTs, 47s freight etc even the 66 worked along here. Is the only thing that sells what you can see down your local station right now?

 

Yes would be very happy with a route like that.

And precisely, the sim can be as much a time machine as a representation of todays operations.

I can certianly believe a modern route is more profitable but I find it hard to believe that a backdated route is non profitable.

Also, if DTG won't produce routes where they can't get licences for the branding, that could result in many routes potentially never appearing in the sim.

 

I'm already quite bored of all that though. I would like a new route with new stock. All this can sub in yeah but some new emu's and demu's. There's several different variants of the 101 also. Even electric locomotives lived in the br blue days.
Liverpool to crewe springs to mind, set a few years later it could have been one of the busiest routes to come to tsw.

 

Personally I would prefer more modern trains (modern plastic rubbish as some have said) over older routes (or as I like to call it, routes with old clunky, heap of junk trains that rightfully belong in a scrapyard)

All train joking insults aside, I do believe that DTG should perhaps try to cater to those that like BR blue or older train routes. I do enjoy NTP when I play it, but it's just not a route I would've gotten if it didn't come with tsw2020. We all have are preferences, but the key would be to try to cater to all sides.

However looking at it from a business perspective, I could understand DTG argument. BR blue routes, or any historic route for that matter would take significantly more time and probably more money to make then a route set in modern times. If all those resources goes to a route that most players aren't buying, then they aren't getting that return on investment and would be pointless from a business point of view to continue selling.

Companies won't tend to continue to sell a product that isn't selling or isn't profitable. Just because there may be diehards that would love to a certain product, it may not be worth the company to make a product if most aren't buying.

I still do think dtg should try to cater to those who like older routes though but I can understand why it not be profitable. Although that doesn't mean DTG wont ever make one in the future. You never know what the future holds

 

A lot of the older stuff is relevant to today's scene. RHTT is not just 66s, 37s and 56s feature as well as various other types over the years. What people want not just retro routes but some variety and the older traction can give that. The latest Scottish offering is the latest in the one train and 66 products list. Sprinters are still holding the Fort on many lines. Alternatively on others some units that I would barely class as run in are scrapped such as 334s. I think us UK fans look at the German layering and get quite frustrated at seeing the variety. Kassel is great around midnight for train watching. Try doing that at Waverley or New Street.

 

Was there a time stamp for that? I don't recall hearing that on the stream?

 

If I'm honest, I completely prefer modern content as I can relate to this. BR diesels on the other hand are before my time and thus I don't find them that interesting; I see some criticism on the forums that a lot of modern EMUs are similiar, but what about BR diesels? Once you've got a couple BR Blue diesels for example, will having any more such locos bring any actual further variety?

However, despite my love for modern content, recent modern UK routes on TSW in my opinion have been a major let down: one-loco routes, empty stations and lack of timetable variety and long-term gameplay. Thus, if this is the future trend for modern UK routes in TSW then this is a major disappointment to me and, apart from previous, brilliant UK routes like London Commuter, ECW, SEHS Extended, Bakerloo etc, my main interest will remain with German content on TSW because it is a million miles better compared with current modern UK routes like Cross City, Edinburgh-Glasgow etc.

Thus, what I conclude from the above, is I'd actually be in favour to see what an older BR route would look like if it utilised all the existing, older UK content with the plethora of different rolling stock to create an epic, varied timetable and, most-importantly, offers long-term gameplay. As I said earlier, the current trend of modern, one-loco UK routes can't continue as is, so I'd be happy to see BR return as a comparison regarding timetables etc.

 

Do you have a timestamp or similar for that? Those would be grave news, indeed, for vintage routes overall. After all, the UK is the only country that really got vintage content (apart from 1 route for the US).

 

I am sure I have heard in the past Matt waxing lyrical about BR routes and traction, I might be wrong however.

I am sure if they feel that there is actually interest in more historic routes they might change their mind.

It isn't as if I personally would expect them regularly but once ever couple of years would be nice.

 

As for the German content, Germany's railways are pretty much nationalized with Deutsche Bahn. Hence most of the trains that run on one part of the network will most likely run on another part. The U.K's railways are privatized by private companies and will therefore run a magnitude of different trains. Unless you want to see another southern uk 3rd rail route with eletrostars (we all know how much people love those) there isn't going to be much opportunity to layer British trains on other routes outside the southeast of England unless new trains are made. DTG seem to love making one train routes nowadays

 

The UK's TSW content seems extremely repetitive and has so for some while now. Basically one modern(ish) electric EMU per route is all we seem to be getting these days. Even for me as a modern fan, this is getting boring now.

