Third Party Route/locomotive Plans

Discussion in 'Creators Club' started by NorthRail1, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    Since the editor is releasing in the next few months, I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread with a list of routes and locomotives which people are planning on creating. If you have any plans to create a route or a locomotive for TSW once the editor is released, please comment below.

    Here are a few that I already know of:
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  2. Nick_Brad

    Nick_Brad Member

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    I am starting much simpler, I plan to create the Alexander railroad in North Carolina, possibly extending into NS territory if I am successful with my shortline project. To that end, an SW1500 would be a great addition to the game or even a classic Alco S3, but not a deal breaker.
     
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  3. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Nice, my home state! I have quite a few ideas of my own, but none of them are much more than that yet. I may start out with an NC shortline as well.

    I'd be happy to help, actually, come to think of it. Maybe I could try to model/texture a few things? I don't really have much experience, but you've got to get experience somewhere, right?
     
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  4. Nick_Brad

    Nick_Brad Member

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    Indeed, even the DTG crew started somewhere.....I shall be jumping into Blender again when I have the time over the christmas period, so hopefully I can begin with a building or two to use. I am also a huge fan of transport fever and anything I am able to create, will also be ported into that game. I did actually try recreating Juniata shops on that game, albeit with generic mods/buildings, which is what I will most likely do with TSW for a start when we finally have the tools.
     
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  5. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see the SW1500 probably more than any other diesel, I love the view you get inside, and I've always loved switchers.
     
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  6. Nick_Brad

    Nick_Brad Member

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    I just hope we don't have a run of sub-par mods released with unrealistic prices attached.....it happened for a while when Train Sim first came to the workshop, to this day i still have no clue what is good and what is not amongst the hundreds of dlcs.
     
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  7. Alex01

    Alex01 Active Member

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    sadly im banned :(
     
  8. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    Looks great! Do you plan on making a route for this loco?
     
  9. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    NorthRail1, like you previously mentioned, my group is planning on the development of the entire Northeast Corridor from Boston to Washington D.C. I am the project lead have been planning this particular development effort for approximately three years.

    We understand that this project is a massive undertaking. It's over 450 miles and the average route offering from DTG is ~40-45 miles. We know how long it takes them to create a route, but DTG has a lot more overhead that we fortunately won't have to deal with. We will be creating additional content or modifications as needed, but most of the things we need are already in the game.

    The project will start at Boston South Station in Boston, Massachusetts. The first section we will fully create is from Boston South Station to Providence, Rhode Island, which is is 43 miles in length. What we want to do is fully create, decorate, and test each section before moving onto the next. This will allow the players to experience and enjoy a fully functional and meaningful section while we work on the next section.

    Here are how we are planning to divide up the Northeast Corridor into sections.

    Section 1: Boston South Station – Providence
    · 43.58 miles (End of track at Boston – West end Providence platform)
    · 44.60 miles (43.58 miles + track extending to Milepost 184)
    · Travel Time: ~40 minutes

    Section 2: Providence – Westerly
    · 43.75 miles (West end Providence platform – West end Westerly platform)
    · 44.00 miles (43.75 miles + track extending to West end curve at Milepost 141)
    · Travel Time: ~35 minutes

    Section 3: Westerly – Old Saybrook
    · 36.15 miles (West end Westerly platform – West end Old Saybrook platform)
    · 37.46 miles (36.15 miles + track extending to West end curve at Brook interlocking)
    · Travel Time: ~45 minutes

    Section 4: Old Saybrook – New Haven Union Station
    · 32.98 miles (West end Old Saybrook platform – West end New Haven platform)
    · 34.37 miles (32.98 miles + track extending to West end curve at Milepost 71)
    · Travel Time: ~35 minutes

    Section 5: New Haven Union Station – Stamford
    · 39.19 miles (West end New Haven platform – West end Stamford platform)
    · 39.83 miles (39.19 miles + track extending to West limits CP 232 interlocking)
    · Travel Time: ~45 minutes

    Section 6: Stamford – New York Penn Station
    · 36.00 miles (West end Stamford platform – West end New York Penn platform)
    · 38.73 miles (36.00 + track extending to West end Hudson River tunnels)
    · Travel Time: ~45 minutes

    Section 7: New York Penn Station – Metropark
    · 24.46 miles (West end New York Penn platform – West end Metropark platform)
    · 25.29 miles (24.46 + track extending to first curve West of Milepost 24)
    · Travel Time: ~35 minutes

