Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

I guess we wait and see what the actual count of services is

 

Personally I am not really worried about an exact count. Either 500 services or 1500 services don't say much to me.

But I will be looking forward to the preview stream and see what it will feel like in-game. They said the timetable is based on the real one, so that is good news at least. We will see what that actually means im term of business.

 

This.

There’s a lot of hysteria and speculation now over what amounts to a very short comment without detail. Until we see the timetable for sure (or get a more detailed answer) I’m not getting too worked up about this. Technically no TSW routes have a “full timetable” since there are always certain trains or operators missing.

 

There’s no LIRR traffic and no freight. Amtrak make up a small percentage of the the traffic overall. That’s the issue, DTG do have the trains & operators available, they just haven’t used them.

 

Exactly so they really have no excuse to not add them if they already have the existing stock. Now if they didnt then that would be a whole different story. But the fact CSX was removed for some reason when it was already on the route in TSW 2020.... I don't understand

 

Fair point that we don't know the exact number of services, but the fact that DTG aren't trumpeting a number for a route this busy IRL is a red flag. I'm less worried about driveable services than lack of AI- i just can't shake the feeling it's gonna be a ghost town.

I guess it boils down to finances no matter what- either it's being rushed out so the revenue hits in their target month/quarter, or they don't have enough funding to do it properly (no reference trip, no local employees, etc).

 

Interesting.

They’ve revealed most, if not all the content that will be coming out in the next couple months. After that… summertime! If DTG follow their two year TSW release rhythm, it would be time for another Rush Hour-like pack.
Maybe they revealed all the DLCs in the near future comparatively early so they can internally focus on announcement and marketing strategies for the summer pack?

 

Certainly not "tie us over" prices...

And I highly doubt flawed development means they're focused on something epic for us...

 

Yeah, finally watching the stream myself, I think the Amtrak and NJT traffic will be fine. They said they can't give an exact number yet as they are still working on it. That does not mean it will be a small number. Of course, they can always disappoint us, but I am not going to make a guess yet. We will see.

But as others have pointed out, the issue mostly is the lack of LIRR and freight. I mean I can understand freight, maybe they plan on doing something with it later that also requires a freight loco with proper signalling. But why not LIRR AI? The stock is already there. No excuse to not include them.

 

Wait so we've Amtrak long distance trains but with wrong coaches?

 

Follow up question, is the Metroliner Cab car limited to Keystone services like IRL?

 

Well yeah, that would kind of be the point. To populate a huge 10+ track station. Doesn't SEHS also include a TGV layer just for it to sometimes appear on one station as AI? Or the Bakerloo Line layer on GWE? Kind of the same thing.

Sounds like a weird issue, other routes never have problem with stationary locos(?). Anyway, will we have static freight cars at least, or not even those, just empty sidings?

 

Is the reason for no LIRR layer related to the reason for no stationary CSX locos as well? As many of us have suggested, just some stationary M7s at the LIRR platforms would make Penn feel more natural and full. Like the full range of SEHS and GWE layers at Victoria, possibly one of the hardest hitting stations in the game performance-wise.

 

That's understandable but with LIRR even if it's only available at Penn Station it will still make it more realistic. But hopefully something can be done before release.

 

This reads like you want players to buy your full (increased) price product and test the new signalling system.

If the signalling system doesn’t work with a busy timetable, you haven’t fixed the issue, you’ve just replaced it with another one.

 

So do we have a "gen8 performance problem" here, which dtg has decided to just cut lirr & csx out gor all platforms?

I think, im finding myself in the position to cut my payining part on this route too. looking forward to the summer sale.

 

Thanks JD, really appreciate you getting back to us with the precise service count so quickly!

 

Matt did say they had room to add more services on last nights stream

 

Yeah nice, let's cut CSX and LIRR layer because of sh*t 8th gen consoles performance, yeah that's really, really smart DTG *facepalm*

 

It's really nice watching in real time DTG say something perfectly reasonable and then watch a bunch of normal people read everything they say in the most bad faith way possible, and then just start making stuff up to boot.

