Spirit Of Steam - Update Observations

So I finally plucked up the courage to try SoS again (after running one of the Jubilee Railtours on Kent High Speed). Picked a train from the timetable rather than Journey and so far so good as regards any spurious SPAD's though I know this issue still pending resolution.

The lighting does look much better and the route overall appear less dreary than at launch.

Crewe station still looks a bit odd. That overall roof seems too low and not extended far enough along the platform to my eyes anyway.

Steam physics... Some improvement probably back to where it was in TSW2 if not a little better. Wild fluctuations in boiler pressure seem to have been tamed somewhat, particularly with "manual" fireman and judicious use of the dampers. However you still need to use a very low cutoff value to achieve steam economy, lower than you would have to in MSTS or TSC. Wheelslip is also still occurring at high speeds with the regulator on 85% or above and cutoff around 20 - 25%, you have to wind the cutoff back in even further or close the regulator a bit. This shouldn't be happening. Acceleration seems a bit steadier but I have to question whether a Jubilee on Load 11 could get to and sustain 90 MPH (but still struggle on gradients).

The star of the show for me remains those lovely atmospheric Mark One coaches. There is just something about them that makes me want to grab the DeLorean and go back to 1958, experience for real. I really hope at some point we get the buffet/dining cars and sleeping cars to complement the rest of the collection.

I also think it's high time we got a DLC pack for the route with a couple of extra locos and additional rolling stock. Now that steam physics are improved, Day 1 purchase for me. We also need another steam era route or perhaps, as Matt alluded to in another thread, something BR Green so we can have the transition from steam to diesel.

So overall quite impressed. I can see myself spending a bit more time on SoS, particularly once the SPAD issues are finally sorted.

 

My biggest outstanding issue is the lack of AI sounds when the loco is hauling a train. It ruins one the main good points of TSW in that you can just watch or ride around on the trains.

 

Agreed, I won't be bothering with this route until the AI sounds are included/fixed and even then I won't be on it that much until the timetable is vastly improved. Yeah, a very long wait, I know.

 

Yes it's a shame about the AI sounds, hopefully get sorted at some point.

 

Until we have full control over the boiler water as well it will always be a second-rate experience. I had hoped we'd have it a few weeks after release but here we are half a year later. I always drive with the sound muted as I can't stand the safety valve noise. Either that or I deliberately drive poorly so the pressure stays down.

Still no fix for every train running with incorrect tail lamps. Ai passenger trains dont have them and if you put your own on then you get two on the mk1's which looks ridiculous.

The brake vans of a fully fitted freight train should not have the side lamps either. You cannot remove these sadly.

I only drive my own scenarios as its just too dull with only two locomotives. I can't wait for some new loco dlc.

It is a lovely route though. The semaphore signals in particular are so atmospheric.

 

I seriously doubt it. That's the sort of performance expected of the Stanier Pacifics.
They shouldn't struggle on gradients though. The Jubilees gained quite a reputation for excelling on tough routes like the Settle and Carlisle.

 

One minor niggle that I did notice still present is the excessive sideways oscillation of the loco going through pointwork in particular. Seems way over the top. In fact it almost seems as if it's going to overbalance.

Edit: Oh and one more. In "head out" view you still can't close the fly/smut screen which quickly becomes obscured in rain or snow, as does the in cab spectacle window. Makes it very difficult to see upcoming signals etc. There is a workaround quickly going to "3" view then back to a cab camera which resets the precipitation accumulation, but it soon builds back up again. On the TSC version of these Bossman locos, fairly certain you could fold the screen away.

Edit II - Definitely something still wrong with the adhesion physics. Climbing 0.3% gradient at @50 MPH with 23% cut off started to get wheelslip above 43% regulator. Conditions are snowing but the loco should not be slipping in those conditions in that configuration.

Sorry for ping here DTG Matt but it looks like the physics still need a bit of tweaking.

