Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

Yeah kinda dissapointing especially right when I saw that clipping into the train at Penn Station can see that nothing has changed there as i predicted. Isn't the station supposed to be polished? Also not much train traffic. Thats what happens when your missing a good amount of Services & layers. So far the route is not grabbing my interest. Best part is the Acela which I will be picking up. Penn looked so dead.... Scenery not bad. Train models are pretty good.

 

Same. The scenery looks good, and I’ve actually seen quite a few trains driving by. Obviously not London Commuter levels, but also not completely deserted. All the trains and cabs seem to be implemented very well. Very few bugs, essentially all of them cosmetic and with little to no impact on gameplay.

Everybody is always just complaining and not even ready to admit that the route actually looks quite good as a whole. In the end, people are just ruining their own experience with the route by being negative all the time.

This route overall looks so much better than Edinburgh-Glasgow on all levels, which is ironic considering that route was highly anticipated and marketed for multiple months.

 

Amtrak should invest in DTG's ACS-64 locomotives & NJT should invest in DTG's ALP-46 locomotives. They're apparently dual mode!

 

40

 

Smfh...ohh but don't worry the route doesn't feel "completely deserted"..yea right...And this what some of us meant, not even much traffic during the rush hour part of this dlc.

 

How about those total 40 services for the ALP-46.
1/3 of the route are sunny side moves……..same here will pass

 

You can clearly see that the majority of people in the thread are commenting on how good the route looks - not sure why you’re putting yourself on a pedestal over people who complain all the time, asif people that act blind to every bug & complain about anyone who dare bring it up, are any better

There are issues in the NYC area that should of been sorted out the first time it appeared in a DLC, certainly by the second - to then release a third paid DLC with same low level of detail & obvious clipping issues all over the place, it’s not great by any standard.

 

They picked the busier time to show off the route and still empty. Just a complete waist of a great looking route

 

I'm in agreement with everyone else here it seems, looks like a good and interesting route. The train models all look great. But the timetable is a complete joke. An update to prices and yet we end up with a timetable like this, why I can only assume is because of time constraints.

Maybe been playing train sim world for a year or so now and was really excited for this route as maybe my first day one purchase, but I really can't justify that anymore after the preview stream. Really disappointing.

 

What’s worse is that they know the timetable is lackluster and even acknowledged it but won’t commit to fixing it. I mean 40 ALP-46 services for the NJT. Is just a shame, a waist of a good looking route

 

I wouldn’t even be mad about the timetable if we had the ability to customize consists and create and import our own timetable in the form of game modifications, BUT we can’t… so the lack of creative freedom has us solely relying on the developers to implement that (and most other things), but they always seem to fall flat, especially with US content. :/

 

I didn't know DTG was making trackline belts for their merch.
A Trenton - NY belt to hold up my pants at my waist sounds stylish.

Just poking fun in good faith.

 

A few thoughts:

- AI trains run with their pantographs down (not sure if all of them, safe to say the majority)
- AI runs with wrong headlights/tail lights (or completely without any lights)
- At NY Penn, the carriages hit the pillars

The above three... there is no excuse. You commit these mistakes every single time. Very immersion breaking, especially for £30.

- Scenery looks ok but the route feels bland
- Nice catenary
- Felt very empty
- Acela is very nice, the only thing I'll be picking up, the route in this state is a big no

I'm a bit disappointed as I was interested in the route.

 

I wonder how far back into the development of this route you could pin the issue down. Matt has already elaborated that the principal issue with the timetable is time.

What I do wonder is if the initial scoping sessions for the DLC plan are the crux of the problem. This section of NEC is NJT’s stomping ground, for me the number 1 priority should have been the NJT aspect, but it feels like all the effort went into Amtrak.

I just don’t see how DTG can develop a whole new loco (something they are doing less off) and then only give it 40 services? Especially on a route where there is a potential for 100’s.

Surely there’s a point in initial scoping where the devs are discussing what they plan to do with a train? How is it that one of NJT’s busiest corridors has been so badly overlooked?

This was the same issue with the DBAG 101 - good content goes to waste because of seemingly poor planning, it took 2/3 years for the 101 to get a decent chunk of stuff to do with it, how long will it be for the ALP46?

 

Scenery looked good and I have to admit, the trains looked very nice. But as it was expected, the route is really empty. Not LIRR levels of emptiness, but pretty bad representation of a rush hour service.

