Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

The original route went all the way to Philadelphia, though it only had Amtrak content. Even if they did the TSW route all the way to Philly, the route would be dead of local traffic between Trenton and Philly due to no SEPTA license, so it made sense for them to focus on the NJT portion of the line.

But of course, we won't even get a full timetable so.....

 

So, other than layers from other routes, what services are supposedly missing for the included trains? I must have missed them saying that in the stream, or they said it in the last 40 minutes which I haven’t watched yet.

 

I'm going to conduct two behaviours

Do as is I did with Edinburgh and not buy more issues.
Keep money in my pocket and not pay extra via bundles unsupportive of existing players

 

I’m still quite impressed by the route and the many “yes” answers Matt could give to the questions in the roadmap stream, but I really don’t understand why DTG would internally accept a timetable that isn’t representative of the real life service frequency nowadays.

If there are technical reasons for this (e.g. some regular services disabled so the Acela could appear more often, overall performance limitations etc.), that would be reasonable in my opinion. But if they simply didn’t brother putting these services in and/or ran out of time (the latter being more plausible as the timetable is apparently still deep in development according to some comments made here on the forums), I don’t get why that can even happen. I guess I’m just slightly confused why so much time would be spent assembling a route out of two earlier releases plus all-new content, just to then settle on a lackluster timetable so a certain release date could be met.

I’m personally not too bothered by the reduced service frequency (after all, I can have the time of my life on a route like WSR which has less than 40 services in total). But I know this will disgruntle many other players. I thought TSW would be too advanced - and the developers too experienced and skilled - by now to still even be thinking about releasing incomplete timetables.

 

Really is just sad. Honestly was keeping my expectations low anyway, not only does US content always draw the short stick, but with the recent releases I'm expecting bugs galore when it releases. There's another thread on here about DTG's lack of consistency in features, but I'm going to amend that to: not just lack of consistent features, but lack of consistent quality between routes.

I don't really remember the NEC route from TSW1 so I can't comment on the scenery stuff, but on the PIS...what the heck happened to that thread where DTG asked for community pictures/videos of PIS so they can do more realistic stuff when they can't get first hand reference. It seems that was for nothing. I 100% agree here, this is absolutely no excuse other than laziness for not doing something more prototypical. It also says something to me when DTG does nothing about the ATC faults on Boston, then after a year has to be picked up by a community member to actually get implemented correctly. DTGs signalling team should have their research on American safety systems such that they're done right the first time. They do it for PZB/LZB in Germany. I doubt the cab signalling will ever get fixed on SMH. I don't care what DTGs internal data says about players using safety systems...if you can't get reference material to fundamental systems to train operation (i.e., the simulation aspect of the game) don't do the route, simple as that.

 

They didn't go into full detail on what's not included. Only thing I remember is Matt said it's not a full timetable and he looked quite disappointed about that. Probably missing njt traffic. Cuz amtrak and acela don't make up a lot compared to njt.

 

In regards to the timetable;

I can understand the Amtrak Long Distance trains being excluded, that's perfectly fine, and I expected that because we don't have the rolling stock.

LIRR AI services should've been included, no excuses for excluding LIRR here.

If routes like SEHS can have special layers like the LGV, ICE 3, and Southern 377 loaned to Southeastern. And London-Brighton having the 313 ECS, HST diversion services, there's ZERO reason at all that LIRR should've been excluded, it's just not right.

The way Matt and JD worded it on the stream tonight, the Amtrak (excluding Long Distance) and NJ Transit timetables aren't the full timetables. That is also inexcusable.

I can't believe Matt and JD can actually say all this and think that it's acceptable and fine. It's not.

 

I haven't had a chance to watch the stream yet, but this is decidedly not reassuring. Honestly I don't care too much about no LIRR AI and no Morrisville yard, because I mostly focus on the A to B and not really the endpoints or depot moves. However, completely understand the point of view of people who do want this, and also agree that at least LIRR should be there.

No CSX static wagons or locos is a bad look. This was present on NEC-BP and HAR and really helps the feel of those routes. So, the exclusion of such represents a step back from what we previously had. This isn't even to mention the actual freight timetable services for routes like this that now seem even farther away.

However the timetable services are the main problem. This route needs to feel busy. What is missing? I would hazard a guess. Probably no long distance services, although a degraded Lake Shore Ltd was present on NEC-BP. So, again, any missing long distance trains would represent a step backwards. I would also expect a lot of missing NJT ancillary services such as M&E, Raritan (AI), and maybe even Jersey Ave. trains. Perhaps even NJCL, although if these services are missing then what we are looking at will truly be bare-bones.

Much as others have said, I will reserve judgement until the route articles and streams, but I have limited expectations, and perhaps that's for the best. Still planning on picking up Acela, but definitely not sold on this new route.