 

It's as if DTG thinks paying customers are their beta testers

 

I'm somewhat reassured by JD's response, although I fear Penn Station and the route overall might have an " empty " feeling without at least some static LIRR and CSX stock.

My question about " Rush Hour " passengers and services was answered directly in the affirmative, so that's encouraging.

I was planning to preorder some of the content, and may still do so. It all really depends on what we see next week in the preview stream.

 

It seems like maybe Joe's ambitious "include everything" timetable has broken some stuff on other routes and they want to be more cautious. That's too bad. Given that I just had to abandon a Metro North train at a red light in Grand Central, I'd rather they get everything working before they add more stuff.

Logistically speaking, it seems like it would be pretty straightforward to throw some LIRR in there going back and forth since they usually use completely different platforms than Amtrak and NJT.

This also shows how desperately we need some kind of Scenario Planner 2.0 that gives us the same options that exist in the real editor and with a normal and more usable UI.

 

So basically only NJT NEC branch is included. All other branch services are out, I will stay away ….. 121 for NJT services …… worst than I thought. The Harlem line has 263 without having the M8.
This is unbelievable

 

Ok, so you have made sure the new signalling system works, but only with the 289 services?

Does that mean it wouldn’t work if it was any busier, hence the timetable, or did you just run out of time and not attempt to add any more?

121 NJT services just sounds criminal, LIRR & Harlem haven’t worked with these low commuter traffic timetables, this is something that has been fed back time and time again. When will you do US content justice?

It seems a massive shame to do New York once again & make the same mistakes with the traffic, once again.

 

And wait actually 82 NJT passenger services and 105 are basically deahead moves….. this is just really insulting to the US content

 

That sounds curious:
On Brighton Main Line, we got Southeastern AI-services that are only visible at London Victoria.
On Kassel-Würzburg, you included extra AI-trains, that can only be visible in a few stations.

Stationary layers have also been present on quite a few routes in the past.

So, is the performance on the route so bad, you could not add those layers?

 

Perhaps it was a limitation in rolling stock as well. NJ Transit doesn't just run alp 46s with multilevel cars. NJ Transit also runs the ARROW 3 EMU, Bombardier Comet 2s and 4s along with Alstom Comet 5s which are somewhat similar to the Metro North Shoreliners and MBTA cars you see in boston sprinter. NJ Transit also uses ALP46A, ALP45DP and ALP45a along with diesel electric trains that don't run to penn station

 

Yeah I get that, but DTG haven’t at all cared about that in the past, infact even this DLC has Amtrak services with the wrong stock?

 

On the BML the used all 377 even for when it was used by the 455 so no . No excuses

 

I'm not serious about these things, so I've already paid for the pre-order.

 

I don't have that much knowledge of the real-life route, but surprised there isn't more playable services in general from what I hear is one of the busiest places in the country. And I certainly wouldn't have imagined that there would of actually have been less NJT services than Amtrak. With NJT being more commuter-focused compared to the longer-distance Amtrak, can anyone clarify if there should have been more NJT services in general out of interest?

 

So the timetable is going to release as it is with no additional layers?

 

There aren't stationary CSX locos in the yards, as we determined they would hamper performance for something which, ultimately, isn't playable it was easier and more cost-effective not to include it than to make a gen 8 and a gen 9/PC version.
Now I think it's more correct.

Because what it's all about is making the maximum amount of money with the least amount of investment possible, of course.

This route smells too much like recycling, they have made it clear that a big part of the route has been copied and pasted from the original NEC New York, they haven't even improved the city skyline. We'll have to see the difference in the scenery to Newark airport, which is 5 years old, and the rest to Trenton. It could be quite shocking. And I guess we'll still be embedding half a metre of train on some platforms at NY Penn, why would they fix it?

The ACS 64 was already built, the metroliner cab car too and the Acela is available to us, but only for a fee. In the end we paid for a whole route for a new train and a new piece of route. Very limited or non-existent layers, lack of static stock.... Mmmmm, what looked like the eighth wonder on Sunday now looks like a meh.