    Section 8: Metropark – Trenton
    · 33.36 miles (West end Metropark platform – West end Trenton platform)
    · 34.48 miles (33.36 + track extending to Milepost 58, just over river)
    · Travel Time: ~25 minutes

    Section 9: Trenton – Philadelphia 30th Street Station
    · 32.54 miles (West end Trenton platform – South end Philadelphia 30th Street platform)
    · 33.34 miles (32.54 + track extending to Milepost 2)
    · Travel Time: ~28 minutes

    Section 10: Philadelphia 30th Street Station – Wilmington
    · 25.60 miles (South end Philadelphia 30th Street platform – South end Wilmington platform)
    · 26.68 miles (25.60 + track extending to Milepost 28)
    · Travel Time: ~21 minutes

    Section 11: Wilmington – Aberdeen
    · 38.18 miles (South end Wilmington platform – South end Aberdeen platform)
    · 39.38 miles (38.18 + track extending to South end of curve that is North of Milepost 67)
    · Travel Time: ~30 minutes

    Section 12: Aberdeen – Baltimore
    · 30.20 miles (South end Aberdeen platform – South end Baltimore platform)
    · 31.94 miles (30.20 + track extending to South Portal of B&P Tunnel)
    · Travel Time: ~22 minutes

    Section 13: Baltimore – Washington Union Station
    · 40.10 miles (South end Baltimore platform to Milepost 136 at Washington Union Station)
    · 41.67 miles (40.10 + track extending South of First Street Tunnel at Milepost 137)
    · Travel Time: ~45 minutes

    We plan on having players be able to test the absolute latest changes to the route via a "Beta branch". Only the "Public branch" submissions are expected to work properly, but the Beta branch submissions will allow people to stay up to date on our progress. We are hoping that Steam Workshop functionality will allow people to test the latest progress each day. If not, then we will find a workaround to get the content to you!

    As it stands right now, we have a development team of approximately 15 people. That will certainly change once development begins because we expect interest to be piqued once the editor is released. I honestly don't see much activity right now when it comes to the formation of development teams. That surprises me. I only know of three efforts that are currently in the planning stages (including my group's project). C'mon people! Make development teams! Or at least declare yourself as an independent developer. We need more community involvement.

    My group is definitely prepared. How prepared are we? Let me show you.

    There's a project that I've been working on for the past few years that we call the "Google Earth Project". My goal with this project is to create a fully visual representation of all the official documents we have accumulated. This information includes things like speed limits, signals, defect detectors, curve parameters, and interlockings. Instead of wasting time sifting through documentation, developers simply have to refer to the Google Earth Project to obtain the information they need. Here are some photos of how detailed the project is.

    NYT1.PNG
    New York Terminal District. Plotting of the East River Tunnels (Lines 1-4) underneath Long Island City. Notable features are engineering notation, curvature/tangent points, mileposts, and signals. You can click on a signal and see details about it.

    NHB1.PNG
    New Haven to Boston Line. A portion of 150MPH territory between Exeter, RI and North Kingstown, RI. Notable features include cab signal block points, signals, electrical stations, mileposts, defect detectors, and interlockings. A neat feature is the ability to click on a section of track and see the speed limits for each train type!

    You can view the latest progress on our Google Earth Project by installing Google Earth, downloading the KML file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz8eG2qa_5ltUEVTNkUzQ3RXMWM/view?usp=sharing) and opening it in Google Earth.


    Want to know the best part of the Google Earth Project? It will be able to be overlaid on top of the terrain in the Train Sim World editor. Yes, our developers will be able to see all the mileposts, signal locations, and other landmarks right in the editor. You simply have to import a KML file into the editor. This will eliminate a lot of ALT+TAB action! Most of the development tasks will get accomplished within the editor window.

    We also have a huge repository of documentation stored on our Google Drive. Even people who are not interested in developing can learn a great deal about the Northeast Corridor by visiting our Google Drive. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bz8eG2qa_5ltdF9QeXNORHhtRTg?usp=sharing

    I am currently in the process of establishing an AWS CodeCommit GIt Source Control Repository for our project. Git repositories seamlessly integrate into Unreal Engine 4 and allow for accurate and reliable source control when it comes to submitting file changes and versioning. Each modification a developer makes to the route has to be validated before it can be committed to the repository. Each change is properly categorized and can be rolled back in the event someone makes a catastrophic change. Our project will also be backed up to Carbonite Online Backup to ensure that no changes will ever be lost. I will soon be releasing a tutorial on how you can take advance of Unreal Engine 4's Source Control capabilities. I highly recommend utilizing Source Control for ANY project, regardless of size.

