Linke Rheinstrecke: Mainz-koblenz

That ICE still had original interiors and an orient red livery though. The ine we have in game is considerably modernized. For me that wouldn't feel correct. Although verkehrsrot was being introduced, the interiors were still different and it's a less modern version of verkehrsrot than we have in game.

As for InterRegio services, perhaps a later DLC with a BR 120 or 111 and IR coaches could be nice. Perhaps also a nice freight variety DLC.

In addition to some of the great sources already listed I would also like to share the following video which contains a lot of shots of the linke and rechte rheinstrecke in modern times but also in 1996/1997. It's a good piece to show the mood.

 

Which they will not do, if it is a pure layer. But yes, they did look slightly different, back then. I thought we are talking about the service on this route. Nevertheless, I must admit, I would rather have the ICE in its current design as a layer, then not to have it at all. After all, we are even talking about the wrong train (ICE1 vs ICE2). I did not see too many complaints about the 612 on BRO as substitute, either.

 

Agreed completely. It would be a huge shame not to have the ICE as a layer on this.

 

The ICEs only got the new livery between 1998 and mid-2000. So, if the line is set in 1997, it does not fit.

I am not talking only about the livery, but also the sounds and the cabs and the interiors, which were all quite different.
A lot of people also complained about the BR 612. But the BR 612 existed in 2009 in verkehrsrot, so it is more plausible, than a very modern ICE on a route set in 1997.

 

This could be a rare day one buy for me. Ace selection of rolling stock.

 

Another fantastic resource. Used it just this morning to check what type of ICE ran through Koblenz.

I'm in two minds about this. I wouldn't mind the livery or ICE 2 vs ICE 1 as much (after all, our gods and masters over in Zusi only have the modern paint scheme for the ICE in 90s routes), but the modernised LED headlights annoy me. I'd love to have the ICE on there for this end-of-an-era feeling that the 90s have (at least in retrospect), but I can't help but feel that the modern headlights would throw me quite a bit.

 

That is a minor difference compared with the massive missed opportunity of not having an ICE on the Rhine route. Half the time you'll be passing them anyway.

 

I hope, that DTG do an expansion pack with the older variant of the ICE1. But for the rest, it just feels wrong.

 

Then again, the ICE1, we are driving on BRO, was not around until 2010, with its IGBTs and its new cockpit. Imagine this train would not be in there, it would be less appealing. At least to me. Even though the outside looks slightly different for 1997, I agree.

 

well, that is the difference between a 1 year-difference and 13 years.

Personally, either way, I am hoping for a modern timetable-expansion later on. But please let 1997 be 1997, and not 2010s.

 

We agree that we dont agree Thats the problem with personal taste, everyone's is different

Lets wait and see what DTG thinks we want...

 

Ultimately you to have to work with what we have. We're not in a situtation where every variant of every train is available, and we never will be. A huge strength of the rhine route is its varied traffic, and the high quality services that run along it. Variety and density of services are the biggest factor for making a route feel alive, and I feel like minor adjustments are worth it until we get everything completely accurate. It's not like we're talking about running a GP38 with a rake of RhB coaches and a Bakerloo line driving cab here.

HS Rhein-Ruhr has no ICEs, and RRO has no long distance trains at all. That spoils the immersiveness way more for me than a slight compromise on 100% accuracy.

(hint: refreshed timetables for RRO and HSRR please)

 

Yeah, here I agree 100%. I hope DTG let Joe do that one day

 

I could also live with using the ICE1 like we already have in TSW3.

The paintwork doesn't quite match because, as already mentioned, the ICE1 was only repainted piece by piece from 1998, but the route is located in 1997.

But better than not seeing any ICE on the Rhine route.

In general, the 1990s are difficult to portray because a lot happened during this time.

 

As for the BR 101, the Fernverkehrs Datenbank does have evidence that supports that it was used on some IC services along this route from september of 1997 onwards. Interestingly, there's also evidence of the BR 112 being used from Koblenz on IR services to the north. Though most likely still in orient red livery (as the 112's were relatively new and usually repaints only happen during 'hauptuntersuchungen', so the big overhauls). It could be debatable as an AI layer around Koblenz, but to me would feel anachronistic in traffic red.

Furhtermore a select number of the D-trains were operated by the BR 110, would be good to see this engine on at least some through services as opposed to only regional ones.

That site really is a treasure trove, as it contains not only services, but the exact makeup of the trains on those services, down to specific coach and locomotive types, and they way they varied throughout the year. It has been really helpful on the '90s suggestions I have previously made, and I really hope DTG uses it.