But don't forget to drop the nice phrase that there is a possibility that more services will be included in the future, followed by the fact that it is not a promise and that there are no plans to make it happen.

I don't rule out buying it at full price but on Sunday there was a 100% chance and now it has dropped to 20%. I'd have to be really shocked by the preview to checkout.

 

Metro Exodus/Krest voice: "And I thought it would be pretty hardcore to drive the M7A on New York-Trenton bratukha". "Boy what a fool I was".

 

Is no LIRR due to performance?

 

I’m really going to have to see a preview of this, because currently it sounds like this timetable is missing a fair bit of services. If there’s 82 NJT services, that sounds like only the services to and from Trenton are represented. Surely there has to be the trains to Long Branch as well. Surely!

 

Imagine if you they would had release the BML with only the Gatwick Express and services to just Brighton with nothing else……. I know I’m comparing apples and oranges but still. I’m actually shocked by the amount of services we are actually getting with the NEC-NY to Trenton

 

Extreme optimism.

 

But the point is we US fans just want for once a realistic US Route. This route has the stock for it and it's not being taken advantage of. You guys released Harlem Line with with no new trains and missing traffic. LIRR never got fixed and Boston Sprinter pretty good. This route has a chance on being the best one but that opportunity is being shot down as usual when it comes to US content. We only asking for at least 1-2 layers for the route which isn't much. Makes no sense that LIRR gets kicked off of its home route too.

 

Performance issues are probably stemming from the fact that DTG have ripped up chunks of old DLC’s and slapped them into this route, DTG have said themselves they way they used to build routes was an issue & that new methods were more economical. I’m guessing this is one of the main causes of performance woes.

 

Thats what am starting think. Maybe it's the old part of the route that's being used that's preventing it. They probably never optimized these areas since they decide to not build it from scrap

 

Having read what JD said was included, it sounds off the top of my head, that all or nearly all real Amtrak trains are present in the timetable.

I decided to check the latest NJT NEC line timetable here: https://content.njtransit.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/rail/2022/07/240044/nec.pdf
JD said it would include mainly 31XX, 37XX, 38XX and 39XX series trains which are the main weekday NEC Line trains. Using that criteria, I counted roughly 65 eastbound trains to NYP. Didn't count westbound but if we assume its about the same that's 130 weekday NEC revenue trains, compared to JD's 82.

The most glaring omission from the NJT timetable would be the trains numbered 32XX and 35XX on that timetable I linked. These are North Jersey Coast Line trains that run the NEC from NYP to Rahway where they diverge to the Coast Line. These could have easily been added to the timetable drive-able only as far as Rahway like has been down on numerous other routes' timetables. They still run up to 45 minutes on the route as in TSW so they would be a valuable addition. Without checking the Coast Line schedule, I think there are some expresses which only stop at Newark on the NEC and express to a point on the Coast Line that are not depicted on this particular timetable PDF.

Besides that, there are other NJT lines that join the NEC at Newark or between Newark and NYP. Some or all of these would be mainly suited to AI only services to fill the area west of NYP. And that's not going in to LIRR trains from the other direction that would also fill AI slots.

So, the NJT timetable, even if we just take NEC Line trains in to account, is definitely coming up short. Add in other lines (even if AI) and that number grows exponentially. I'm not sure what the actual number of NJT services in NYP on a typical weekday would be, but it would definitely be several hundred both directions. The real question is could TSW handle all of them, even as AI? Who knows. We've seen routes with more than 289 playable services before, and more AI. On this route every service, AI or player, would visit NYP so maybe that's a factor in performance since they're not spread out along the route more.

All in all definitely a stingy player timetable. I'd like to see the FULL NEC line weekday timetable and at least some Coast Line Trains to Rahway. In my opinion that would be a reasonable compromise in terms of realism vs sim performance compared to what know timetables can do in the sim.

 

We know the game can handle the amount and more. Just look at BML 4800+ SEHS 2400+
Bremen 1100+ bakerloo 800+ and others with near 1000+ services if you add the AI services…..

 

Not MARC, SEPTA. MARC is around Baltimore-Washington.

 

Brandon already corrected me, I never edited my original post.