We barely have any modern(ish) DMUs for the game. Where is the popular and widely seen Classes 158, 170 and Voyagers? We have ZERO electric locos too.

We really need to have a bit more variety in TSW.

 

Hear, hear, I could handle the lack of BR routes a lot more if we had more variety to the more modern routes. Hopefully the Skyhook route will offer some much needed relief!

 

Without trawling through the video no, but it was somewhere around 50-60%-ish of the way through. To paraphase his response to requests for BR blue, it was in the vein of "I also love BR blue but more people prefer modern stuff so we're sticking with that".

 

i would love to see a BR ECML Electrics era w the 91+mk4, valentas , 365s and PEPs in tsw 3 or a wcml OS with loco hauled 86,87s and the APT. any apt route would have my money in train sim world. APTs are absolutely legendary trains or the IC Executive HSTS on the intercity western/ XC lines set in the 80s/90s that would be a big selling point

 

So that not only rules out BR diesels/electrics, it also rules out steam as well! It also rules out much of the early privitisation period too!

Still if they can turn out half baked, buggy routes with one EMU then why put any more effort in than that!

 

It would be interesting to know what criteria DTG are using to arrive at the view BR Blue routes are not popular. If they're basing it on AP and route/traction level accumulation via Dovetail Live then as I've remarked elsewhere the system is incredibly flawed where you can pick up maybe 15k or even 20k points on a 40 minute BML or Bakerloo commuter run, but a freight scenario on TVL or an express on NTP because it only has a handful of objective points might be lucky to give you 4k or 5k.

No one is suggesting every new UK route should be set in the past, i.e, 1970's or 1980's but come on DTG, there is a chance to create a bit of history here. Please don't tell me that a Deltic or Class 50 or Class 56 properly done and on a route with some decent scenery and or operational interest wouldn't sell like hot cakes.

A few routes that could span different eras have already been mentioned in the thread so why not do a dual timetable diesel route (as was done to rescue WCL) with modern stock such as the Basils on Wherry Lines to appease the modern aficionados their fix. Then give us "hellfire" mob our summer Saturday with 20's, 31's, 37's, 40's heck even a Duff on the Yarmouth (or Skeggie) run. Apart from a few more Mark Ones for variety it's not as if the traction and stock aren't already in the game and no licensing issues to boot.

Really tempted to ping Matt on this, if he's not already aware of this thread.

 

To illustrate my point above, I just did a freight run on TVL with the 31'a, about 35 - 40 mins. I got just over 4K points on completion, barely moved the levels.

Now whoever created the 31's (and the 20's, and the 40's) IMHO did a bang up job. Fully captured the essence of these machines, sound and physics especially with the slow ponderous build up of power and exhaust noise. I remember travelling behind these locos on Birmingham to Norwich a couple of times (after they displaced the Class 104 and Class 120 DMU's) and Bristol to Portsmouth a couple of times. It's really a crying shame that TSW doesn't have a route to do them justice. TVL is too short and on the freight or hauling a DMU around there is just no scope to get them up to speed, which the real things did manage (eventually!).

 

Go light loco, you can thrash the f'n knackers out of them.

 

I may see if I can find a passenger consist to go Off The Rails on SoS.
But it's really crying out for something like Birmingham to Peterborough or Peterborough to Cambridge/Norwich where you can get a nice long run. See DTG, you don't even have to make the trains, just needs a suitable route.

I do actually begin to wonder whether the talent that brought us these fine locos to TSW (and routes like TVL and NTP) have walked away from DTG, which is now the real reason why we get what we get and outfits like Rivet are entrusted with projects like Glasgow to Edinburgh, i.e. no one is left with the knowledge or willingness to make period routes or the classic traction to go on them.

 

I think the problem with the existing BR blue routes was the timing. Correct me if I'm forgetting something off the top of my head, but the release order for British routes was:
GWE - WSR - NTP - TVL

One modern, one heritage, two historic routes. So the players complained so much we are now getting only current-era routes. To the point of people getting sick of them (southern third-rail, anyone?) and want something else. With Birmingham and Edinburgh, I guess now it's going to be an era of overhead wires.

I think TSW needs more variety between releases. Not back-to-back routes with the same style.

 

Yes mate variety is key.