Dtg's "policy" On Only Modern Content

If comments by the executive producer are interpreted correctly then we will only be seeing "modern" content from DTG for TSW and looking at the other third party providers they aren't going to have a much different policy.

This means no more steam, so what was the point of SOS? It can hardly be considered finished!

No more classic diesels, electric loco's or multiple units, presumably even the early days of VIrgin or Great Western are ruled out.

What happens if TOC's start being awkward regarding licences?

I understand that period routes don't necessarily sell as well but I find it hard to believe they actually make anything like a loss. Surely it wouldn't hurt to release a backdated route every so often. It seems to me to be a very narrow minded approach which might end up driving away quite a few players.

It would be nice if someone from DTG would clarify that this is now the policy and that we should expect no more routes set in before the turn of this millennium for example.

 

For steam, sos isn't really in the best state and manual firing isn't a thing so it might be why dtg are holding back. For german and us content, I would at least expect a locomotive to be made. Given how long steam takes to make, probably will be infrequent. Dtg haven't really said no to steam content. But regarding br blue, dtg have explicitly said it's not popular.

 

As stated in the stream it’s revealed that modern content prove more popular than other era, I wouldn’t interpret this as confirmation of no pre modern era content, as anything like a 60-40 majority or 70-30 still leaves a relatively high demand. Thus I would expect more modern but still pre modern content just not to as a high of an extent. Not to mention that 100% modern wouldn’t satisfy the majority forever, as continued similarities would drive the demand down and increase demand for difference

just some thoughts of mine on the matter

 

I’m getting a bit fed up of postage stamp sized views and easy go stop operations. Give me brakes that squeal but don’t do anything for half a mile, get me figuring out how to feel the gradient through the throttle notch I need and still keep things smooth for the passenger. Give me raw power that’s not been tamed by on board computers but through the genius of engineering experience. That’s a real work out of a simulation. And it’s found only in the older stuff with the exception of US freight.

I’ve actually decided my collection of routes isn’t growing further until I know I’m going to be pushed harder by the experience to drive right. It’s just such a shame the older routes have their funny quibbles and issues with signalling and the like because otherwise I probably wouldn’t need to look out for more content.

 

Well I am only going on what has been interpreted by comments from the "horses mouth" so to speak. I expect the majority of routes to be modern period, however if that is all we are going to get then to be honest then I don't know how much money I really want to spend on TSW. A spread of different experiences would be nice to achieve.

 

IMO I agree with the trend of modern trains are most desired.
Despite I like all of kind of trains, I prefer modern ones. Due to its design, speed, technology and other features.
Please notice this is a result of - fortunately! - trains are coming back due to road traffic issues, but also new technologies.
They are also fast, comfortable, reliable.
Even they are changing from locomotive + passenger cars to EMUs and DMUs. and several new high speed ones.
Of course I am talking about passenger ones.
I like freights too.
But on both cases, I prefer modern ones.

 

The majority of routes being modern is ok, but every once in a while it would still be nice to see more historic routes. Northern-Trans Pennine and Tees Valley did not appeal to me much at first, but they grew on me the more I played them. It would probably help if the historic UK routes had better timetables.

 

The apparent intention only to make modern routes is a big step backwards which will see many - including me - seek alternatives to TSW. It's not just the fact that I'm not personally interested in modern multiple units. It's the fact that the fragmented nature of the modern UK railway means that a route being set in modern times pretty much guarantees it will be one train only (apart from the odd 'railtour' or RHTT), with empty stations and no variety possible. I note that even fans of modern units are starting to say that some variety is needed and sales will begin to reflect that.

DTG have confirmed that Diesel Legends sold well, even though it was just some BR blue diesels put onto a modern route. Imagine what the sales would be like if they actually produced a suitable route for that kind of traction. No doubt sales of Northern Transpennine and Tees Valley were lower than sales of the most recent routes, but the overall quality of the game and the player base has increased significantly in that time, so it's not a sensible comparison.

My main frustration, though, is that it's perfectly possible to combine traditional and modern traction on one route by setting it in a transition era. This gives the best of both worlds, and everyone can enjoy both the older and the more modern traction, on the same route.

 

I have the feeling DTG isn't reaching the 40+ years, (model)train fan audience...I am 100% sure that the percentages would change to a more 50/50. DTG appears to be more catering to a younger, maybe even more simulator fan based audience.

