Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

I feel the same way.

I've defended DTG in the past, but there comes a point where enough is enough, and I'm honestly starting to get sick with this bull****. I was really looking forward to NY-T but now I'm just feeling very disappointed.

Now on the flip side, Brandon has basically said in the TSC Discord that the Acela is top-notch, so I might just pick that up and enjoy Boston some more instead, however, I still want to see the preview stream beforehand.

I really hope this thread (having 300 messages and counting, and almost 10000 views in just a few days) sparks some discussion internally, and I hope they rethink NY-Trenton and add the LIRR layers as a bare minimum. The PIS is a shame too, however, I'm hoping with the backlash in this thread the next USA Passenger route will finally have something authentic.

 

Couple of years good with you?

 

Honestly I feel the same way at this point, I was excited when I heard about it and now I'm just disappointed, The sky line is so bad, its literally 2 buildings that have been in the game since Sand Patch Grade, no layers and bad timetable.

 

Honestly it’d be better if they delayed the launch and add LIRR layers and scenery assets from the TS Classic version of LIRR route around Sunnyside. This route is just going to get dumped with negative steam reviews otherwise.

and honestly who cares if it makes DTG look bad for hyping up the US SUPER DUPER BUNDLE just to delay it. they dug themselves into this hole to begin with.

 

Delay it for however long it takes for people to say yeah, that's a day one purchase now they've addressed our concerns.

 

On one hand, it's great to hear tiny insights like these, from members who had participated in development. On the other hand, it's quite saddening to hear that even said members feel like things are being rushed.

Makes me wonder if the rest of DTG simply does not care and not see the issue, or they do see it but decide to ignore it because money is more important? Obviously I don't know DTG's monetary status, but I can't imagine them struggling money wise, when they have the whole revenue stream of TSC behind them and they clearly seem to be a growing company.

So do they just not care? They think it's alright, the stupid US fans will buy the half-finished product anyway? All the nerds will buy another iteration of the same game anyway, let's just re-release again?

 

I think they do, but ultimately those above the devs are more concerned with the bottom line and the backlash to this is directed at those below.

 

I usually don't like DLC getting delayed but honestly for this DLC I don't care. Clearly needs so much work done. I would rather them push the release date for this to improve what they need to improve such as the missing LIRR AI Services. CSX layers and to fix the scenery. They can literally use Train Simulator as reference for the scenery which shouldn't be hard at all. I like how they say the future of train sim world yet still doing the same thing.

 

When it comes to US content I don’t trust any promises that once it comes they will fix anything.
Just look at their record when it comes to the US content getting fix after they have their money…..
This time they are not getting my money until I see it worth getting it

 

Wow. So apparently a large number of Train Sim World players and DTG aren’t on the same track (pun intended).
These are my thoughts on it (could be TLR):

1. I'm disappointed at the lack of Morrisville Yard. It's how NJT turns 99.9% of their trains that terminate at Trenton and it's literally RIGHT across the bridge into PA. It might even be closer than NYP to Sunnyside. I haven't seen Morrisville Yard up close, but I don't think it's as expansive as Sunnyside. So the fact that's not included is mind boggling. I'm not mad at DTG, I'm just disappointed & confused with that. It's super important to NJT in real life, so idk why they would omit that. I imagined the DLC would go to “MORRIS” Interlocking and then it would say “You have reached the end of the represented area.” Guess not.

Here’s a series of photos of Morrisville Yard by John P. Almeida from 2004:

• http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW040111.3.html

2. SEPTA isn't an option due to DTG's lack of licensing, that's fine. I initially didn't care for the lack of LIRR as the DLC is NY - Trenton. However, it was weird for DTG to mention LIRR is included in scenarios but not timetables. Like why have them in one & not the other? They don't have to be playable. That's just weird to me. I wonder if West Side Yard will make an appearance, or if it'll just be a dark wall of nothingness like in TSW 2020 NEC.

3. I don't play too many of the European routes, but it appears that the DTG team puts way more TLC (tender loving care for those unaware) into those routes. The consensus is if the European routes have a ton of services and layers, why not this route in particular? I was initially indifferent to this, as I only cared about NJT & Amtrak. Now I concur with the masses. As a resident of Yonkers, NY named Jadakiss once said “Why?”

3. DTG said the area around NYP is well lit.
Well, I hope so. In TSW 2020's NEC it was PITCH BLACK.
I've been there in real life many times and it's LIT (slight pun).