    Well that's it for now. We are really anticipating the release of the editor! Let me know if you have any questions about our project or if you are interested in contributing!

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=720469151375805&ref=br_rs
    Discord: https://discord.gg/nqktYVu
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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  10. Nick_Brad

    Nick_Brad Member

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    That's some impressive planning going on right there and I look forward to the tutorial on Source Control as I have no idea about any of that stuff.
    I could jump into the route editor on TS and create routes, (albeit mostly fictional ones,) quite easily after a while, but I have no clue on how to properly organise and manage a project, especially between multiple people.
     
  11. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    This is a serious question, not a detraction, but given the tools aren’t available yet, and there’s no route beyond 45 miles how does one scale up that a 450 mile route is possible? That’s not ‘can a 450 mile route be built’ it’s ‘can it be supported by a PC and/or a console?’. It’s such a massive leap from where the game is today what’s the math/logic/fact that it will run? After all the current performance levels of TSW have some issues.

    What’s the likely size of the route when it’s done for example? Has any estimates been done on the man days/years of effort needed for each piece? Fifteen developers is a pretty good team, but you’ll find that the work on coordinating that size of a group isn’t trivial. Much as you need developers you’ll need resources to ‘manage’ the effort and carry out housekeeping duties like back-ups, golden copies, testing plans etc. etc.

    As for the statement that ‘DTG has a lot of overhead that we fortunately won’t have to deal with’ that I do caution on. Professional software developers have a lot of advantages over non-pros, everything from a standard working environment platform, access to the original engine developers and the not small little thing of being able to spend 40+ hours a week doing it. Even them being in the same office and having a professional team are huge advantages.

    So, I can’t see how it’s easier for you, but that of course would only make the final success any more laudable.
     
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  12. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    To put things in perspective, a 450mile long route would probably be the largest map anyone has ever created in UE4.

    A big limit comes from the coordinate system. Let's say there's three digits for XYZ, an object at 1,1,1 in the code would be expressed as 1.00,1.00,1.00. Now move the object to 10,10,10, in the code it would be 10.0,10.0,10.0. If we moved an object to 100,100,100, in the code it would be 100,100,100. Now we move it to 1000,1000,1000, and it would be 100,100... ah, we've run out of digits to use...

    One way around it is to reset the origin point, so when the player moves 100 units from the original origin, the origin is reset with the player's position now being 0. To do that though you'd have to recalculate the position of everything in the scene as well as the physics state for all the assets, so you'd have to have a pause for loading which would probably last as long as it takes to load an existing route in TSW. This assumes that the TSW tools will permit offsetting the origin point or provide some other method for creating massive maps.

    It seems at the moment that DTG are working with a 100km limit for their routes. So for anyone planning a route for TSW I'd probably look at 100km being the limit for the map itself.

    As usual DTG have hardly been forth coming with infomation, so whilst they know the limits, they don't want us to know them at the moment.
     
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  13. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    This *is* getting a bit off topic, but yes, floating point errors would be a problem there. There is a decent chance, however, that the system you described might be or could be implemented, either by DTG or maybe hacked in by a third party. I don't know how long this is exactly, but there are definitely some very large routes in TSxx that apparently work just fine. If TSW is supposed to have the roughly the same capabilities as TSxx, it needs to have some way of doing the same.

    It isn't 450 miles, but it's also worth noting that DTG has at least considered doing the full Great Eastern Main Line for TSW, as evidenced by an answer choice in a recent survey. And no, not just part of it- other routes had more specific end points mentioned, and this one just said "London-Norwich."

    Or, perhaps... get this... they could just break the route up into several smaller routes and call it a day.

    (Seriously, though, this is way off topic.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
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  14. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    1) Since route tiles are streamed based on proximity, the size of the route isn't a factor. If the ENTIRE route was loaded into memory at once, then that would be a limiting factor. It isn't, so route length isn't a problem.

    2) We don't know the size of the route when it's completed or how long it'll take to complete. It's simply a vision at this time. I'll be handling the duties of backing things up, managing commits, and we already have a plan in place. We aren't going into this blind.

    3) The only thing I meant by the "overhead" statement is that DTG has to do a lot of research, create textures, create 3D models, create all the scripting and programming, etc. We have already done all our research and will be utilizing most of what DTG has already created.

    I'm not saying we are professionals. Heck, I am a full-time Network Engineer in the United States Air Force. None of our team members are in the industry. This is simply a hobby. But we are preparing as much as we can for the editor. We are passionate about railroading and about the Northeast Corridor.
     
