Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by TripleJ814, Feb 9, 2023.

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  1. I find the issues to not be a big deal, and it’s fine the way everything is

    17.1%
  2. I find the issues to be ridiculous and DTG needs to address this

    76.5%
  3. I have a differing opinion - it would be nice if you could reply to the thread explaining why

    6.4%
  1. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

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    We should just refer to this as the “Penn curse” at this point

    This is the third time New York Penn will be in TSW, and the timetable is always a flop.
     
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  2. Kobebeef

    Kobebeef Active Member

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    Its a story that has been repeated for years at DTG, unfinished underpar DLC released. I was right seems nothing has changed, When will we learn? keep coming back to bang your head on the table lol
     
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  3. Ant Craft

    Ant Craft Well-Known Member

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    Have to respectfully disagree with that tbh. New York Penn is pretty mediocre in TSW imo. Having been to it's real life counterpart, there's lots of areas it could see improvement. A lot of this can be seen in this video that was linked earlier in the thread,
    but also in one of the images I took while I was there myself:
    [​IMG]
    I'm not trying to seek perfection, but I think it's quite a ways off from how it is irl. And in addition to that, that picture I took was from 2018, so I'm sure it's likely changed more since. Compare that to what we have from the LIRR, which looks too bright (as in the concrete and materials used that is) and clean for a start, but also quite bland and generic in areas if you ask me. Maybe I could overlook that if Penn was full to the brim with a timetable that has all the services in it, cause you'd be more focused on the trains than the station itself, but either way, I think they could do quite a bit better when it comes to NY Penn. That being said though, we're all entitled to our own opinions, so if you think that it's pretty good as it is, then that's fair enough, but personally I think it could see much more improvement.
     
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  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Using the UK PIS is really inexcusable. If time was a constraint better to have gone with a static placeholder and throw the route back at the builder/3D modeller to get the correct system in. Or better still, this should have been white boarded at the start. Surely during the several months this was in development someone in the studio could have produced the correct system. Or are they that lacking in talent these days? Not good enough for £30, combined with all the other red flags.
     
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  5. bartolomaeusz

    bartolomaeusz Well-Known Member

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    Since there is STILL NO pricing information on Steam, I will be waiting but I am interested in the Acela and the UP heritage pack. If we have to wait a while for NEC to get patched, what's new?
     
  6. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    The Acela and UP heritage pack will also need patches :D
     
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  7. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Brand new loco NJT getting 41 passenger service each way from /to Penn station…..still can’t get over it. Insulting. I think is the worst representation on any route besides another US route the LIRR route. Hiding the route with a bundle release. Smart on their part.
     
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  8. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    Funny thing about this image is I generally buy DLCs I want to have when they are discounted at least -35% off (and with the new pricing it will be likely -50% off). :P
     
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  9. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    I been at Penn Station multiple times and I can say it definitely not accurate. It's missing so much details. I think lighting of station might off as well. The fact that they didnt even bother to update the NY scenery is just unacceptable. They are reusing a good chunk of the route and your telling me they didn't have to time to even update the scenery. Looks like train simulator is gonna still have the best and most detailed NY scenery.

    Matt told me no LIRR layer planned for release and perhaps in the future. So sadly we gonna have a route with no layers just the acela. As usual flopping on US content.
     
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  10. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    I am not gonna lie, I'm still gonna buy this b/c I a fan of NEC(Rather say that than lie to you all and say I won't buy it), butttt I like how everyone is raising very much hell, imo they need to Postpone this route from Release until they do this route justice oh wait this won't happen cause this is DTG for crying out loud. And British PIS on American Routes oh boy I cant wait for another "This service has 8 cars and is ran by insert Train Company", Inexcusable. I hope that they do more DLC tho for this route cause belive it or not yes I see a hell of a lot of potential for this route(Arrow III, ALP-45DP+ An Extension to Bay Head/Long Branch and Comet Cars as well and substitution options for usage on both routes and Multilevels on Both routes as well) But other than that I really like the Models that are coming
     
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  11. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Really nice coincidence, this video has the loco with the TSW2 livery! Does anyone know if it’s still around or if they’ve taken the stickers off by now?
     
  12. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    The pricing is in the article for the super mega bundle. That's the price you'll see on steam on the individual dlc
     
  13. porawit

    porawit Member

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    Stop complaining and give them time to fix it. I continue to buy it. even if something is missing
     
  14. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Note the key words "perhaps in the future". Dangle the carrot of hope yet again.
     