4. There will be Amtrak services stopping at Princeton Jct & New Brunswick which is nice.
Also there are playable NJT services to & from Jersey Ave. (NJT’s 37xx trains). Hopefully the Jersey Ave platforms are LOW LEVEL.

5. The Acela's inclusion was bound to disappoint. 99% of Acelas skip Trenton, and not many stop at Metropark.
Which could mean that most, if not all of the services will end at NWK or MET, and the AI will comically boot you from the seat.
But if DTG didn't include the Acela, many would complain. So it was a lose-lose situation.
I'm not bothered by it. I just see how the Acela was unfortunately not going to work out for the best for this stretch for many.

6. The lack of LD cars isn't the end of the world for me. It would be nice, but it's not a deal breaker.
Same with freight ON the NEC. It's rare to see freight on that stretch. As in ON the NEC. I know there are a few near Hunter interlocking, but they’re not always ON NEC tracks. It's there, but hard to catch.
As long as DTG doesn’t have ACS-64s running on non-electrified rails WITH their pans up, (*cough cough Lake Shore Limited on Boston Sprinter*) I’m cool with it. I am baffled at how Amtrak appears to have MORE services than NJT. I’m not for the NJCL to South Amboy or MidTown Direct Trains to Newark Broad Street.
But I think including those to Rahway & Secaucus respectively, would be a great idea, especially the former since Rahway is a good distance from NYP. It would be nice to see NJT trains diverging from & joining the NEC at Union interlocking, even if it’s only in scenarios.

7. I don’t know what goes into the making of PIS systems, but it’s hard to understand why they’re inaccurate after all this time.
It’s not a make or break for me. But it does make me wonder.

Will this DLC be everything I want? Probably not. Will I enjoy it? As long as it is BETTER than TSW2020, Yes.
I would like to imagine this thread puts a ton of pressure on DTG to deliver on their upcoming gameplay live stream of this route.
The majority of responses in this thread was similar to how Canadians reacted during the Montreal Screwjob.

 

The acela does have 45 services so it's quite a bit to play with. They probably made every acela service stop at trenton even if it's rare just so you can use more acela.

 

Hopefully the ACS-64 does not stop at secaucus as in TSW2020

 

Spot on and for the screwjob that is Oakville Subdivision route. If DTG wants to make Hunter Interlocking busy then add in Raritan Valley Line ALP-45DP if made for TSW 3 my mom has done NY Penn Station to Annandale (I-78 Exit 18) trips it's the 10:48pm out of NY Penn Station

 

THIS! I was befuddled at the station stop in TSW 2020. Amtrak doesn't serve that station. The most you MIGHT see is an Amtrak train held up at a signal, but they DO NOT SERVE Secaucus. Also, that scenario was weird. Essentially I think a doubleheader Regional passes your train between EWR & NWK. Gets held up at NWK. Then you're forced to stop at Secaucus to wait for the train that passed you in the first place to pass you again. It was one of the oddest scenarios ever. It wasn't a bad experience, just unrealistic and nonsensical.

 

I'm fine with Hunter being deserted and the lack of RVL trains. It would be a nice touch for sure, but it's not necessary to me.
Besides, I doubt DTG would make a locomotive for a US route that would essentially only be for display. They didn't make P42s for the Lake Shore Limited in Boston Sprinter, so I don't see them making the ALP-45 for this route. I'll be surprised if ANYTHING is on track 5 at NWK.

I still can't stop laughing at whoever thought it was a good idea to make the Lake Shore Limited train run un-electrified with the pans up.
I remember in TSW 2020, if you took the switch near Long Island City on LIRR that didn't have 3rd rail, your train lost power.
Meanwhile the DTG ACS-64s run on *drumroll* magic. Ok let me stop poking too much fun .
Maybe Amtrak should invest in DTG's ACS-64s for their routes that go south of WAS. Ok I'm done for real this time. Don't hurt me.

 

Yeah, but then people will complain not that many Acelas stop at Trenton and write raging dissertations on the lack of realism DTG has with American routes. I personally don't echo the raging sentiment, but I concur with the inaccuracy. I'll still play the game though.

 

That isn't a barrier sadly, there are many cases in TSW where nonsensical and unrealistic things occur.

It isn't just US routes that suffer, we might get nice layers in the UK on routes like BML but we also have completely unrealistic layers on the WCL route, the "gameplay" pack called diesel legends on the GWML and now this new steam route which starts in a very odd location which won't aid realistic "game play" and so far it seems a branch line passenger train which should appear on the route is either a) not going to there or b) represented by something totally unrealistic.

I do understand the frustrations of USA train fans. When something you are excited for comes along, there is often something which spoils it.