 

I must say I’ve been on a few large steam engine footplates and I’ve found it is astonishing how much they do wobble about. I was quite suprised even at about 25mph so I can’t imagine what it’s like at higher speeds.
You can’t really tell watching them go past but standing on the plate between the tender and cab makes you feel like you’re going to be flung into the air.

 

Indeed, with all those big chunks of metal whirring around it's not surprising. Not forgetting also that at the time metalwork engineering was not quite as tenths of millimetre precise as it is today.

 

All those sidings and dock lines being unused makes me sad.

 

Said at the time of release, would have been nice to have included the line out to Liverpool Riverside...
http://disused-stations.org.uk/l/liverpool_riverside/index.shtml
Most of it is in tunnel but it was still in use for boat traffic at that time and would have provided a unique experience as opposed to just running down into Lime Street.

 

Ah that would have been sweet.

I’d settle for properly controlable steam engines too!

 

Expansion pack?

 

I tell you what looks sweet, the brake van tour of the Yards (in the 8F Timetable section). Just starting that now so fingers crossed no SPADs and the save holds up.

 

It's the constant wheelslip that annoys me. Want to go above 35mph? Forget it. I know she ain't a fast loco, but It's ridiculous.

 

I must admit, the latest update SOS has almost cracked it. I don't mind the boiler pressure dropping [ it will happen ) It's just that it drops so quickly. I'm luck if i can get up to 35mph without it dropping. Weird thing is that it's better going uphill. With that all said, there is no longer constant wheelslip since the update. Overall I'd say SOS is a fantastic addition to the TSW collection. It's overall well done, given how hard it is to research the locos.

 

Great to hear Matt. Must admit I went back in with some trepidation but it has become addictive the last couple of evenings. Just taking a ride in the Mark One TSO was a great chill out too, before bedtime.

Hopefully some more steam content to come to augment what we have already have, too.

 

I have been playing SOS quite a lot and it is a better experience. Although the lack of AI loco sounds are grating. Hopefully they will be fixed soon.

It really needs a local passenger train for Liverpool to Crewe services and some kind of shunting/trip engine, a Jinty or an 08 or one of its predecessors.

It is too quiet timetable wise especially from the Crewe end.

 

Physics need some more work, sure.
But to be totally honest whenever I have to sacrifice a route on my PS5, it's never SoS.
I play that route at least once per session. Something just so fascinating about that period, and I can't quite explain it, but the route overall does a really great job of making me feel immersed in that period in time.

 

Just finished a quick service on SoS, always a pleasure!
Really surprised DTG still haven't fixed the TSW3 chimney smoke clipping issues... I logged a ticket about this but visibly nothing actioned yet.

 

I’ve just played a morning Jubilee service and it isn’t generating enough steam after a station stop. It’s still quite far from how it was in TSW2. The scenery is too shiny for the new lighting as well. Surfaces look wet when they are dry and the track sleepers are one of the worst offenders. I can’t say the drive I did was that pleasurable because of the glare and lack of available steam.

 

Strange, as apart from the uphill sections, once I opened the dampers and prompted the fireman to start shovelling by opening the firebox door, I seemed to have plenty of steam. My current 8F run, I'm having to keep the dampers shut to keep the steam production at a reasonable level.

 

I’ve found it ok with dampers and fire box open.

I would love some clarification as to how the firebox impacts the fire. In real life you’d lose pressure with the firebox door open but in TSW it seems to make it increase. You can manipulate the fire in real life with the flap but I don’t know if this is simulated so I don’t want to waste my time.

Obviously we can’t see the size of the fire or what the fireman is doing to it so it’s not really a very fulfilling experience for me. Irl you would lose pressure whilst the fireman is shovelling but would start to gain pressure a few minutes later when the new coal started burning.

 

I’m finding I have more steam that I know what to do with on SoS now. I spend a lot of my time finding ways to deliberately waste steam, to prevent the safety valves lifting the moment I close the regulator. Having the firebox door open continuously seems to generate lots of steam (I’d have thought it would cause the heat to escape, but I’m no expert) but I can’t close it because then I get an unexplained service failure within a few minutes.