Then we had things like the clipping at NY Penn, bad lighting at NY Penn tunnel, trains driving with pantographs down and Matt confirmed the Amtrak rolling stock doesn't have the improved radial blur for wheels.

Definitely wouldn't get it full price for myself. Might still get it next week as a birthday present from family, as it looks fun. But not quality I would be happy to pay full price myself. The obvious issues need to be sorted and a timetable needs filled with more traffic and ideally LIRR AI at NY Penn.

 

The way the Amtrak train near NY Penn clipped just about every support beam in the stream was a bit bizarre and comical.
You can see it here around the 1:16:00 mark, just about every coach clips a beam.
Good thing it's a videogame and not real life! That would be a bit scary to say the least.

The lighting is way better than TSW 2020, especially in the North River Tunnels.
One inaccuracy I noticed about the North River Tunnels was the lack of 3rd rail.
Granted the 3rd rail is RARELY used in those tunnels.
As it's really only for Amtrak's P32(s) on protect duty, it's still there and live I presume (not that I have any interest in finding out for myself).
It's not a shocking detail I'm interested in pursuing.

It is good to SEE in that area now. TSW 2020 was utter darkness. It reminded me of the "Bringer of Darkness" Jutsu from Naruto.

 

Agreed that the emptiness brings down the immersion.

 

The Boston with the Acela new signals looked and worked great. Thank you for giving lots of details. Hope you can work your magic on the Harlem and LIRR route……

 

As far as the route being empty, it's not too inaccurate in the stretch between Trenton & say Elizabeth or so.
Empirically albeit I normally take trains on that stretch on the weekends, it's not bustling with trains 24/7.
It's not a TOTAL ghost town imo, but it's not jam packed all the time.
The stretch between NWK & NYP is the busiest. Between TRE & Rahway, it can be a bit light.

One super odd thing I noticed was some Amtrak trains, I believe it was 652 in the stream actually began its run on an outer track at Trenton.
In real life it normally uses Track 1. It didn't bother me, I just found it interesting. It's rare to see Amtrak trains use the outer tracks at Trenton, those are typically reserved for NJT & SEPTA. Unless there's some sort of service disruption or construction going on.

 

That's a good point. I don't know what the internal workings are like at DTG, nor is it my business to know.
However, I think that has to do with how these routes & services turn out.
There were more things planned (ie LIRR AI Trains, more AI trains in general) that didn't make the cut due to a seemingly pre-determined schedule & perhaps their budget.

 

.
And out of the 40 we don’t even know yet how many are deadheads and railyard moves so passengers service are probably even less…..

 

Same. As long as there aren't Harlem Line glitches that literally prevent me from finishing services, I should enjoy it.
Is it 100% perfect for me? Certainly not. Is it unbearable for me? Certainly not.

It's optional, and I choose to play it and will likely enjoy it.
At the end of the day it's to each their own.

 

I noticed that certain AI trains have been running with the rear headlights on for some time, most notably in the Caltrain DLC.

 

Yes, I thought it was poignant that the team had an " Ooh, would you look at that!! " moment whenever an AI train passed by.
AI traffic should be so frequent on that route that it shouldn't need a mention.

The lowered pantographs are simply inexcusable after beta and in-house testing.

I agree with most people that the modeling is very good on the whole. The route is just too darn quiet.

But...I will likely buy it and enjoy it, however with far less enthusiasm than I had a month ago.

I wonder what Brandon was thinking, seeing all those empty tracks.

 

Oh, dear, no rush hour passengers! Unplayable!

 

Yes I noticed that too. JD try to sell the route with 289 services , the most out of the US route…. I guess he’s not wrong….. he forgot to mention that 1/3 of the services are yard moves

 

That's just TSW3 lighting.

 

I wasn't too focused on it. I know the timetable issues, so there wasn't any point in stressing over it.

 

All in all, the trains looked great. The scenery looked great, Boston looked fantastic with the new skies and the Acela. The timetable in Trenton is killing it. If it had the timetable it should the route would be 9/10

 

Maybe the same thing is affecting AI trains as well? Rewatched the stream, and all the pantos were down, and a couple of occasions when the headlights/tail lights were off or wrong.