 

I know i been asking them before and they don't reply. They should already be using the correct color PIS System on the Harlem Line as well, but No, they decided to use the wrong PIS System and an easy way out.

 

I know that why i was so surprise and angry when Matt said they are going to reuse the old penn station layout, Time have change already. Not only that but they even mess up the Grand Central Terminal as well, cause it look nothing like it, especially the lighting is horrible nothing like the real terminal. They are always finding a way easy out, which is wrong.

 

One other thing. I saw a few comments complaining about Harold Interlocking not featuring the Grand Central Madison tracks.

For a while Harold probably didn't even know who Harold was (yes I personified a railroad interlocking).
That interlocking was under construction for what felt like an eternity.
It would've been great to feature the updated version. But given LIRR literally started revenue service not even a full month ago (started Jan 25), and won't have full service until late February (after this DLC releases), I don't see how it would be realistic to include it since it's so recent.
I don't think an 'under development" Harold would be ideal for a "finished" game. Just my opinion.

At best, I think it would be cool if DTG included the new LIRR yard in Sunnyside just for the visual aspect, but that's about it.
I hope more approaches to the East River Tunnels are used from Queens to Penn & the reverse to Sunnyside Yards.
TSW 2020's NEC only used Line 4 westbound I believe. There are quite a few trains exiting the Yard that also use Line 3.
That's the track close to the Hunterspoint Ave LIRR station if I'm correct.

 

All though its fictional, I rather have that than barely being able to use it at all on this route

 

On this specific point, I don’t know if it’s been officially addressed… but I’d almost bet my money that they will make all Acelas playable for the entire route but add a stop at Trenton as the end point. Even if the real life service skips Trenton they will make it stop there as the end point for gameplay purposes.

Of course that’s just my speculation but it would be in line with what they do in other routes.

 

Ultimately I am fairly certain it's because the Top Men- well above the devs' paygrade, well above Matt P's - decree for each fiscal year that "There shalt be a route release on Day X, Day Y, Day Z..." What gets released is whatever can be developed by that deadline, whether it's complete, accurate, debugged, or none of the above. Paul Jackson is ex-EA, and at EA product release dates are carved in stone.

TBH, we stand a better chance from third parties, because they seem to have much more scheduling flexibility. Of course, their quality is often TBD. TSG superb, Rivet not so much. I think Skyhook are getting better and better with each successive release- and then we have the new outfits coming on line.
This may well come to mirror TSC, where in general DTG's offerings aren't as good as the better third parties.

 

That let me further know DTG didn't do their hw, I remember that scenario I was like AMTRAK DOESNT STOP THERE....ohhh and not to forget they had amtrak use the east rive tunnel from Harold Interlocking to Penn Station on the LIRR tunnel side..I was like, yea they don't care smfh.

 

You are correct anything in reality the way you can tell apart if a Northeast Corridor train has a ALP-45DP check to see if you have eight double-decker coaches behind the loco if yes then ALP-45DP. On the Raritan Valley Line these are seen with 6 double decker MLV I-II in the future MLV I-III 6 of them since multi-level power cars are only used on electric territory.
Video of ALP-45DP to Trenton

 

MARC is Maryland, Septa runs between Trenton and Philly

 

You are correct and if that were to happen the question is how would the development team make ACS-64 901-915 SEPTA with Comet II-IV coaches. What they can do the easy option is take the existing Northeast Corridor version and reskin it from Amtrak to SEPTA paint like the 182s being simply reskinned and parts modified from Rapid Transit version. Comet II-IVs scratch built and missing The Restroom Car which is used on the NJ Transit side of the route NEC Trenton New Brunswick NY Penn Station. SEPTA Comet II-IVs can be reskinned to NJ Transit paint and restroom cars added

 

Or since septa awhile back did have the old NJT comet set, you could slide and reskin the Boston coaches. I mean it'll do

 

You are the 3rd person to point that out....


I should really fix my original comment....

 

They say good things come in threes...
That's what I heard at least.

 

If the trains still clip the platforms, it’ll be an obvious cut and paste job.