 

To me, this a strength. All sorts of stuff was going on - so more variety is plausible.

 

I love that time too, it was so varied and colourful. No comparison to today's monotony.

 

You'd rather have no ICE services than slightly wrong ICE services?

This livery is already available in the livery editor.

 

I really hope they pack this route with trains. The left Rhein was the densest route until they opened the ICE connection between Frankfurt and Köln. There was no train without delay. So I don't mind the newer ICE1, I hope to have a lot of 101 services, regional and freight in between. This is going to be awesome.

 

Okay, so I spent about an hour staring at services tables on the Datenbank Fernverkehr. As a nice little oversight, with some opinions of mine I have compiled the following.

EC/IC: Mostly the BR 103 until the end of september 1997, after that increasingly the BR 101. A few services operated by the not in-game BR 120, but only a handfull as the BR 120 was mostly concentrated in the southeast at the time. All trains had a nice mix of around 3 1st class, 1 dining and 7 or more 2nd class coaches. Lengthening did happen in real life, mostly on weekends, with a few 2nd class coaches for a total of 13-14 coaches.
IR: Pretty much exclusively the BR 103 with IR coaches. Mostly 2 1st class coaches, 1 half dining half 1st class coach and 7 2nd class coaches, though it wasn't uncommon for IR services to be lengthened with mostly 2nd class coaches when demand was high in weekends.
D: A mix of BR 110 and BR 103. Can't find too much on the coaches. It would be nice to see some BR 110 operated through services though.
ICE: Pretty much only a handful of ICE 2 services. I personally don't think the ICE 1 belongs here, as it's the wrong (though admittedly similar) train, in the wrong era, with the wrong equipment and interior. However I do understand why others do want to see it. It's just a few services, so I'm mostly indifferent.

Overall a pretty nice timetable. With the BR 101 subbing in a bit for extra variety, the 110 on some D services and hopefully (but probably not) dedicated IR coaches for those services this could be a really fun and varied route service wise. The EC, IC and IR trains are also properly long, with 11-14 coaches being the norm. Looking forward to this.

 

Rounded cars are one thing, but that SUV and coupe we see on the current screenshots scream 2010s in their design. No wonder, they came from the GWE route originally. In my opinions they should forget using those two cars altogether, as they are really ugly and low badly made and an eyesore on every route.

Really hoping they get replaced with more fitting cars until release. I mean you see them everywhere alongside a route, so they are quite an immersion breaker if you want to sell it as a '90s route.

One thing I am happy about that at least they finally changed the yellow licence plate on them to white ones. It drives me crazy seeing cars with yellow UK plates on every route around the globe.

 

Interregio would be great, but then you would actually need an oriental red 103.

When I look at the 103 shown in the screenshots, I tend to believe that there will be the "Rheingold", which would at least match the 103 shown with the rock. But who knows... definitely very exciting.

 

There were always some 103s in the TEE livery, so they could be seen with Orientred or pastellblue coaches, and even later liveries.

I remember creating a lot of activities for ProTrain Rheintal on MSTS when it came out - about the time of the last full Rhine timetable before the HSL was opened. The service then was roughly:

1x IC Hamburg to Basel (including EC)
1x IC Dortmund to Munich (including EC)
0.5 ICE Berlin to Nurnberg with ICE1
0.5 IC Leipzig to Regensburg (a big C shape around the country)
0.5 IR Norddeich Mole to Karlsruhe (alternating with a train that went down the Mosel), calling at Boppard and Bingen
1x RB Koblenz to Mainz
Occasional RE Koblenz - Mainz

 

I hope that in future german routes the BR 103 will have some railtour services. Finally we have (with the 110) trains, that can fit that purpose!

I am extremely excited and tbh, TSW goes in the absolutely right way now! One of the most scenic routes with one of the most famous trains that germany ever saw.

 

Tell me about the vehicles used and the type of operation.

 

Literally two posts above yours is an overview of the real life service pattern from 1997. We will get the BR 103 with some yet unknown coaching stock for InterCity services, and we will get the BR 110 in Orientrot with mint-green n-Wagen stock for regional traffic.

 

The 110 and nwagen is the ones from bro so if you have that, it's the same driving experience. 103 should be similar

 

I don't think the 103 should be similar, actually? The 103 is a massively powerful (more than 10 megawatts of power!) high speed locomotive.

 

I don't know if it has been previously discussed or not, but will this route feature "complete" runs, giving the chance to do proper back and forth operation of desired?