 

What about BR intercity, that’s relatively modern and it caters somewhat to both types, set it when the 90s and 91s first entered service or something. I would love a Intercity Great Western or Intercity East Coast

 

Hi Matt - thanks for the response to this topic. Just for clarification, what do you mean by 'what's being asked for'? Do you mean suggestions on the forum, the kinds of routes people are playing, the sales, the survey responses or a combination thereof?

Just trying to get my head around the route selection process a bit more.

Cheers

 

As being discussed in the other thread, most of the locomotives and stock already exist, with the exception of a Type 2 Sulzer, Class 50, 55, 56 and maybe a 60. Just need a decent route to run them on.

 

I think that DTG perhaps cater too heavily to those who already own TSW instead of trying to diversify its output to reach those who like trains but don't own TSW. Its probably a safe short term strategy but will see diminishing returns and won't do them any favours in the long-term as people will get bored and become more selective over what DLC they buy.

 

Thanks for the reply Matt, on what I know is a busy day.

That has made me feel a happier to have some clarification and to hear nothing is ruled out.

Maybe us fans of the BR period need to make a bit more noise about it and drum up some interest.

 

I think we could hardly make more noise! Half the threads on the forum seem to be full of people puzzling over why only modern UK routes are being made, with even those who normally prefer modern traction calling for some older routes for variety. When Matt says “the vast majority of what’s being asked for is modern” I’m not sure what he’s referring to, but it certainly doesn’t seem to be true of this forum. I hardly see anybody calling for yet more modern EMUs.

Never mind, like you say, all we can do is keeping making positive suggestions and hope they’re heard.

 

Hi Matt,
Out of interest where does the data which tells you what people do or don't want come from as the last BR diesel route you released was TVL and I would imagine the player base has expanded a lot since TSW 2020. The only reason I say this is because there does seem to be quite a few people on these forums who would be interested in a BR diesel route. As said above would us making a bit more noise on here help our case?

A BR blue route every couple of years would probably keep most (well definitely me) happy.

It is good to hear that BR blue hasn't been totally swept under the rug though and the optimist in me is hopeful that you can transpire the quality of BCC into a BR Blue dlc in 2023. OK maybe a bit too optimistic but would be nice nonetheless!

Would baking a cake for and saying pretty please to whoever reviews your proposals help as I would happily volunteer to do the baking!!!

 

Well yes that is true there are lots of people calling for older routes which is why it is confusing when they apparently aren't popular.

But yes, I really mean keep making suggestions. I shall try and make some myself.

 

I hardly think Matt was saying that DTG would never do another older UK route ever again.I think he was just pointing out that modern stuff is the more requested DLC content at the moment.
Let's try not to be so reactionary and actually listen to what he said and think about it before typing.

 

Yes I may magic up a couple too if it will help.

 

I'm an old(er) man and used to be a die hard 50 basher but I have to admit I stray towards the modern stuff on TSW.The modern day stuff has so many more features to mess about with in my opinion

 

I still wish DTG would give another US retro route a shot, something end of the transition Era to the late 70s.

Give us high hood diesels.
Give us Passenger trains before Amtrak.
Give us GE U-Boats
Give us some EMD spartan cabs that aren't a SD40-2 or GP38-2.
Give us some Baldwins or ALCOs
Give us the colors of some fallen flags that don't exist anymore.

And if you do indeed do it, do NOT incorporate it like the ATSF F7 please....

 

here's hoping that the mentioned tsc update comes through then. This looks like the end of tsw for me.

 

I've already been fed up with the modern types for some time now, no matter which country the route is from. I myself not only do enjoy driving the early eras of diesels (non-DMUs) for both UK and US like TVL and CRR, but also the age of steam like SoS. And not something inaccurate like the Santa Fe F7 or CSX SD40 (does not matter if people likes it or not) to place them on. That is what I do hope to see for TSW for some time now.

But these days, one way or another, there will be more favors of wanting more modern routes than the classic historics that really makes driving a challenge, different kinds of scenery to take in, and the variety of the locos to make out of it. Doesn't matter if it's from the community perspective or from the so-call "sales" that people think is where DTG numbers are at.

Would love to see this problem change for the better, but it's clear this will not go away anytime soon (unless proven wrong one day).

