Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

1) the details were revealed, including in an article that was the repetition of another, without any great information. Why didn't they detail the services like they did in SEHS?
2) It's not a question of having time, see BML that has a lot of services and makes the route more attractive and enjoyable to play, despite the problems it has. It's no use being a LIRR that has no life...
3) So does that mean you can't make constructive criticism about the product? If so, releases will always continue in this model, with few schedules and few layers. If it's a simulator, let it simulate reality...
4) I will not buy the route for these reasons, and also because DTG has not responded so far, after several posts, the reason that we have very few schedules on this route and for the others to exist until additional layers.

..

 

Information from this thread is from 1) The roadmap stream last week, and 2) Information already revealed from Dovetail elsewhere. (like JD posting the timetable here, or Alex confirming AI is in scenarios, etc)

It's more so that AI services around you will be far fewer than reality, affecting "immersion". I agree that a preview stream is needed to see exactly what it's like, but there's definitely a lot of missing stuff here.

Feedback is what improves the game, if nobody speaks up, nothing gets changed. (especially knowing some of Dovetail's history in the past)

I can agree, however as USA passenger is my favourite "genre" of trains in this game if you may call it that, I am a bit disappointed because this route has major potential.

 

• I'm with you on the take a breath part. At the end of the day, it's an optional video game DLC. No one is forced to buy it.
• The services will take approx 1 hr give or take. I'm not sure how much time everyone spends playing, nor do I care. However, I think the service comments are in regards to immersion. Most players want it to feel busy like it does in real life. Besides, I wouldn't want to fall into this "hole lot of time", that sounds scary.
• It is important to note that a lot, if not all members / employees of DTG are adults with years of education and experience in creating videogames. I'm willing to bet it cost both a good deal of time & money for their education. So they probably don't work for free and have lives & responsibilities outside of DTG. So I'm with you on that. MindCraft sounds like a brain heavy game. Is it filled with Calculus, Long Form Essays, Chess, Crossword Puzzles, and related game / brain exercises? Sounds like something you have to really put your mind to.

FYI I'm just poking fun. Don't take this too seriously.

 

How many times is this discussion starts over and over again? This brings nothing. This is useless I think. No hate or angry but this is already discussed for so many times now in this topic.
it got bogged down again in a right or wrong story. this thread is now useless. it doesn't bring anything new now and the views are clear I thought

 

Well, to be honest, we really don't have much else to discuss, considering the preview stream got delayed and the article didn't give us any new information.

We only know the bad news and that's it, because not much has been shown to us. I will say that the screenshots we have do look good, but most of them are made at an angle that makes it hard to judge scenery quality, for example. Would've loved more screenshots or maybe even videos of the route in action.

 

But that is just the point of the discussion. People are asking more information. DTG repeats the same information as new information.

What did you expect was gonna happen?

 

This thread will be relevant again once the preview stream happens I bet. Really hope the stuff Matt said on the roadmap stream was just misinterpreted

 

Indeed and for people who are new to it and start the same discussion again, please read before you give your opinion about it again, which will only result in the same reactions.

 

DTG Matt Is it possible to explain why the LIRR was omitted from the route? And why are there no layers at all? I still understand LIRR, but freight static ai isn't that much work, is it?!

 

Hope your feeling better mate

 

Just stuff like that the “old” areas from the original NEC NY only received minor touchups.
So far that’s the only bit of information this thread has right now on the scenery side of things. It’s not too clear what minor meant.

EDIT— Based on the screenshot of the steam store page of Sunnyside, it doesn’t look different from TSW 2020, and I think it was interpreted by this thread and us that there are little to no changes at all. I hope we are wrong by that.

 

Welcome back Matt, hope you are feeling better.

 

You also clarified that the catenary on the route has been redone to TSW 3 standards.
Hope you are doing well.

 

Hadn’t seen that Matt was unwell.
Hope you feel better soon Matt.

 

While I can understand some frustrations with this, I don’t know why everyone is complaining when DTG already explained that the additions would cause performance issues. If we actually received what you’re asking for (which likely isn’t even possible in the current stack), the game would be rendered unplayable. Plus, the cost and timeline to make it playable and to deliver what you’re asking would likely be infeasible given other projects and deadlines. So, what would you rather have? Even if we did get the full time table, we’d probably see new complaints about the stations or something as minimal as the landscaping on the route. Sometimes this community is impossible to please and it makes for an unproductive process towards actual improvement.

 

Does this mean the clipping of passenger cars from both previous iterations is still present?

So were these left out because of the rolling stock or signaling? While previously it seemed more like the former, this hints at the latter. Couldn't the route handle the larger traffic with its new system?

Otherwise, thanks for the honesty. It is appreciated. I DO think it mostly still points out to more care being given to UK/German releases and that untested signaling should warrant a release postponement, but we don't see all that happens behind the curtain. Really hope that down the line, the route gets properly busy with traffic so that I can consider putting my money on the table.

