Geml - London To Norwich Workshop Route

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by andy.malcolm, Feb 4, 2021.

  1. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    So this is a different one than the one that was on the Steam Workshop until sometime last year or so? My mistake, then, if so. The removal of it suggested something was happening to make it payware.
     
  2. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    What actually happened to Traction depot then and why did the workshop route get removed?
     
  3. atomicdanny

    atomicdanny Staff Member

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    Sadly the only person that would know would be Traction Depot, but he seems to have disappeared.
     
  4. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    It might appear so. It's a shame really as that route was actually quite decent.
     
  5. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but.... once all the faffing is done installing said requirements that is it done once, which also means that if owt else comes out you have probably got all the requirements.
     
  6. CrankyBot

    CrankyBot Member

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    Was poking around and saw this and since I'm the author I'll happily answer these even though I'm about 2 years late!
    Whilst yes I can understand many people's discontent (I'll call it) at a large quantity of requirements, I'm someone who tries to cater for realism, it's something I love doing and it's something that many experienced members of a train sim community love having. I've had TS since 2012 so my collection of addons have exponentially grown since then, and once again, so have many others. What people tend to have is similar collections, as a newcomer to the game it's going to be daunting I have extremely no doubts it would but what I don't entirely appreciate is people trying to see my work as off-putting, not my intentions, no one is forcing you to download these, I've taken my free time & will to make these for people to work towards or enjoy working towards these scenarios which are all entirely free by the way.

    I'm also going to point out two extra things,
    Firstly, each scenario is divided up into these requirements, not every single scenario in the pack is going to have these requirements and each scenario is detailed in what requirements are needed for the scenario to run, not entirely so much you need to go on a shopping list spree and bag em all in sales and not, but just enough to ensure the scenario doesn't run into errors and whatnot cause I have no idea what the scenarios would be like without them, I put them all there after all. I also want to point all upon downloading it, the .pdf (most of my items have .pdfs I still go through the old ones that will eventually be revamped out of .txt files into .pdf) readme included will always 9.9/10 times point you in the right direction to find the items required, the only time it doesn't is when the file is discontinued for public usage (which it will be stated on there either originally or through a revamp).

    Secondly,
    We are exponentially far along in the TS Timeline that a fair amount of people have the addons required to run this scenario pack or to a great extent that it runs without problems. Whilst I wish I could show the numbers to prove this statement, my download statistics for the work I've done in the fair-few years in the past are severely inaccurate at the moment.

    Train Simulator is by no means any cheap hobby, whilst I wish I could cater for the newcomers, I couldn't cater it to myself or the fair now-larger ratio quantity of those who share similar views to me. I appreciate the fact it won't be for everyone, but I don't like being put on blast for something I enjoy doing.

    Many thanks,
    CB.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2022
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  7. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    It's good to use all the assets we've collected.

    Thanks for contributing to the community :)
     
  8. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Well said!!

    It seems your dammed if you do and dammed if you dont. People complain they want realism they get it and still complain. It is pretty bad when freeware developers who dedicate there time and effort into providing content for FREE for us to all enjoy still get criticised for there work. The train sim community really is strange at times.
     
  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It's a dilemma. Taking a break from Trainz to try something in the TSC editor (see my sig but replace TSW with TSC and add very freelanced), I already have about half a dozen routes ticked to generate a decent list of assets and I still need to find one that provides a decent truss girder bridge loft for Somerset Bridge and that will probably have to come from an American route.

    Edit: Also we don't have a central official DTG Download repository for freeware assets like Trainz DLS. Freeware stuff is scattered across the web on sites that could be there today and gone tomorrow, even UKTS. If you want to share stuff on the Workshop you can only use assets from built in or Steam DLC, can't even add your own stuff like station signs* etc. in from 3D Canvas/Crafter or Blender.

    * What happened to the plan to give us a pack of renameable station signs, aimed at route builders?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
  10. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    This is totally what we need. Get the VP grass and trees on Steam as freeware, or even in the core package. That makes them available for EVERYONE. Workshop use, too!
     