 

Agree wholeheartedly.

Reading between the lines and based on what we've actually seen, my impression is that DTG itself is unlikely to produce an older US route and loco in the foreseeable future. It's been almost 2 years since Clinchfield and I see nothing on the horizon.

Third parties are a different matter and therein lies some possibilities, since they seem less tied to popular demand and more likely to do what interests them.

I think a great opportunity was missed with Horseshoe Curve, though the route turned out to be pretty good.

I would actually go back further. I would like to see an FT running on a genuine 1940's/50's ATSF route, but that might be a bit pie in the sky. I could see it on TSC, but unlikely on TSW.

 

Hm, im am 46, I am not from UK, i have never heard of BR eras before coming here, i have never tried a train sim before TSW...
Still after playing a litlle with all content i continue to come back for good old smelling and roaring diesels from past. I evzn swithed to TSC to have more routes !
Those locos have personallity, they are not easy to drive, they have potentiel for good simulation... TVL and NTP are great routes. We need more of this, DTG !!! MOAR !

 

I like the BR blue era too, looking forward to the HST in that livery, hopefully one day with the correct exterior modelling for the period and appropriate engine. I also echo the locos mentioned like the 50/56/60. It would be nice if perhaps we had a good stretch of the WCML and ECML to play with and it was available in different eras. Then people would have a playground for whichever stock they preferred.

 

It's news like this that makes me realise tsw has been a expensive mistake and the only thing on dtg's agenda is money! This game as so much potential but all I see route after route is that potential wasted on tight money grabbing schedules that usually see routes released unfinished.

Enough is enough, I'm done with tsw and dtg. Never gonna get another penny from my wallet.

 

Modern UK stuff wouldn't be that bad if it'd be a bit more different. You know... intercity trains, freight trains, some more diesel traction, loco hauled passenger trains, etc.

But personally, I quite like the BR Blue era stuff. But what about some BR Green era stuff? Would love to take my Class 33 out on something a little faster than WSR...

 

We do need some BR Green content added to TSW. If they built up a decent enough number of BR Green Diesels, they'd be able to do a route during the crossover period between steam/diesel traction. Heavily weathered, rusty and poorly maintained steamers running alongside new BR diesel traction, BR Green with no yellow panels. This is one of my dream route eras, I really hope we get one someday.

 

So no 50, 55, 56, 86, 87 etc incoming. I feel a personal boycott coming on.

 

It's a fair point, Matt. The only thing I would say is it's probably more difficult for people to be overly-demanding if you make a route set in the past, because - just as it's not easy for you to get the source material - people don't have the same level of detailed information to declare that you're wrong! When I think about Northern Transpennine and Tees Valley releases, I can't remember anything like the same nit-picking on tiny details that we see for modern routes - because people just don't have that level of detailed information. They don't have recent personal experience, and even photos of the time are more scarce and usually lower quality so you can't necessarily spot a miniscule missing cable from the pantograph (or whatever...)

I'd also say that you'd save yourself a huge amount of work because you already have an impressive roster of BR blue diesels, so you wouldn't even need to create a new loco unless you particularly wanted to. You could make a route with 5 or more different trains in it just using what you've got.

Either BR blue or BR green would be great, but I must admit I'd be tempted to go for blue, just because you've got so much there already and lack of source material would be less of an issue than going further into history.

 

While that's true, there is also the prospect of reskins; some like the disc-front Class 40 would only require new paint; others like the 31 would require a tad more work but not a lot.

 

BR Green also gives scope for the crossover from steam traction, something like Weardale albeit probably not on the same scope as Derek's masterpiece. And without moving into Suggestions territory, the Port Road was another good example of a route set in that era. The advantage being that most of the research groundwork already exists within TSC, even if the assets have to be recreated from scratch. In fact for a decent length historical route with two new locos (e.g. for Port Road a Class 26/27 and a Black Five) that would be a Day 1 purchase for me even at £40. Loads of scope for follow up DLC, too.

 

Wouldn't Gary Dolzall be able to help with that?

 

I personally don’t understand the desire for modern content, especially UK wise. Modern EMU/DMUs generally have no character, locos are far more interesting. Don’t get me wrong I do like modern routes and the 323 is one of my favourite trains yet in TSW and I love them IRL, but I’d still take a 37 on MK2s any day

 

That is unfortunate for future content it seems then, as aside from the modern locos already in game, we are pretty much left with Amtrak and the handful of commuter railroads that are currently available (as well as NJT I'm assuming). Doesn't seems like content wise the future of US DLC will be varied and passenger stuff will be Northeastern stuff.