 

Yeah, I agree. I hoped they'd have redone NYP and upgraded Newark Penn at least. Secaucus is pretty decent already, but could maybe do with some extra detailing, and Liberty is pretty good. So it's really Penn that's the biggest issue with me, furthered by the fact I've been to it irl ofc. As for the rest of the scenery on NEC NY, I think it's pretty decent. The NY skyline could definitely do with improvements, and there's definitely room for improvement in some areas, and catenary could do with some improvements to bring it in line with TSW 3 standards, which it sounds like DTG could be doing, but will be waiting to see it in the preview personally. I know people have said some things are missing, but I don't know the area that well to say for myself if that's the case. But my main issues with the route is:
- Timetable
- NY Penn scenery
- Sunnyside scenery (would be nice to see ESA, but honestly, this one probably matters least to me that the other issues - would say it's more important if there was LIRR ai or if it gets added)
- Lack of Multilevel II cab car previews so far (hope this is addressed via a picture in an article or in the preview)
- Lack of NJT Morrisville Yard (Lot's of missed potential for services and gameplay opportunities)

Sounds like a good idea, cause it's definitely confused a few people now XD

 

They already confirmed total of 290 services which 100+ are yard and dead head moves leaving a lack luster passenger timetable.lots of services missing for NJT. No freight, no LIRR. All This has been confirmed by Matt and JD. They are doing one preview for 3 DLCs this Thursday for a release the following Tuesday…. Then to the next DLC…….repeat cycle.

 

That doesn't sound as good.

I think sometimes with DTG they do as little as they can get away with, that is why we often have straight linear routes, rarely with branches or routes ending in odd places. I do understand they work to a budget which companies must but it seems quite constraining.

Sometimes they bring out a route like the Brighton Mainline and you think well this is a good portent for the future but it doesn't last.

 

As a refresher, here's what DTG JD stated regarding the timetable services.
It's on Page 3 of this thread:

• There are 289 total playable services on the route on release, broken down as follows (SSY = Sunnyside Yard):
  • Amtrak (total 123 services)
    • Amtrak Northeast Regionals: 37
    • Amtrak Keystones: 21
    • Amtrak Silver Meteor: 2
    • Amtrak Vermonter: 2
    • Amtrak Crescent: 2
    • Amtrak Pennsylvanian: 2
    • Amtrak Silver Star: 2
    • Amtrak Carolinian: 2
    • Amtrak Cardinal: 2
    • Amtrak Palmetto: 2
    • Amtrak Deadheads to/from SSY: 49
  • NJT services (total 121 services)
    • NJT Including but not limited to service types 31XX, 37XX, 38XX, 39XX and deadheads not visiting SSY: 82
    • NJT Deadheads to/from SSY: 39
  • Amtrak's Acela services (total 45 services):
    • Amtrak Acela: 32
    • Amtrak Acela Deadheads to/from SSY: 13
• There is no LIRR layer - these would be only available at NY Penn Station.
• There aren't stationary CSX locos in the yards, as we determined they would hamper performance for something which, ultimately, isn't playable.
• All players (8th- or 9th-gen) will receive the full timetable

I wonder if the deadheads are simply moves from NYP to Sunnyside. I think that's the case, especially for Amtrak.
Maybe, just MAYBE there might be NJT deadheads from Trenton to NY & Vice Versa as well.
I wish there were some from & to Morrisville, but that's not an option.

I hope the 39xx NJT trains use tracks 2 & 3 where possible instead of just running express on 1 & 4.

 

I would really be interested in a comparison of how this will perform and how well made Trenton would do given it would need more resources. There's a bunch of people here who have gone from "hell yeah" to "nah" based on the information about the DLC, so I wonder if the math would really benefit DTG to take the DLCs seriously.

 

Thank you for the reminder…… in reality we have 188 passenger services of which some of those on the NJT are deadheads that don’t go into sunnyside yard……. Pathetic of a Busiest NEC section….. just pathetic…….

 

Thanks. I'm not familiar with the inner workings of NJT.
But as someone who has rode trains on that stretch of the NEC for over 20 years, it's not super uncommon to see equipment moves from Morrisville to MMC, NYP, or to wherever they go.

The Metro North DLC had a bunch of equipment moves (albeit they CONSTANTLY put you behind locals instead of bypass tracks).
But they were actually cool positioning moves. The NY - Trenton DLC deadheads will probably just be loops through Sunnyside.
Which is cool, but it's a bit of a let down. But, we'll see for sure when the DLC releases.

I'm hopeful, I'll enjoy the DLC. Mainly for the sentimental value. But like many, I wish they added more to it.
Oh well. Just don't give me TSW 2020 NEC Part 2 and we're good.

 

It seems

This phenomenon only seems to occur with the US content. BML, SEHS, Dresden, Bremen,Chemnitz,Wuzburg, Wuppertal, Duisburg, Hamburg,Bakerloo,Kohl,ECW….. seemed not to have those constraints. Now I know some of those routes didn’t start out that way but this is TSW3 we are in. they know that the US content has always been at the bottom compare to the UK and Germany. Those are facts that they can’t hide….