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  15. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    That is an option with UE4, but do we know that's been implemented in an unlimited way with TSW? If it has, is it volume based or is it script based? And for example, how is the AI handled on areas of the map which are not in memory?

    Ideally DTG would jump in at this point and let us know what the score it, but they don't seem too keen to give us information. If they've developed a way to reliably create the biggests maps ever created in UE4 I would have thought that something to boast about, but I can't recall them talking about it.

    I'm not trying to put you off, I'm just a bit frustrated that DTG keep telling us the Editor is coming, but they don't give the creators(who represent a significant portion of TSW's future) any information besides 'learn to use the UE4 editor'.
     
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  16. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    Honestly a lot of the details we have about the editor came from us asking Matt Peddlesden in the Train Sim Community Discord.
     
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  17. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Did Matt say what the practical limit to the world size was?

    I really wish they'd use their own forums to communicate rather than an unofficial Discord. If they prefer Discord why don't they create an official DTG Discord server and then embedded the Discord widget into dovetailgames.com, that would be much better than the nebulous forum of communication they currently use.
     
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  18. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    This concept that DTG generates a sub community of ITKs through Discord is very, very strange. If the information is shared on Discord why can’t it be posted in their own official forum? Is that official DTG strategy to segment their customers into Matt’s buddies and everyone else?

    Today on these forums (and therefore I guess ‘officially’) TrainSim-Steve provided the earth shattering update that ‘Absolutely, yes you will be able to use repaints of TSW locomotives and wagons :)’, yet there’s no comment on what are pretty important questions on people making plans for the editor contained in this thread.
     
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  19. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    If you dig in a bit more into how TS/TSW works you will have your answers without asking DTG. You just can't do a TS without a script based origin shifting / tile system. If you look a bit different on it how it works and from a very simple perspective, the world moves, not you as the player. So there is no limit on top of that system. As on all TS implementations that i know, the track infrastucture is one piece, so it stays in memory functionally, not visible. AI trains are just numbers, transforms, where the models are hooked on when near the players camaera position. The only limitation is the amout of Memory the whole stuff will consume when in runtime. I would say you can do a 1000miles route without any problem, except the time you will need to build it ^^. I guess that DTG has implented the LAT LON in a way, that there is no problem. The 'old' TS does have problems then after 900miles or so. But it even would work with showing some offsets from the GE overlay the far you are away from the route origins LAT LON.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
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  20. DANNYBOY2487

    DANNYBOY2487 Active Member

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    i would like to make a more Modern version of the GWML London Paddington to Swansea, London Paddington to Penzance via Bristol and Westbury and London Paddington to Hereford via Oxford. obviously i do it in parts.
     
  21. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Matt stated that UE4 doens’t limit the length of the routes. The limiting factor so far has been time to develop.

    This was from watching the chatter in one of his streams on twitch. Really interesting listening in and participating with. This unoffical forms of communications.

    Edit - typos from responded on my Iphone
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
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  22. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    And tbh. the real question is not how long the routes can be but how good they will be :)
     
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  23. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The dev time is not the reason for the current route lengths. The reason the routes are the length they are is because they produce the greatest profit per mile for a route of particular type. In very simple terms 100 people will buy a 50mile route for £24.99, fewer than 100 people will buy a 100mile route for £49.99, so two 50mile routes will produce a greater profit than one 100mile route. If longer was more profitable then DTG would just hire more staff and contractors to reduce dev time and push out 300mile routes at the same pace as 50mile ones.
     
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  24. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    Theoretically unlimited route length.
     
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  25. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    I remember this specifically and I will hereby back up this statement.

    But seriously, this is like a whole other thread now. Anybody else planning on making something with the editor?
     
  26. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Well, I am glad you know more than Matt P. knows about the inner works of DTG and his management of the project since your explanation is in direct conflict with Matt’s. And as usual - you seem to be hijacking this thread well away from the original OP’s intent and so I will bow out and hopefully allow this discussion to get back on track.
     
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  27. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Well-Known Member

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    Awesome. I was going to put together a suggestion to have DTG do that one. It's close to my house and my son is named Alexander.
     
  28. Nick_Brad

    Nick_Brad Member

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    I think that the shortline on it's own would be of little interest to most....add in the interchange with NS at Statesville, then we're talking. :)
     
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  29. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I had a similar plan for the Alexander Railroad in TS1 but I never found the time to complete it, though I did create many of the assets I needed. These should look familiar:

    upload_2018-12-10_22-41-9.png
    upload_2018-12-10_22-42-6.png
    upload_2018-12-10_22-44-25.png
     
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  30. Nick_Brad

    Nick_Brad Member

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    Seems the ole Junebug has a few fans in here...... I realise you're going to be very busy already Digital Draftsman, but if you find time to convert those to TSW when released, they'd be a massive help and very much appreciated.