 

A few minor "bugs" that could be implemented to improve NJT realism:

• Cab car numbering should be 70xx, not 71xx
• Coaches should be turned around 90 degrees, so the blanked lower level window is nearer to the locomotive (same as the cab cars)
• Door-closing sound should beep 8 times rather than 6

Trackwork and pathing looked great, although I do hope they have correct routing for NJT trains heading east/north out of Newark Penn Track 1, switching over at Rea/Harrison rather than Hudson.

 

Did Boston get more AI traffic. Even without the Acela looks busier especially around Boston

 

wasn't in the update notes. I think with the signalling update, it might have made it busier, but there is no additional ai traffic that I know of

 

As a heads up, I noticed a signal bug in today's stream where the ADU didn't drop from clear after passing the fixed Approach Medium signal: https://www.youtube.com/live/d-CjDN--xbE?feature=share&t=5460

Going from fixed signals of Clear > Cab signal 60 > Limited Clear into Secaucus seemed odd but maybe prototypical, idk: https://www.youtube.com/live/d-CjDN--xbE?feature=share&t=4841

Makes me worried about QA issues for signaling after the discussion about how much went into trying to fix it.

 

It's always been this way! It's easy to forget that Boston South Station gets VERY busy.

 

A general observation: it's clear to me now that gameplay, and in particular the timetable, should be the main focus of getting a route 'right'.

Compare and contrast - a community very unhappy with NY - Trenton due to the timetable despite most admitting that the scenery hits the mark. And yet London - Brighton, a route that is still riddled with various scenery issues and other bugs is held up as an exemplary route (by myself also) almost entirely because of the quality of the timetable.

I'm not sure how various aspects of a route are prioritised at DTG Towers but I'd like to see the gameplay and in particular the timetable shot right to the top of the list for all future routes. This includes the aspects which the timetable relies upon to function smoothly, realistically and comprehensively - signalling/dispatcher and as many appropriate locos included as possible (Peak Forest is in danger of suffering badly because of this).

 

Just finished watching most of the stream, here are some of my thoughts:

- Really enjoyed Brandon's interesting and highly-enthusiastic contribution to the stream. His dedication to make TSW even better is fantastic and I really hope he, and others like him, will continue with such in the future as it's things like this which makes the game even better.

- Acela looks great, will bring some really interesting gameplay to both routes - although, from the preview, I notice some flickering cab textures in the cab which may be a bit annoying. On the subject of Acela, very glad to finally see more loco DLC again which I think is really important for existing TSW routes/content to give them a fresh, new lease of life for timetable and gameplay.

- Boston with new lighting/skies looks great and really awesome to see on older routes, now please let London Commuter and Dresden-Riesa follow suit!

- First impressions of NY-Trenton: Penn looked very quiet and I noticed during the stream an AI train was clipping through the pillars, but no mention of it or whether this will be fixed in a post-patch?

- I think personally the NY-Trenton route does look very nice, especially the catenary. While it's a huge shame there isn't as many services/AI traffic as there could be, which I think is quite unacceptable compared with previous timetables from past routes i.e. Rush Hour etc, however there were actually more trains encountered throughout than what I initially expected, so that's a plus.

- I like the service variety with NY-Trenton - especially Acela and longer duration NJT stopping services which last almost 1hr 30mins - which increases replayability in the long-term. Also, an important point which makes routes like this more interesting to me is having more than one loco - which newer modern UK routes need to learn following Cross City and E-G. But, what I will say is if the NY-Trenton route ever gets more NJT and even LIRR traffic etc then I reckon this route would be very special alongside the likes of London Commuter.

- I must say, overall, this whole preview was going to be very important to whether the content was worth getting. Acela is a must for me as I quite liked the Boston route regardless - as with the other Rush Hour routes - but what surprised me is that after the preview I'm very tempted to get the NY-Trenton route soon too as I can see having a lot of enjoyment here and reminds me of Peninsula Corridor which I loved back in the day.

- On a final note, what I want more from DTG in the future are more routes that interlink with each other as part of a wider network so we can have the same services seen across several different routes - Acela is a fantastic example of this and really adds to the immersion of going all the way from Boston to Trenton etc, so more NEC routes please!

 

I didnt feel the need to bring up the cab conformity issues mid-stream since we're aware of them internally. Good catches though. Thank you =)

 

I think it's always looked pretty busy around Boston South approach and throat during Rush Hour because services from off - route MBTA lines coming in and out were included as AI.