The Jubilee now performs significantly in excess of the capabilities of the real thing. People think there’s insufficient steam because they’re trying to keep to the completely ridiculous timetable, but if you try running to a real timetable from the era, you find you have plenty of steam.

I’m worried that DTG are trying to give the loco more and more steam to try to get it to run to the timetable, and in the process are making it less realistic. What they need to do is correct the timetable.

 

Goodness knows it wouldn't be too hard to include an 08 since it already exists - maybe just combine the BR Green 09 3D model with the 08's physics - in a shunting layer which in future would allow for substituting say an 0-4-0T

 

Yes it would certainly add some much needed variety and game play if they did so.

 

It's different to the 08 and 09 in game. I think there are braking/physics changes and internal differences, I'm not sure. It would require rebuilding part of the shunter to replicate the version that was running in that era.

 

As the route is sos I don't think they'd add an 08. In a future route then sure thing but I'd love them to release some steam dlc to beef it up over diesel stock

 

You know OldVern I've been considering starting up a similar topic recently, although I have to say that (perhaps unusually?) my view is perhaps a little more negative than yours. Anyway, the headline is...

Spirit of Steam is a hot, hot mess

Since the TSW3 upgrade, SoS is, in my view, undeniably spectacular. The new lighting and the general ambience of the route are second to none, and the amount of detail included within the stations and yards is just fantastic. Visually, this is probably the best route in TSW. The audio is also for the most part, brilliant.

however

Oh my lord there are so many gameplay issues that need sorting.

In rough order of priority:

1) The physics are better but in no way fixed. Adhesion is still giving very weird results and the boiler pressure is all over the place - glad to hear that there is work ongoing here still.

2) The manual firing upgrade will be essential to be able to avoid blowing off all the time when stationary. I'm also surprised that the auto-fireman hasn't been improved so that this doesn't happen (as even if manual firing is introduced, some people will still want to only drive and they shouldn't be subject to the constant PSSSSSSHHHHHH of excess steam at a stop).

3) The timetable is probably the worst in all of TSW. Sorry to say, but I really think it should be scrapped and started from scratch with real-life timings. AI timings are the worst on this route too as it's not possible to meet them (and they shouldn't be in any route now regardless). There is quite a lot of bizarre behaviour as well (8Fs lining up with their wagonloads in a yard, never to move on) and it's just in no way prototypical.

Generally, the route feels very, very empty, particularly at the Crewe end. Crewe was a major railway hub in the 1950s, even more so than today - so why are there virtually no trains at any time of day? It's not all to do with lack of loco DLC either, as locomotive changes were quite common at Crewe (or so I understand) so they could have been implemented on some of the express trains.

4) Still not seeing blood and custard coaches in timetable mode - what was the point in doing the livery if we never see them?

5) It's a real shame to see that there is no working PIS system for this route. Why don't the destination boards at Lime Street work, and maybe chalkboards on the platforms for the other stations that occasionally re-write themselves with an updated timetable? It doesn't need to be anything spectacular but for those of us that like to walk around the route on foot or take the occasional passenger train, it's frustrating to have to keep inferring when the next train will arrive from the 9 map.

6) This route was only ever going to work in the delivered state if it was swiftly followed up by several loco DLC to add in the required local passenger / freight / shunting layers. This route needs these far more than any other DLC (yes, even more than my favourite topic the missing Class 700 on BML / SEHS).

However (again) - I still think this has the potential to be one of the finest routes released for TSW if it's given the necessary love, care and ongoing DLC commitment. Loads of us want more steam, that's why we bought it - so why not give us more?

Anyway, if you made it this far, thanks for reading. Fingers crossed that TSW can eventually give us the steam experience we're all holding on for. I still believe

 

I think this is related to Nos. 1 and 2: I doubt DTG are going to do another steam loco until they first get steam physics sorted.