 

It's not a fair comparison to compare a quiet, but realistic timetable of a heritage, single-track branch line with a super-busy mainline route like New York-Trenton, especially with major stations like New York Penn. The new route should be as busy as technically possible - and there is certainly no excuse, whether for New York-Trenton or other newer routes like Cross City, Edinburgh-Glasgow etc, when compared to the pinnacle of TSW back with Rush Hour and London Commuter alone.

It's really concerning frankly. Prior to Rush Hour, older routes previously had, in my opinion, not that much excitement or real busyness about them. Then, soon as the Rush Hour routes arrived it showed what the true capability of TSW could and should be when it comes to epic timetables with long-term playability thanks to more locos, unique services and variety, plus lots of AI traffic for exciting gameplay.

As I've mentioned when suggesting improvements to routes, DTG please make use of all existing content from TSW where applicable for busier, better timetables!

 

I was thinking the same thing. When I watch the stream I was wondering is this for real or is this an early April fool’s joke. Honestly I find it insulting that they think we wouldn’t notice since all this content is all bundle and hidden what is turning out to be a worst case scenario. To sit there a just mentioned how lots of the assets were actually reused. Could you imagine if the BML came out with no southeastern trains, only half the services from southern at Victoria?

 

Very surprised that freight wasn't even mentioned as part of the no-layers bit, whether it's CSX from Sand Patch or the such. But then again, if layered in, they would've been just sidelined as scenery, much like Boston Sprinter (Harlem was a bit more on that because of parts of Oak Point).

Another wasted opportunity into the fail pile. Feels like US content is getting worse and worse from new DLCs recently.

 

So it sounds like services that go off route to other destinations then. That’s a shame, the AI content is just as important as the drivable services. I can understand if it’s trains from other routes and performance is the issue with the extra stock but not for the same trains. If that is the case then it needs looking at again. That has happened with quite a few routes after player feedback so this should be no different.

 

I think drivable services are missing too since it's also part of the timetable. But won't know until the preview stream

 

Exactly NO EXCUSES!!!

 

They are even willing to bend the rules when it comes to available locos on the UK and German routes. To leave the LIRR, the busiest railroad in America out of this DLC, out of Penn station…. again just mind boggling .We have an LIRR route that’s not even 30 % representative of the real time table,years of begging to redo the time table. We thought at least, in TSW3 ,first passenger route for the US, the busiest part of the NEC properly represented……. I really had my hopes on this. Too many red flags, should had known better. At least they didn’t get me this time.

 

Watch, they’re going to say they’ll look into it for a “post-release patch”

which we know nine times out of ten it won’t happen

 

You mean SEPTA license. Easy mistake since they have neither SEPTA nor MARC licenses.

 

Oops, yeah MARC is Washington Baltimore.

 

DTG are really working hard to piss off their customers with half-arsed releases. They must know by now what we want and yet they fail to deliver time after time. Again, all down to some ludicrous arbitrary deadline. Sick of getting kicked in the balls and then the teeth as I drop to the floor writhing in agony.

 

Still no reply from JD or Matt Do they even care about what the NA Fans or Railfan think about this issue at all?

 

It's late at night in the uk right now. Let them sleep and maybe they'll respond in the morning if at all

 

So anyways with a discussion in the TSC Discord server, one thing we didn’t consider is in this thread is what if a full timetable including LIRR, actually breaks the timetable and AI due to how busy it is? And it’s a valid point.

Now if this were the case, why couldn’t they compensate by having some static LIRR trains at Penn that don’t move, and maybe have very limited amount of LIRR AI services that drive in and out of Penn, they don’t have to be too many, and it doesn’t need to be a realistic timetable for LIRR, just something to increase the immersion.

Penn Station, isn’t Penn Station, without seeing Amtrak, NJT, and LIRR all there. Even just seeing some static LIRR trains at Penn would be great for immersion.

 

Didn't get to watch the stream, so this is all very disappointing after the excitement on Sunday.

Think i'll be skipping NY-Trenton until they put a little more effort into it- the timetable seems just anemic- i kinda get no long distance trains, but no LIRR is just baffling considering they appear in scenarios, like what?? And, what's missing from NJT? Is it due to missing stock? I don't rrally know NJT stock that well tbh, but...there's just always something missing right?

This just screams a rushed release that had to get out the door for financial reasons, which is frankly concerning for the entirety of the game.

I hope the producers can fix their project management process because something's seriously messed up right now.

 

Really got to be kidding me. There are some things that can be improved or rethought of. It bogs my mind how in the stream, it was mentioned that the Manhattan skyline was not revamped. It has been 5 years since the release of LIRR. I don't understand why revamping the Manhattan skyline was not considered. And why is there a lack of LIRR? America's busies railroad (LIRR) always seems to be neglected in some way when it comes to TSW. The M7 sounds have not been completely fixed when decelerating.