 

I appreciate his honesty I feel the same. Once the work is actually put in with services that actually represents the NEC ,I will be the first to buy the route. Thanks again Matt for giving us more information

 

It’s disappointing that the njt side of the timetable isn’t more accurate to the prototype. I hope that gets looked at.

when I hear that say a route like sehs was developed with the real world 2019 timetable I get excited. Not knowing the route or such things in the uk I don’t know how accurate it is

nec ny Penn to Trenton is my home route. I’ve ridden it hundreds of times. As soon as I saw the future is route and code I had a feeling it was ny Penn to Trenton. It got me stoked for it. I know what’s prototypical here and what isn’t.

limiting the operations and the timetable to not include coast line services at least to Rahway puts a bad taste in my mouth and tempers my excitement. Having them all terminate in Rahway isn’t prototypical but I can understand a little bit of give and take to make the operations work ie having Amtrak stop in Trenton for the sake of the route when not all of them do

there’s other stuff I wish were there in this route too but at the end of the day not having a more true to life timetable for what is there will always sit wrong with me whether I buy it or not.

 

Glad to hear you're on the mend and hope you continue to get better over the weekend.

The additional clarification on all that stuff is highly appreciated, so thank you for that. Good to have a reason for the lack of LIRR and NJT services. Hope you do get to add them in the future, but I understand that you can't promise that. I know you said there was new OHLE on the route, but it wasn't exactly clear to what extent in my opinion, so it's good to see the old sections have seen changes here, as well as the improvements to materials and textures. Would've preferred to see penn station completely remodelled, as personally, I find the station model quite off from it's real counterpart (covered this in post #256), but new light baking is always appreciated along with whatever the additional work entails.

Thank you again for the further clarification on honesty hear Matt. I know this couldn't have all been easy to deal with/hear while ill, but we just all want this game and it's content to the be the best that it can. To side track a little from the topic, I think the Acela looks great and I personally haven't seen any issues with it so far.

Would appreciate it if any clarification can be given as to why the NJT Multilevel cab car hasn't been shown or talked about much at all yet when we're days from release - I hope this can at least be rectified in the preview stream, or maybe a picture or two in this thread before then...? But either way, would be good to see it at last in game. Also, would also really like to hear about why PIS has been (for lack of a better word) abandoned on US routes, re-using the quick fix PIS that the pres crew put together cause they ran out of time - especially since there's a whole thread with PIS references and as you said on the on the roadmap stream, there's a lot of people DTG have in the vicinity of the route who have already provided reference already.

 

Welcome back, Matt! Glad to hear you are feeling better.

Also thanks for the insight. Obviously most of it is not good news, but it's good to at least have a proper explanation. Many users here kept guessing if the lack of traffic (NJT, LIRR, freight) had performance or signalling reasons, but I have found that unlikely, so somewhat glad to hear that it really is just a matter of time constraints.

But in this case, why not push back the release? I mean you already have the Boston Sprinter update, the Acela and the Sherman Hill livery pack. That could easily occupy the US fans for while the route is being finished properly.

In any way, would love to be convinced by the preview stream on monday. But sadly I have my doubts. We will see.

 

I guess the question i’d like to ask is if there is a plan to add services to the time table … qualified as njt services … the didn’t get in there for launch?

for what it’s worth I would have rather waited longer for the game and y’all had time to keep going all the way with the timetable services

 

Yeah I want to say thank for for the honesty and transparency as a player of your game I appreciate it.

 

Matt with all respect, you(DTG) often don't fix things or if they do, the fixes never get released in a reasonable timeframe. Peninsular Corridor, the Dresden tutorials, all suffer from blocked trains are just the first to come to mind that have been broken for months. These have reported time and time again in the technical forums!

 

You are correct and here's one of the coaches should look like on the exterior if they messed this one up this one is MLV I-II 7523 Cab Car 7045. Had ALP-45DP 4516 rear

One windows on the upper level has a destination sign fitted to it the one here should open since Northeast Corridor is mostly high level platforms the door control should need to be selective operation otherwise you would end up opening both doors. Example Jersey Avenue Northeast Corridor low level platform which means the trap door must open not handicap high level platform door closed. This is not the case with M3 & M7 since you end up opening the whole train instead of first 3-4 cars on short platforms.

 

I agree that this should be the first priority of any future modifications. Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed responses, and glad to see you are well.

 

Definitely. NJT is the the brand new content, it deserves it's timetable to be done justice.

 

Matt, I know it's getting late and you've been bombarded with questions already, but can you answer if the Amfleets have brake sounds this time?

 

It seems to me people have to decide whether to buy it as-is or not. They should not wait for something further and then say where is it? You either want this route as specified, or not.

 

Awesome, glad to hear that the cab car hasn't purposefully been left out for any reason. And yeah, that's understandable if you can't get anything out on the cab car. As you said, it is late, so figured it'd be a long shot anyway when I asked. Glad to see it'll get equal time as the ALP though for the preview. And glad to hear that the PIS issue is being looked into. Definitely understand that it'd be challenging implementing a new system for a new region, but as others have rightly said, French PIS was recreated for LGV and as of so far, the region has only been done as a one off. But again, glad to see it's at least being looked into. Again, really appreciate the clarification and transparency on the issues

 

Yeah, of course, that's completely understandable. But if it's at least looked into and addressed for the next US passenger route, that'd be good to see. And if we do see an fix for Trenton in the future, then that's just an added bonus if you ask me.