 

Good summary, that’s what I’m taking away from the stream as well.
Seriously considering getting NY-Trenton and possibly the Acela if I really end up liking the route and desire even more service variety.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth. The was the first Rush Hour route and I remember positioning myself on the platform and being awed by the number of services coming and going. The Acela only adds this.

 

Agree. In my opinion this should be priority #1. This could set the future of all future routes. I mean is so frustrating because I know the talent is there. We just need a commitment from DTG to say, “we hear you and acknowledge your concerns. We are going to make it right”

 

Absolutely agree with you on this - a decent timetable can make a good route a great route, and a great route (in terms of gameplay from more branches, more locos/services, an interesting route which isn't boring to play etc) to an amazing route.

A rich timetable which has a varied service variety from ones that last a few minutes up to an hour really add to the immersion and busyness of an overall route - add more locos and it's a win-win. For DTG, their main objectives for a new route's timetable must importantly:
- Offer freshness and long-term replayability
- Try to be as busy as the real-life route where applicable
- Variety of long and short services, with added variety of ECS, depot moves etc
- Use as much existing TSW content such as locos where applicable i.e. no one-loco routes or empty large stations

To me, timetables are the most important aspect of any route - I don't want to use scenario planner.

 

100% agree!!

I think sometimes the devs are a little too reliant on Scenario Planner to fill in the gaps- even if it had more pathing options and an actual consist editor, there's a huge section of the community that has no interest in those tools.

I've said it so many times, but timetable mode is TSW's selling point- every route should start with a rock-solid timetable (busy or not, depending on the route).


I won't speak for others but i want to drive trains, not moonlight as a software developer lol!

 

100% agree. I’m hoping they listen to the community

 

I believe these part of a long standing issue, it’s not on all but a lot of locos/cab cars. Not always in the same place for each, turns out the monitor is the Acela’s by the looks of it.

Same issue with a similar American loco is it’s on the in cab signal aspect display panel on the ACS-64 for another example

 

Well. I have watched the stream to Newark Airport so far. Even knowing beforehand about all the timetable and AI issues, the sheer emptiness was still a shock. It might be interesting for some to drive the different locos up and down the line; in this sense, you could probably say that the route has value in a fun, but fictional, sense. However, if you consider this as the the train simulation representation of the actual rail line between Trenton and NYP, then it is not fit for purpose. So it all depends on what you are looking for, and there are probably some routes that I enjoy that are rather unrealistic but it doesn't bother me, because I'm not aware of it. However, I would be hard pressed to describe any TSW route that is farther from the actual thing, than this one is, except the original NY Gateway that this one is based off of, which of course also came out much earlier in the TSW life cycle. For where we are at right now with TSW3, to release a route like this? To me, it is inexcusable, and deadline or no, I would not have released it like this. If it was this difficult for DTG to even get this many services onto the route, it is hard to imagine them putting in the work to get enough additional services on to make a difference, and in any case they have made no claims that any improvements will be made. I am truly very sorry, I have no intent to degrade others and I'm sure that people did put work into this route, but to me, this time, it really is that bad.

 

I haven't read thru all the replies, but wanted to comment on the PIS thing. I remember they asked for feedback or references to add and I even took some videos and such and share them but they only complained that the ones that are along the nec always said train approaching because they only wanted train information references. Again I also shared the newer mbta signs they have slowly added to the mbta lines in the last year or so but didn't get much update on that. Again I know it's a lot of work and the Boston and Providence segment technically has 3 different kind of PIS, Amtrak ones at Amtrak stations and now mbta ones and warning ones at places like Mansfield. But to not even try to make a single one. And again to not try to make anything new for again a price increase route just seems lazy. I said it once and I'll say it again, look at all the care and love truck simulator gets, I know there issues here and there but they try there best to make sure everything is like it should be, every release feels more and more lazy from dovetail, they couldn't even do the full route from NYC to Philadelphia like ts classic just that alone should be a massive complaint, I was hopeful when all the tsw3 routes where 80 miles + that would continue but I guess not. Do better dovetail.

 

It sure was. I’m from NY. So I’m very aware of the NEC. As you said.at this stage that we are in, 5 months into TSW3 for this to have come out is unacceptable. I’m mean 19 pages and counting. Is just frustrating,the potential is there to make this the best and busiest US route in the game.