Other than that, I do like all the positives that this route brings and am looking forward to it (from the improved signaling system, to Amtrak ACS-64 overhaul, NJT/Amtrak rolling stock, to improvements in texturing, lighting, and variety of scenarios) Let's see how the release of the route goes. Hopefully over time the can be implemented with AI trains to better simulate the traffic and congestion within Penn Station.

 

I’m still waiting for the updated LIRR timetable that we never got . Harlem, red lights issues. Will believe him when is fixed. LIRR empty route that’s not even close, Peninsula Corridor, still waiting for the time table fix.When it comes to US content, if we don’t get the content before they get our hard earned money, history has shown you will wait,and wait, and wait……and keep on waiting.

 

I’m not optimistic we’ll see any change at all. Half the community will think it’s amazing and as long as DTG gets the sales, our “negative” opinions don’t matter.

Don’t have any high hopes for scenery between Newark and Sunnyside. The original NEC NY and LIRR routes are both reaching 5-6 years old now (half a decade) and are definitely not up to the quality standards that TSW has today, heck NEC NY was one of the first TSW routes.

The whole route should’ve been rebuilt from scratch.

 

I couldn’t believe hearing Matt that Penn station,NYC skyline, sunnyside,Newark Penn, Heck basically everything reused from the original TSW. Probably same for the Cabcar. At least he didn’t try to explain, just said we reused it. Like the US community was going to be accepting it.I wish more people would voice on this. But the Acela has blinded most and that’s exactly what they counted on. That’s why is a bundle release.

 

Yeah I definitely agree that they’re using the Bundle strategy to try and mask all of Trenton’s flaws so far. It’s a real shame.

 

I was also looking forward to this route...but I fear it is going to feel as deserted as the old LIRR and NEC NY routes without those additional layers

I'm not sure why the US passenger content is always a bit lacklustre compared to DE and UK content....I would love it if this weren't the case.

NYC-Trenton feels more now like a test route for the Acela

 

The fact joe´s 200% performance and ambition cant be in every timetable, is unfortunately reality. But at this point i would like to know why the heck they NOT at all include existing stock on a new route if its running there, even as a.i. As far i remember past 2 years i heared a lot of "we just dont have the available stock at the moment..", which was kind of plausible because i dont like going fantasy.

a.i traffic was "THE" feature, made tsw routes really alive introduced at rush hour releases together with a lot of static stock. So is there a particular reason behind??

Lately a lot of features have gone down the river, so this is the new direction for tsw routes --> Going 10 steps back to tsw 2020 in the deep era of empty stations, no a.i and minimum static stock, and this for a future route coming after a 6 year history of the franchise??

Seems a lot of sugarcoating lately, DTG is risking a dangerous path with increased prices, dropped quality and upcoming other train sims.

Not taking advantage of elements, made the past releases great, is probably the laziest way to tell your customers that you just dont give a (s)hit.

 

I’d like a better explanation of exactly what traffic is missing from time table before judging this.

 

Basically, everything in this thread is what we've heard from DTG themselves already, particularly from today's roadmap stream. The summary of what they said (in regards to the timetable only) is that it's not a full timetable and that the ONLY layer is the Acela train. By saying no layers at all, what we could assume is that there are no static CSX freight cars like Harlem and Boston had, and there's no LIRR.

Now we do know that the Amtrak timetable (besides Long Distance trains) IS indeed the full timetable, and that's good.
NJT we don't know for sure yet, and we won't know until a proper Q&A stream, and them saying on the roadmap stream that it's not a full timetable in general is not a good sign. LIRR being excluded is inexcusable though regardless.

The timetable layers issues are not the only thing affecting this DLC.

 

Didnt watch the roadmap, but if its true im not gonna buy this and acela until they are heavy on sale.

 

And a fix to the proplusion to the m7 since the proplusion still cuts out in the rear 4,6 and 8 cars

 

So I have just watched the stream at a very late hour. Here are the red flags I have noted:

The cab car seems to be everywhere and is certainly being oversold. In reality it would only show up on a relatively few certain services. It seems like it will be unrealistically common.

If the LIRR is in scenarios, but not in service mode, then do you need to buy LIRR, just to complete the scenarios? If so, that is unsatisfactory. On the other hand, if the stock is included within the route DLC to complete all the scenarios, as it should be, then why can't it be included otherwise?

The choice to reuse the old DLCs would make sense, only if the work that could have been put in to make these areas from scratch, was instead devoted to a robust timetable and meaningful layers.

It is fairly clear that long distance services will not be present, which does effect the route as far as frequency and variety of services, even if the correct stock could not be used. I also expect no additional NJT services except for NJCL. If even NJCL is not present, then I would consider the timetable extremely weak. But, I will say that the inclusion of Jersey Ave trains and intermediate AMTK station stops might indicate that the timetable is not completely hopeless.