 

Yes. And there's the rub.

While I realize that Rockstar is a very, very different company with a very different sales model, nonetheless one of the reasons their games are praised to the stars is that their attitude is "Release date TBD- and even after the announcement, we may well postpone it. You'll get it when it's ready."

The money men love hard release dates. But surely they can see that allowing fixed deadlines to compromise the product costs them money in the long run?

I acknowledge the work and time necessary to get the signaling system right. This is I think (and have stated) an imperative for US routes going forward. But its impact on development time should have been anticipated going in. Perhaps this route should have been bumped to follow Rheinstrecke, and not rushed to coincide with the Acela release.

 

The thing where you mentioned about the PIS, they just did not have the reference material to create the actual ones, and they didn't work with us to get the actual PIS screens

 

It is also No Help At All and No Fun at All

 

At this point we all know pretty much the answers to most of our questions.We all know how long it takes even when things are promised. We are still waiting for fixes that have been almost a year now on the Harlem. I fear given their history nothing will happen after the route is launch. They already said is very complex and I don’t see any reason other than maybe if a new loco is announced they it will be looked at.so we know what you are getting so is up to you if you want to settle for what they are giving you.

 

I really hope that this thread actually does spark change because honestly I feel like if this was a german or british route, we wouldn't be in this situation

From my understanding of all this, essentially whilst there are touchups to the route scenery wise, corners were essentially cut due to self imposed time constraints. The reason why there are also no layers is also because ot self imposed time constraints. At least it wasn't performance issues.

This highlights the problem with this company. It's always get the product out on this day even if it means we have to cut corners. But hey let's also increase prices at the same time as well. This DLC could easily have been delayed. What exactly is the "big bad problem" of delaying a product? What is the "big bad problem" of not announcing a release date until it is ready"? DTG didn't have to announce a release date for this product when they did. But since they want to milk players of their cash every month with something brand new and shiny, the end result is a product that has been made with so many cut corners and potential bugs being released.

The whole we will look into it or we will see what we can do better and I'll see why something the way it is doesn't spark much confidence when similar statements have been said only to end up in square one.

I understand that developing signaling systems isn't easy but that should've been realized before the fact. This route should've been delayed and not rushed just to coincide with the release of the acela so a marketing campaign can be done to get new players to spend their cash as the bundles are clearly marketed for new players. (The fact that LIRR was advertised in the article for players to purchase even though it is riddled with issues and the propulsion sounds of the m7 still cut out in the rear 4,6 and 8 cars and Harlem being advertised even though it has red light issues which have yet to be fixed says it all really). The big bad problem is DTG themselves with their persistence despite not having any competition and also being a publisher to just get stuff out the door and forget about previous content over and over again.

 

I feel the same way. There’s no way this would happen if that was the case,but unfortunately we are a minority and This happens every time with US content. Harlem was a good example we all wanted to southeast and never materialized. Is a shame I didn’t expect this to happen with this route. I was wrong

 

Shouldn't this have happened months if not a year ago? There was criticism with the PIS on the Harlem line about using inaccurate PIS despite reference. It just seems like it took a massive thread to generate backlash to finally look into that issue.

It's good that it's finally being looked into and whilst adding pis isn't easy, this should've happened frankly after the inaccurate LIRR pis system released two years ago and not now especially when you wanted community reference on PIS systems to avoid what happened on boston sprinter

 

Echoing what others have said, for sure feeling like nothing will change post release after looking at Harlem Line and also LIRR... but if there's a glimmer of hope for any improvements with trenton I vouch for more NJT.

 

Waiting with anticipation for your next video. We need as many voices as we can to help us spread our concerns

 

I can understand this when a release date is already decided and in close proximity - like in this case. But why decide on a release date while work is still heavily in progress and the team can't forecast when it will be done? If the routes were given a bit more time from the start, running out of time would be less likely. Ideally a release date should be set only when most of the work is finished and only bugfixing and polishing remains.

In any way, it is what it is now. I just keep hoping that one day you (as a team) learn to slow down a bit and give development more time, as it's always the same story with rushed releases and half finished routes.
Looking forward to see if the preview steam makes me want to buy the route or not. If not, then I hope that at least after the release the route will get updates (missing services and LIRR layer) to make it more appealing. Until then, I guess I will have fun with the Acela on Boston.

 

Actually there was a thread when they were doing the Pres crew update to LIRR from Adam asking for pictures from people. Almost 2 years ago.

I don't know whatever happened there but alot of people posted pics..

 

Even videos with complete PIS animations...

 

They had the reference for the pis on LIRR. But what happened was due to self imposed time constraints, the inaccurate pis was released as part of the preservation crew update to lirr. They haven't bothered to add the correct pis displays since

 

Too many excuses. Too many red flags….for too long…… they have known about The LIRR signaling and used it as an excuse for the amount of services . Now here we go again….. new signaling system , same issues

 

It's just these small things left out that can make a route a great route instead of just a good route.

What happened to the passion for trains?