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  11. KTL_Rob Powell

    KTL_Rob Powell Well-Known Member

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    Slight snag with that, i believe that technically the VP grass and trees are already available in the JT common library as if I am not mistaken, they have a license to use them... (though I believe they are listed as JT assets) (I am sure I'll be corrected if I am wrong!)
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
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  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Hey thanks for the heads up about the JT Common Library. Some good stuff in there which I presume is okay to reference in a freeware project. I assume it comes with any JT route, in my case Kyle and the Met Line are the ones from Steam?
     
  13. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Look in the JustTrains folder for a CommonLibrary folder, and an AP file in there. The same folder is used in direct JT routes but the files are unpacked. I know I suggested an AP file setup previously for Steam purchases, and also makes that AP file work with all routes even from JT directly, so this would suffice as a requirement for freeware routes using the CommonLibrary even if one uninstalls the route. It is a separate Steam package.
     
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  14. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    what difference does it make if they are on steam or on the Vulcan website. It will make zero difference. All you do is download a very small file from Vulcan. Hell they even go to the. Other of putting it in a .exe format so all you do is click that 5 seconds later it’s installed. The file structure would more or less be the same if it was in steam anyway.

    it seems your answer to every developer is they should be putting stuff on steam.
     
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  15. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Where can I get this route currently
     
  16. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    You can’t it got removed as it was uploaded when it shouldn’t have it appears as the author removed it
     
  17. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    The idea is that route devs on Steam can use them, DTG included. But licensing issues and other costs may exist even for freeware. Maybe this is the issue.
     
  18. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Not everything has to go on steam. It’s more annoying for 3rd party to release on steam as well as direct store as they need to send updates to steam etc who take time to update products and out them out. Sometimes it’s more hassle than it’s worth.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
  19. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    As far a trains go, I check if the main consist is available, and by and large scenarios play ok.
     
  20. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Hi there and thanks for obvious care in making it as detailed and realistic as possible.

    I wonder if there’s something to be said for managing expectations to assist with the issues identified.

    Users start with DTG routes, where you pays your money and gets everything you need, then some start to explore third party routes, whether payware or freeware which typically include a number of requirements, beyond DTG routes and locos.

    Some will delight in sourcing and installing multiple assets for a route, whereas others will balk at this. While this can never be changed, perhaps DLC that require multiple multiple assets could have a disclaimer to point this out, stating the reasons above?

    It’s a balancing act between realism (and using dozens of requirements) which ensures only a minority of a minority will ever enjoy this sort of work, or making it more accessible. When even some of the long standing members here say they have nowhere near the requirements, then it’s a very limited pool indeed that is being appealed to.

    Similarly with scenarios, if someone is keen to make intensely ‘decorated’ scenarios with all sorts of AP and UKTS wagons that flash by in seconds, perhaps two versions of a scenario can be made: a simple version focusing on the player train, and your detailed one?

    Obviously it’s creators’ time and decisions, but just a thought. It would certainly be interesting to compare download numbers of routes with a reasonable number of requirements to those that have multiple dozens….

    Certainly creators can save a lot of headaches on the part of prospective users by giving links to every asset required. Some do this and it makes such a difference! I realise the odd link might end up broken over time, but that’s a small price to pay, and the average user won’t might searching for one or two assets, rather than many dozen.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2023
  21. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I think users prefer to use what they have. They can do that. But some things just can’t be found anymore, and others can’t be replaced. If you intend to share content, draw in the largest crowd possible. For things not easily replaced, test without those items. If mildly different, consider a second version assuming that item missing.
     
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  22. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    It’s all well and good you saying that however your forgetting one crucial part of your point.
    All of this is done for FREE in a developer’s FREE time. Take a second and show a little consideration and thought about that for a second. Developers who make freeware are doing it as a kind gesture not to please everyone.
     
  23. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I already stated they can make what they want with what they have, and don’t need to be lectured. My comment is simply that people can also choose to not have an interest in content if they need to install 20 different items to use it. This is probably why the Netherlands routes aren’t in my installation yet, in fact, despite that everything I need is free. Consideration for smaller installations and missing items not easily replaced is a valid consideration in scenario building for users besides yourself. Nothing wrong with the beefier ones; they just have smaller audiences.
     

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