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  15. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Often times it's just fix certain things and move on to the next product over and over again. Also, American passenger content is always half baked. So excuse us if some here are tired of the DTG flywheel of half baked U.S passenger content
     
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  16. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with your choice to gobble things up on day one. But just as your choice to buy, it's also another person's choice to voice their opinion. DTG does prefer you as a customer though. Blindly buying on faith.
     
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  17. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. The bundle release is very smart on their part, they get to mask how crap this route is going to turn out by blinding everyone into preordering a “US SUPER BUNDLE!!!” With fancy marketing pictures.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2023
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  18. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    I think we deserve to get are voices heard at this point after so many years of US fans not getting the same treatment as UK & German fans. It always seems like they don't put alot of time into US routes but somehow UK and German get alot of time for details,layers etc.
     
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  19. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Exa
    Exactly what I was going to say. That’s the customer they love. Just buy content blindly . We are still waiting for The LIRR to get a new timetable. We are still waiting for the fix they had promised even before TSW3 on Harlem and still waiting for the fix for the missing services on Peninsula Corridor.
     
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  20. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

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    Yep and supposedly even Matt wants our feedback, yet it’s never listened to it seems (at least regarding US content)
    We complain time and time again about the British PIS, and it’s still here. JD and Matt have avoided all questions related to why it’s being reused all the time.

    DTG’s communication, and listening to community feedback needs to significantly improve. It did improve for a short while from when the roadmap first came out till about early 2021, wonder what happened there.

    not sure why this route can’t have a half decent timetable either, not to mention its reusing 6 year old scenery from TSW’s early days.
     
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  21. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, to be fair, UK fans, at least, have had a lot to complain about with recent releases, like SOS, BCC and ( Rivet's ) E to G which have been pretty bare bones, lacking in playable and AI traction, with missing route contents and graveyard terminuses.

    I think this minimalist approach has been fairly typical of TSW since Rush Hour.

    The last route to receive anything approaching a full timetable and multiple trains was BML 2 years ago. And even that route still does not have Rush Hour passengers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2023
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  22. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    It’s ridiculous. When Boston Sprinter was previewed, Matt asked for source material of the US PIS on that route. I believe a lot of material was provided, yet here we are with the UK PIS design still being used. It’s really poor and I can see why fans of American content (myself included) feel like a poor distant relation to the UK & German content.

    I will likely buy this route, but as it stands it must be heavily discounted. No longer interested in getting a route on day one - ScotRail E>G might have been an exception but it was way too flawed.
     
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  23. lux#4689

    lux#4689 Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling, that we can be happy, that we have people at DTG, who go the extra mile for UK and German routes, and even sometimes use their spare time to finish some stuff.
     
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  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Agree. The worst thing is the apologists who blindly refuse to acknowledge valid criticism. DTG are not a charity or doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They are a business who are actually charging a bloody stiff price now for a piece of content. They need to be doing it better and they need to be doing it right.
     
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  25. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Well-Known Member

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    I got one better how bout Rapid Transit also had another timetable redone for 2021 and that came out BEFORE LIRR....Like I said DTG loves making excuses and all for us passenger content OR they simply don't do their homework and wanted to put out half crap dlcs to shut us up. And then think they did a good job...original NEC from tsw2020 TRASH....LIRR=Trash attempt....MNRR= not good as an attempt and now this one...REALLY Wack.........and heck even GWR has a 1972 tube static train layer jus sitting at a no complete part of the I think called West Ealing or Ealing Broadway???..but yet they Dovefail games think they slick thinking that adding jus the Acela in the NY-TRENTON going to solve their problems..As well as reuse or copy and paste part of the Penn Station and Harold Interlocking from previous dlcs and all..LAZY!!!!
     
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  26. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    A553A9B1-B25B-4F4F-967F-3A840D0EE136.png 475758E5-A6FB-480D-BE28-08D3DDBDBC7E.png A553A9B1-B25B-4F4F-967F-3A840D0EE136.png A553A9B1-B25B-4F4F-967F-3A840D0EE136.png Just look at the other routes and how many services they have. These all include all AI and player services……… these are actual numbers DTG provided back in November. The BML are actually even higher now after they added the extra freight services
     
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  27. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Well-Known Member

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    That's actually a bad thing. They really shouldn't be working for free, no matter how dedicated they are. I'm just going to take a guess here and assume Matt & the other producers don't want their people using spare time to improve the game.