For all the chatter about signalling systems, the signals need to work right on day one. If not, it will be evident that DTG cannot reliably create US passenger routes (bar SFJ, I suppose).

 

Yea I'm just going to buy the Acela thats all. The NYT route while its good to see something i live next to represented, its very inaccurate in scenery in the sunnyside yard, the timetable won't be a true representation of how busy the line is. when i play this game i don't just drive and ride trains, i also like to railfan sometimes at stations. Won't be fun inside New York Penn. Wish they stop cutting corners with US passenger content and do it justice the same way they do german content.

 

They could've added NJCL at least as far as South Amboy to add some services. I would've been okay as well as at least LIRR ai in and out of Penn...even if it's LIRR every 20 mins in and out of Penn that's okay, but nope, DTG as usual screws up the US contemt..meanwhile London Commuter has numerous ai layers even the BAKERLOO line has many freight layers scattered not jus the WCML(if thats the correct one)...even Hamburg-Luebeck upgraded with MILLIONS of ai layers in and out of Hamburg..NY-Trenton could've had potential but again, no love for the US content....I'm passing on this dlc.. major FAIL from Dovetail!

 

Spot on and for NJ Transit NY Penn you have M&E Montclair Boonton Line NJCL & RVL. to make them playable RVL uses ALP-45DP from Newark Penn to NY Penn M&E MoBo NY Penn Secaucus Junction with ALP-46 ALP-45DP & ALP-46A NJCL ALP-46A ALP-46 ALP-45DP Rahway to NY Penn.

 

NJCL to South Amboy would have been great. Instead, there is the very real possibility that these trains won't even be in the game, in any capacity, at all. We have digressed from high hopes to low expectations.

 

Let's also just hope there's no clipping issues with the train and the platform at Penn Station still since it's being reused

 

I was watching SPs video on his take for the new content, and while not Penn, it was pointed out in the NJT coach preview that it looked like it was clipping thru the platform that the car was parked at, so they may not of fixed that issue at Penn either.

 

Just a correction of information in this thread.

So far we don’t actually know what JD and Matt meant by “not the full timetable”, they avoided all the questions in the chat on specifics.

We assumed it would be the whole timetable in general, but as someone on the beta team corrected on a Discord server, the Amtrak side of things is actually the whole timetable, so maybe it’s referring to the lack of LIRR, or both NJT and LIRR

We’d probably have to wait until the preview stream to see what exactly they meant by that, or if Matt replies to this thread at all.

It is important to note that even if the NJT timetable is the full timetable, this route still has other major flaws.

 

As much as I wanted a return of the NEC New York route, not having it updated gives me a bit of an unwell feeling. The AI layers are another worrying some topic.

But what in the world was that messup with Rivet ?

"They didn't knew the whole feature set required for a new release"

Of course, if they take more time to build for such a route for longer than TSW3 exists, I understand that things like that might slip through if the route releases close after TSW3. But this is around 5 months later. And that excuse does not shed a good light on DTGs internal comunication. Especially after claiming that the special projects team works closer with third parties. Wouldn't they eventually inform Rivet about missing features ?

That really lowers my expectation for Skyhooks route and every other new third party route for TSW3, TSW4 and every other future installment.

 

As soon as I heard there was no reference trip it makes me nervous as I immediately think is this another stab in wind.

I wonder if the development time in tsw is longer and this is why the non accurate timetables are coming out.

This could also mean that there's a much bigger project bubbling behind scenes and these are just "tie us over " routes

 

Thats why, Im just staying with free road updates (I own SMH and BS), to see how they solve obvious coming turbulences

 

Ah yes it was Philadelphia, it was a good run, I haven't played it for many years. I suspect it would have been quite a long route for DTG to make.

I understand what you are saying about the lack of local traffic at that end of the route.

 

Spot on and if they did have the SEPTA license then Comet II-IV can be made

 

Interesting thought. This would explain the rushed change to tsw3 with more or less no substantial but more visual upgrades.

Either they are working on something big or there is really something going entirely wrong in their house.

The feature roulette lately, and now not adding a.i layers with proper existing stock on that section.

Im willing to buy every dlc at day 1 for even more money if see the passion of getting out everything possible in the development, going the extra miles, making their product immersing as possible.

But currently the newest releases just cant hide the decision to rush it out.
With acela and the new us route i definetly wait for community feedback. But both i wont buy for full price.

 

I’ve just rewatched the section of the stream and Matt saying it wasn’t the full timetable was in response to a question about AI trains and the amount of traffic on the route specifically. I guess this is just like the majority of other routes in that respect and doesn’t include missing drivable services. When talking previously about the drivable services he said it was based on the real timetable, so that means they will all be there. Not as bad as the panic in this thread may suggest but not as busy as we would like it to be.