    (As a bonus, I wouldn't mind the dimensions of the Taylorsville depot, to aid with my HO model of it that I have plans for.)
     
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  31. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    This is starting to sound like a bit of a group project, almost. If so, I'd be happy to help too.
     
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  32. Nick_Brad

    Nick_Brad Member

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    If you caught the Livestream on the editor tools, (I'm watching the vod over on Twitch now, https://www.twitch.tv/videos/348624549 ) at 15:00 matt mentions that he is building the "Alexandra Railroad in North Carolina", so this really is a popular shortline. It looks like I really need to get some advice from Cactusjuice or at least get pointed in the right direction for tips on how to use kml files in Google Earth for plotting stuff. I am going to need to upgrade my pc though before actual work starts, (hoping to have the money to do it by the end of Jan).
     
  33. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that, heh. It's kind of funny how so many people want to make this route! It's a nice route, but we have, what, at least 3 unrelated attempts to build this somewhat obscure shortline in a train simulator?

    I already have part of the route traced out in Google Earth as part of an unrelated project. I only have like 2 miles of it traced, though. I don't entirely remember why, either.
     
  34. Nick_Brad

    Nick_Brad Member

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    How detailed is your tracing.....is it just the basics, or do you have object details marked out, like the LIRR project above, highlighted by CactusJuice? If you have a lot of time/data on there already, it'd be silly for me to start afresh.
     
  35. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Hi there!
    I'll be making exactly nothing! Hah!
    I'll only be working on scenarios and guides, not routes nor rolling stock.

    Cheers!
     
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  36. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Seriously not much. It's just 2 miles of the mainline and like a siding or two. A bit earlier I tried to expand on it but Google Earth crashed and I forgot to save, so it isn't that useful.
     
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  37. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    I am happy to help with Google Earth and KML. You can load my development KML into Google Earth to get an idea of the details we are including. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz8eG2qa_5ltUEVTNkUzQ3RXMWM/view?usp=drivesdk
     
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  38. Lawjester

    Lawjester Well-Known Member

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    Oh I didn’t realize this thread existed. So now my group is called the “MTA Content Development Group”, just so we would not be limited to solely LIRR but work on MTA as a whole. Our first project will be the LIRR Port Washington branch and will be roughly 14 miles from the main line branch off in LIRR TSW right now. We’re working on a basic plan or “roadmap” but for now this is what we’re doing. The team has already started working on all the services on the Port Washington branch, so that making service mode will be easy and a seamless transfer of information. Here’s a sneak peak of the work being done:

    0FAC9DE5-4969-485A-9067-DCF5C0C7EE1E.jpeg

    Credit goes to Mattg17 for the great work so far! Also join our Discord for the latest news and discussion and thanks NorthRail1 for listing us!
     
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  39. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    It's good to see that DTG has created a new "Community Projects & Developer's Area", this will be very useful for finding out about new projects for TSW.
     
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  40. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Senior Producer Staff Member

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    Hi Guys,

    I've moved this thread to a new dedicated forum for all the TSW Developers out there. Feel free to use this area of the forum to discuss projects you're working on for TSW - if you need a thread moving here, please feel free to DM me with the link.

    Best, Steve
     
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  41. Lawjester

    Lawjester Well-Known Member

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  42. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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  43. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
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  44. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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  45. Ilba8765

    Ilba8765 Well-Known Member

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    when does the BR 420 come in tsw ?? [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  46. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    Awesome idea, Steve. Thanks for the heads-up.
     
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  47. Mattg17

    Mattg17 Member

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    I'm a tad late into realizing I've been mentioned. But here's another little sneak preview at what Lawjester mentioned a week ago, this time with finished Great Neck data. Just a disclaimer, this data is a combination of me and a undisclosed assistant. bandicam 2018-12-25 17-11-59-281.jpg
     
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  48. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    Awesome
     
  49. Nick_Brad

    Nick_Brad Member

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    Thanks for sharing that, it's very helpful for showing what details you are mapping out......one of the things I don't have on the Alexander Railroad is signalling to worry about, but I am tempted to map a few miles of NS trackage so I can at least include the interchange and maybe more, depending on how I get on with the whole editor.
     
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  50. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    I think with UE4 the quality has to be top. No offence to beginners but practice first before releasing content we dont want OMSI quality part two a lot of half finished projects
     
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