    What should actually happen is that they see the player feedback on the great timetables on certain routes and devote budget to creating suitable timetables on all new content. Failing that, they need to invest in cloning technology so Joe has time to work multiple projects simultaneously.
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, for US routes we/they do have Brandon (Cactusjuice), who has put in a huge amount of passion working out signaling and safety systems. But his brief doesn't extend to timetabling or scenery.
     
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  29. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Compare to the other routes,the US content has the least about of services collectively compare to the other routes by a large percentage. So if you look at Sursee with 290 it matches what the NEC Trenton to NY since no mention of AI services yet.
     
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  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It’s a shame in some ways Run 8 don’t expand more into NE passenger territory and update their game for more realistic passenger operations. They nailed SoCal and Florida/Georgia freight so they could provide sn effective competitor to DTG in that respect.
     
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  31. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    We seriously need a route/scenario/timetable editor now - all of the issues above wouldn't be much of a problem if we could go in and fix/edit/create ourselves, just like TSC. Just think about how much more content we'd have by now if we had an editor 2 or so years ago.

    It's rather unfair we're not/never getting them.
     
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  32. Ant Craft

    Ant Craft Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, agreed. And of course, it's not just Penn that needs work. Sunnyside also needs major work, especially given it's more built up now iirc, and the NY skyline could do with some extra fleshing out too. I think Newark Penn could also use some work too, cause iirc, it could've had better textures and detailing. Newark Liberty and Secaucus (will finally have a role without rogue Amtrak services stopping there lmao) where pretty decent from what I remember, but could probably do with an extra polish since they are almost half a decade old now (makes me feel old lmao). I think what might be even worse for the route is that any flaws from the old sections of routes are going to be amplified when you put it right next to new stuff - you're going to notice where the old becomes new and vice versa.

    Also to add-on to others about the PIS, I just find seeing something so recognisable to me as a UK player really annoying and even cringe to see plastered over every US passenger route. It's how I felt since it's introduction on the LIRR. If they didn't have the reference for it, then I'd understand, but as others have rightly stated, they've been given plenty of reference already from the sounds of it, and LGV received it's own custom PIS for what has so far been a one off (although I'd very much like that to change in the future). So it only seems logical to dedicate some time to making something at least remotely resemble American PIS. Ofc, I doubt the same PIS is used everywhere, and it'd be good to have something custom per route, but we definitely something more US at the very least.
     
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  33. juliplus#6089

    juliplus#6089 Active Member

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    After reading all the recent posts here I have to admit i feel bad for the American Community. You have been let down several times. I think I might skip the route i was really interested in this one but my god it seems like dtg has done a terrible job there
     
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  34. Jayhuncho

    Jayhuncho New Member

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    Lack of LIRR traffic in penn station shouldn’t even be a topic of discussion. The LIRR is the busiest commuter rail road in America, there needs to be AI traffic. On top of that, those of us who not only bought LIRR but also payed for the M3 as well should most definitely have ai service around NYP & sunnyside. Something like this, such an easy fix. Please do not disappoint us on this.
     
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  35. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Well-Known Member

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    Too late at the moment...they giving us(US content) half baked routes and gone fill with excuses of the lazy and lame attempt of this. Can't have hopes at DTG for US passenger dlcs, they never deliver lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2023
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  36. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    Yep and they are making a big deal for LIRR AI Trains just to run in and out of Tunnels
     
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  37. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Yet the southeastern got the 385 and 465 services just at Victoria because is an UK route, Bremen got through freight and passenger services. Dresden Chemnitz got 1000+ services at Dresden…… on and on….US gets a middle finger
     
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  38. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Well-Known Member

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    Meanwhile Hamburg-Luebeck(didn't spell that right) has Millions of ai layers in and out of Hamburg..u have Southeastern services in and out of London Victoria and freight layers...Even Bakerloo has many ai freight layers scattered and even a ai steam rail tour via the WCML.......and yet we can't even get a LIRR ai layers in and out of Penn but there are supposingly in a scenario....but I remember when LIRR despite it sucked on all levels didn't have any layers for Amtrak except two scenarios of static trains parked lol...terrible...they even input LGV in Southeastern high speed route.
     
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  39. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    Good comparison between TSC and TSW, although there are many more true-to-the-original 3D buildings in TSC, the lighting of the scenery in TSW still looks more realistic thanks to the Unreal Engine. TOD4 will also revamp the whole thing. The question why the scenery was not beefed up like in TSC may be due to the current TSW LIRR version. I think that NY-Trenton and LIRR should have been upgraded equally to achieve a unified Sunnyside Yard standard. But this would probably have been too much effort given the tight DTG schedules and the simultaneous work on other routes. However, one should never say never... ;)
     
  40. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    I appreciate the praise. But please don't think of me as the guy that'll fix all US content. I do have timetable experience but will not touch scenery.
     