 

For #2, what dtg said is that they plan to implement manual firing and then apply it to the autofireman for those who don't want too do manual firing.

 

I didn't state it outright but yeah I agree. It makes sense, it's just a shame it's taking so long to get the physics sorted.

 

I so so much want this route fixed and improved. I was so excited about having it. Yet it was like when you was a kid and you opened up that gift and it wasn't what you wanted. Your heart just sank and you filled up with total disappointment!
I spent a long session in the On Foot mode seeking out the route task collectables. I practically walked the entire route, and in all of that time not a single AI train to be seen.
It's really great to hear that the bugs and the physics are finally being looked at. So huge thanks to all at DTG for looking into it. But as above SoS is seriously lacking in AI trains be passenger or goods. Also to see 20, 30 odd loco's just sitting in sheds and yards( which all happen to be just Jubilee's or just 8F's) is just ridiculous! It really does need more of a variety of loco's. Crabs, Pannier tanks standards, loco's that can be used for yard work, goods trains or small local passenger trains.
Hopefully once the major bugs have been ironed out you can give us a couple of loco's to fill the gaps?
The actual route itself is wonderful, but without the traffic it looks and feels more like a preservation railway, than a working railway in its heyday!
I am so hoping that improvements to this wonderful route continue, and I look forwards to see what they bring

 

I do agree the timetable needs a bit of an overhaul. The late running and low amounts of AI traffic are the most noticeable things about this route imo that need improving because I love the visuals and the details the station so hopefully DTG can follow up with dlc and perhaps rework the timetable so we can stay on time?

 

Agree it needs to be busier. At least two if not three more classes of loco and more rolling stock to start filling things out.

 

Is it my imagination or has the sound of the chuff when the loco is working hard a lot quieter now?
The hiss of the pistons are ten times louder that the chuffing. Even when you go to the outside camera, all you can hear is the sound of the pistons!

 

And refund, if we're being realistic.

Cheers

 

This is what keeps me from driving it for now, they should not be able to get to and sustain 90mph with such ease. That kind of performance is what made the A4s special, forget about a Class 6 4-6-0.

 

Give it a rest, why don't you.

 

This is what really annoys me. As I understand it, AI timings are calcuated based on the very simple simulation used for AI trains - so it shouldn't be too hard to check if the timings it gives are appropriate and if not reduce the simulation's performance.

 

It's as though their timings are set in laboratory conditions, and then we are expected to achieve them in the real world?

 

The answer to this is probably buried somewhere in the recesses of the forum, but I'm feeling lazy today. Is the 101 era appropriate for SOS? (livery notwithstanding)

And if not, are any of the currently available diesels?

 

Not really. The first 101s were just entering service in 1956, but not, I believe, on Clydeside yet. Besides, the remodeling would require more than green paint- the model we have reflects the extensive 1970's overhaul.

 

The 08 would be, but IIIRC the TSW version has certain later modifications.
For reference, according to brdatabase.info, 08s were allocated to the following sheds represented in Spirit of Steam by December 1955:

• Crewe South - 5
• Speke Junction - 3

 

As I think I mentioned before, the WSR green 09 is very, very close, as a physical model, to the original 08s; combine that with the blue 08's physics and you're just about there (if there is no brake mode selector switch, then the loco can be set permanently to vacuum).

 

One thing that would be useful, now I've started looking at the 8F and some freight workings is the type and class of train, to determine maximum speed. Off the top of my head:
Class C = 55 MPH.
Class D = 50 MPH.
Class E = 45 MPH.
Class F to K = 35 MPH.

 

No although they were entering service in reasonably numbers by 1958 they would have been vanishingly rare on this route. Allerton depot which would have provided any diesel services on locals to Crewe had Derby class 108 units. However I suspect steam gave way to the class 304 EMU's on the local service, although can't be sure about that.

 

How do you tell the class? Please.

 

dangerousdave
There's a picture that describes different classes and their respective headcodes in that article: http://igg.org.uk/rail/3-sigs/bellhead.htm