At least I still have TSC and 2 upcoming routes to look forward to. (Mileposts Narrow Gauge RGS route, and GTrax's Boston and Albany route in the NYC era.)

 

I just love the old eras. I purchased TSW3 just for SoS, Sadly I was put off by the amount of bugs in it.
The first addon I purchased was a choice between Tees Valley and Northern Trans Pennine. Tees Valley won due to a great discount on it.
This was because of the BR loco's that come with the addons' Tees Valley a 37 and the option of taking control of a double header. The 08, and the 101. I also purchased the Class 20 addon, When I receive my UC payment next month I will be getting the BR 31 addon, also the Northern Trans Pennines, and if I can afford it, the Heavy freight pack.
I just love these old and outdated machines. The sound of a pair of 37's pulling a full load of wagons loaded up to the brim with coal was amazing! I lived 2 mile away from what was once the Graverly Hill power station in Nechells, Birmingham was a incredible sound.
There is something so nostalgic about the old BR Blue or grey loco's Just like the Steam of its time. They are a part of our countries Industrial Heritage, It would be such a shame If this part of our Railway history is swept under the carpet. These modern loco's admittedly look great, especially with all of their fancy gizmo's to make it run and drivable.
But unlike our 37's, 101's and 08's they will never become a classic. No one will talk about how they sounded, how they looked. When the new batch arrive not a single commuter will even notice that the train taking them to their destination is different? I would truly love to see more of the 70's and 80's BR routes.
DTG Don't do a Beecham by putting a Axe to our Industries Railway Heritage!

 

That's unfortunate to hear I understand that it's hard to come over to the US to get sounds reaching out to the community for help will make things easier for you lot hopefully that does happen

 

That gives me some hope, at least. I would hardly call BRO vintage, but n-Wagen and the Br 110 are certainly a step in the right direction. Let's start turning the clocks back a decade or two more at least and we can get to the really interesting stuff

 

Somehow, I knew that the US side of content feels like at the bottom of the barrel lately. But I did not expect it to be that bad of a problem if this is the case moving forward. A shame for how this will turn out in the long run.

 

It doesn't bode well for US stuff, then. I wonder how Run 8 get around the issues?

 

So... how about some German steam traction then?

 

How did you guys solve this issue for Train Simulator Classic? It has a notably larger collection of US trains, from different eras and operators. I know TSW trains are more detailled than the TSC ones, but even TSC needs some reference material being collected, isn't it?

And, what about Amtrak? I'm not an expert on US train operators, but doesn't Amtrak run nation-wide? I know you did some streams together with Amtrak a while ago, so I expected there is some good co-operation between DTG and Amtrak, or do I misunderstand things here?

 

Amtrak was probably open to dtg including then in the simulator. They have really good working relations. They even worked with dtg to advertise tsw2 on one of their locomotives. Other than the nec, amtrak does long distance which doesn't really add much to the game since it's very few services compared to regular commuter routes.

 

There's also a fair amount of Canadian stuff in TSC including CP which hasn't reflected across to TSW. How I would love to see Kicking Horse Pass etc. in 1986 when VIA still ran the Canadian (No1 & No2) that way, powered by F units together with all the CP freight and those spine tingling unique locomotive chime horns.

 

But these long-distance Amtrak services could be added as layer over several freight routes, couldn't they? Or do they use unique rolling stock for each route they run on?

I'm kind of looking for an opportunity to offer more flexibility for loco & route layering & substitution. So I was hoping there'd be a specific type of Amtrak rolling stock that could be layered in on a large number of US (freight) routes.

 

I know there's several different coaches dtg would have to model and the appropriate locos. Don't know much about what the different passenger cars are. There isn't much gameplay wise so I think what dtg should do is to make the locomotive a primary loco of a route where it regularly runs and dtg could release it as an enhancement pack with the different passenger car variants to the appropriate freight routes so it's better value for money since there's very few services that run on the freight routes in game

 

A lot of the TSC US content was and is made by third-party devs, even the stuff labelled on Steam as being made by DTG.