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  41. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I’m trying to understand why the US content is always mediocre. Why can’t we have authentic looking routes within the US. We should get same quality as our British and German friends. We share the same passion. I want to keep supporting DTG. I know they are capable of making great content.
     
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  42. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I believe Matt did say that the original part of the route is being polished up. He also answered my question about getting the catenary upgraded to the TSW3 standard. Those are WIP screenshots, we don't know how long ago they were taken.
     
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  43. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Whilst it is a shame the timetable may not be so busy as it should/could have been, we haven't actually seen what it looks like yet, nor what the route looks like. It might be a lot better than many are assuming at the moment.
     
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  44. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I agree. At least hold your judgment until you see it.
     
  45. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

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    That is true,
    However, even if the timetable may feel busy with NJT and Amtrak, Penn Station and Sunnyside Yard area will still feel dead with the lack of LIRR. If you scroll up in this thread, there are videos of around sunnyside, and it's one of, if not the most busiest interlocking in the USA, and there's a lot of LIRR action going on.

    Penn Station and Sunnyside area will not feel alive without LIRR. And it's odd how Germany and Britian can get all these "special" layers that you wouldn't see commonly, yet Trenton can't even get the realistic trains you'd see.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2023
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  46. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I'm not really up on my US route/trains knowledge but after reading this thread I now know that I'll hold off buying this until I know what it's really life, which may result in no purchase at all.
     
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  47. wsor4005

    wsor4005 Member

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    Yeah its sad too when you think back to the way they used to do US routes, all the little cool features we had, like the animated bells, having to open cut levers, I think the last route DTG cared about when it comes to US content was Peninsula Corridor, they took reference trips, and overall I think did a great job on the route, and I feel every route since has been a significant downgrade, Missing accelerometers, missing distance counters, Broken cab signals, Broken signals in general, and not a care to fix stuff, 2 hump yards but no way to use them, literally not a single actual local job in the game, took us over a year to get the horn for the Clinchfeild SD40 we were promised, after they sold it to us with the CSX stealth unit, broken sounds in almost every route, broken horn loops, and look at the condition of Peninsula Corridor today, took the best route and completely destroyed it, and now they cant even give us a good timetable or Port the buildings from TSC into TSW to make the skyline not look horrid with the same buildings we looked at for 5 years? I honestly think ive lost faith in DTG to make a good, or even okay product, and I always wished they would do my home route from TSC, the racetrack in TSW, but now I hope they dont as I know it would be a disgrace to the real thing. Shame really.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2023
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  48. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Emtpy stations because the rolling stock isnt there, thats something i can live with.

    No services, layers & a.i services where existing rolling stock is available, but doesnt get used is a pretty lazy show.
    On top the "performance" excuse, which i indeed only belief when it comes to gen8.

    My answer to dtg is: im not gonna buy any dlc until summer and will buy all releases of next 5 months on a heavy sale.
    The only day1 exception is tsg content.

    Currently i have all available dlcs, so its not getting repetitive in any way. I reached the point where im certainly am willing to pay a good price, but find myself screwed by dtg with too many shortcuts, rushed releases. So maybe if its even getting worse its probably time to think about future investing in this franchise anyway.
     
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  49. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    That is my biggest gripe with American content in this game. A lot of video games are situated in either a realistic America or fantasy versions of the Americas. As a European I can't distinguish a realistic version from a made up version. But when I play a DTG version of the USA it doesn't resemble anything like that. It looks like the most basic version you could make of something that resembles for example New York. I remember looking at the promotion material for the Harlem line and playing the game and thinking of the Atari days where you had to use your imagination to fill in the scenery with what was promised by the cover art.

    My first experience with DTG's American content was Boston Sprinter and my first impression of Rush Hour on the platforms looking at the (absence of) train traffic was "Americans are known to prefer cars over public transport so maybe this Is realistic?" :D
     
  50. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    After getting back into Run 8 last night having similar thoughts. In truth the only forthcoming DLC that might be a Day 1 purchase was the Peak District steam but even that seems a bit lackadaisical with no explanation forthcoming as to why the route finishes in the middle of nowhere rather than going to Derby.
     
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