 

If the route and services terminate at Trenton, it would have made a lot of sense to have included Morrisville Yard. Then we could have had movements between the Yard and the Transit Center which would have made the NJT services more complete.

There's no explaining the shortsighted thinking that omitted this and other features, except to conclude that DTG doesn't care too much for US railfans or takes them for granted.

Maybe there just aren't enough of us these days.

 

If this is the case, from a purely NJT perspective, it is a bit underwhelming that they would not at least include NJCL trains that make most if not all local stops between NYP and Rahway. Are they even including any NJCL services or Midtown direct trains as non-playable trains? With only NJT Northeast Corridor trains and Amtrak services, rush hour at places like Secaucus and Newark Penn will not be nearly as busy as they should be. For context, standing on the upper level platform at Secaucus, you can see trains pass by every 2-3 mins between 5 pm and 6 pm, and the same is true in the morning rush.

As mentioned before in this thread, ALP-46 and multilevel consists can be (and are) used in all of the following weekday services since they all start and terminate in electrified territory:
31XX, 32XX, 35XX, 37XX, 38XX, 39XX, 62XX, 63XX, 66XX

 

With how little DTG shows us they care, It think after buying all there US content over the years, this is the nail in the coffin for me, Ill just keep playing run8 until Railroader comes out, because lets be honest Railroader is gunna take all the last of the US fans away from TSW.

 

Same. I’ve started to play TS Classic a lot more now, and I’m really excited for the American route being developed for SimRail.

I’ve played TSW for years, this is the final straw. In fact, I have every single TSW DLC except for Birmingham right now, but I don’t feel like giving them any more money for the TSW side of things.
***Unless they accordingly address Trenton.

 

yeah its really sad to see the fall of US content to the point where they just don't care anymore. It really bothered me when Matt said that they didn't touch up anything from the original, like how is that at all acceptable? What a slap to the face.

 

Anyways,

i updated the initial post of this thread with updated information we know so far,

I also added a poll to this thread to display the opinion of this route to DTG front and centre.

It also would be nice if anyone who agrees with the opinion of this thread to upvote the initial post of this thread to better get the opinion across to DTG.

it’s important to note that it’s perfectly alright to like this route and decide to buy it even if you think the issues with it are r̶i̶d̶i̶c̶u̶l̶o̶u̶s̶ concerning.

V̶o̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ “e̶v̶e̶r̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ i̶s̶ f̶i̶n̶e̶” b̶a̶s̶i̶c̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ m̶e̶a̶n̶s̶ y̶o̶u̶’r̶e̶ o̶k̶a̶y̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ t̶h̶i̶s̶ r̶o̶u̶t̶e̶ b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ f̶o̶r̶g̶o̶t̶t̶e̶n̶ a̶n̶d̶ l̶e̶f̶t̶ i̶n̶ t̶h̶e̶ d̶u̶s̶t̶.
The updated voting options and what they mean in detail are available in the initial post of this thread.

everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Thanks

EDIT --- The original writing of this post came off as hostile, i apologize and have corrected my wording

 

Thanks everyone for the replies, I really didn’t expect this thread to blow up the way it did, and I’m impressed by the feedback being provided.

 

Thanks for creating the thread so we can get our voices heard. Hopefully tomorrow we get a response from the team.

 

Yeah there a few red flags with this route, but that one is the biggest. Also consider that NEC was always the one route that DTG wouldn’t touch when it came to porting routes over, got to make you wonder how badly it was built - but now it’s just been torn out and dropped into this new TSW 3 route. That’s a strategy I’d expect to see with somewhere like London Victoria/Glasgow Central etc, not somewhere that DTG themselves deemed too far gone to port over.

Overall it seems like a lot of time saving measures have stumped the development of this route, which is a big cause for concern.

My other favourite DTG quote regarding this route is this beauty from JD:

I’m not really sure how to summarise the issues with that sentence, it’s just a mind blowing statement & I cannot believe that the point of the LIRR layer has gone so far over their heads.

 

They’ll definitely be an issue with it being close to launch so I wouldn’t expect things to change before release, and one preview stream for all US content… well at least they call them previews cause that’s all their helpful for now, definitely not a chance to take on feedback before release…

 

Apparently nobody read my previous post, but on the roadmap stream Matt said that the original part of the route is being polished, and he confirmed that the catenary is getting replaced to the TSW3 standard. He also confirmed that there are trains that start and end at Jersey Avenue.