 

I agree the 90’s is a good era too, across both Germany & the UK, the problem is that DTG don’t like doing the leg work, so ultimately we don’t see the benefit of such a timeframe.

 

For the 103 and Long distance trains, No.
I dont know if there was a Mainz Koblenz RB in the 90s, but nowadays, all regional services continue either north or southbound

 

IIRC, the 103s only hauled IC services and so the coaches were beige/red, until the changeover to white with Orient-red and violet stripes. Beige/blue was for 'normal' trains hauled by Einheits and 120s.

 

I am a little concerned about freight. There was some on the left track and a LOT on the right track (which is visible across the river for most of the route)- but the game currently doesn't have an appropriate freight loco. Too early for TRAXX, of course, and I don't believe in 1992- before unification - you would be seeing any DR locos in the West.

 

Perhaps the vintage locos with the old wagons can layer onto the 2-3 big stations on Niddertalbahn as AI services and static stock considering both routes are set basically in the same timeframe?

 

Let's see, how much power the V60 has for some big freight trains

 

For Intercity, 2nd class coaches were blue and beige after it was introduced, then the entire sets became Orientrot (era mixing notwithstanding).

 

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There was. The merging with the local service north of Koblenz only happened after it was privatised.

 

The 155 could sneak in I reckon.

 

You are correct and how about the era appropriate DB Baureihe 139 140 150 those Standard Electric locomotives (Einheitselok) can fit here. You might remember those locomotives running the US Army Berlin duty train from Frankfurt Am Main to Hbf Helmstedt via Kassel Wilhelmshöhe. Since at Helmstedt DR Baureihe 132 (Ruhr-Sieg Nord) run on the train from there all the way to West Berlin Zoologischer Bahnhof or West Berlin Charlottenburg Bahnhof via Marienborn.

 

I read somewhere that the regarding the stock. 'DB BR 103 TEE + coaches (not ready to show)' I don't know if that means we are getting TEE coaches?

 

Regarding the coaches, nothing else has been confirmed than that they are still WIP. So we don't know if it's TEE, Rheingold, IR or whatever.

 

Yes, I should have mentioned the TEE as well, since the Rheingold and Rheinpfeil which ran the LRS were TEE trains.

The IC was, in its origin, an extension of the TEE program for domestic German routes: express luxury trains, first-class only (until around 1979 anyway). They shared a common pool of rolling stock, the beige/dark red Eurofima coaches and 103s (except for the dome cars which were specific to the Rheingold and Rheinpfeil). By the early 90s they had second-class seating as well.

Other long-distance services in 1992 were handled by the Interregios, which had blue window bands, but I doubt we will get those. It appears we will be getting Lokalbahn in mint-green, pulled by Orientrot 110s; this is a bit of a fudge. The 110s at the time had not yet been demoted to local service, which was handled by 141s for the most part; and few 110s had yet been repainted from ocean blue or even the old cobalt blue.

 

From the IC '79 introduction in (you guessed it) 1997 blue/beige coaches were also hauled in ICs by the 103. The 120 also mostly hauled IC and IR trains. For the einheitsloks on 'normal' trains blue beige is indeed the most typical, except for the silberlinge of course, until the introduction of produktfarben.

 

Matt said the route is set in 1997 though, so at this point the BR 155 and 143 were already well represented in the west aswell. The 155 would be the best candidate for freight on the route looking at the locos we have, though it would need a new livery and some backdating.

 

So the introduction of second class into the ICs was accomplished simply by adding standard blue coaches to the consist?

 

Yes and no. The coaches were modified with better brakes and new bogies if I recall correctly, in addition new coaches were ordered. However, on all ICs past 1979 the second class coaches were blue/beige, even for the new coaches. The video I shared earlier also notes that I believe.

 

Now I am confused. I thought blue-beige only lasted up until 1987 (give or take), when it was replaced by Produktfarben. Were these IC 2C coaches Interregio blue/white?

 

Oh oops. That was a typo on my side, I meant 1979 not 1997

 

Yes, the second class coaches introduced in 1979 were the same as the Bpmz and Bvmz still around, with some older coaches too ("Bm"). This continued into the Orientrot days, until the end of the 90s when the Bms were replaced with Bimz coaches (the Bms that had been converted for Interregio).

My guess would be the Avmz, Bpmz and hopefully a WRmz (and Apmz, Bvmz, etc) in Orientrot.

 

the route is set in 1997, so IC and IR should be in Produktfarben. Red for IC, blue for IR.