I really hate to say this because I have been a big fan of train some world since the original but with this recent release has really kind of shown the quality has gone downhill I just cannot justify buying these products if this is going to be the quality level releasing it I think we need to rethink where dovetail is going with how they're releasing their products like you just dropped a wave of content that clearly was not ready to come out or if it was it was rushed for sure there was so much more that need to be done and some of these glitches are just on forgivable and/or bugs however you want to call it and I really hate to say it because a lot of the team at dovetail are awesome people but I for one have to really think if I want to continue supporting this
Where are The Core updates DTG? My purchase dropped significantly after I realized how neglected are some core features, and it came so naturally, now I just watch new-relase on forum adding here and there my point, and sometimes go back to german passenger train where boarding works somehow or go old us freight. I naturally lost interest in new content (starting from Birmingham), like you are loosing interest in badly made sitcoms or badly made food. It is just natural and I think I can live with Clinchfield in current shape, or other old route (I have almost all of them) but that would be it. Maybe I allow to be gifted some cheap packs (like loco or livery) as presents but thats it.
Unless I'm mistaken we've had 3 new DTG routes released for TSW3 1) BCC - solid release 2) BBO - a shocking release in terms of quality and bugs, but had a good varied timetable and well below standard, but in fairness to DTG was quickly patched up to a reasonable standard. 3) NYT - another shocking release and a half baked timetable. Will this be patched as quickly as BBO and timetable brought up to standard? I'm not holding my breath given the lack of assurances over the timetable from Matt
Definitely some quality points but one solid release doesn't make up for the lack of quality going back to rush hour really I mean there was probably a couple other quality releases in there but even still the quality is gone going downhill rapidly
Dtg have released numerous core updates. Save game improvements, improvements to red lights and pathing. In patch notes, there's a separate section on core updates whenever there is one
You're skipping ScotRail, which was likely the worst release for TSW3, based on the number of fuming posts seen in these forums. I don't know the whole story, since I tried to avoid the forums completely for two weeks after the release, but I haven't seen much since then, so I assume things have got better after patching.
Where is this section? Anyway thats how I slowly drift off the STW, I care about core immersion elements (physic, sound, passenger and safety system) and they are far from good in most of the routes I own. Not mentioning small irritating things like seat height to low or to high (I drive HUDless so Im very sensitive of that), artificially sounding horns (SPG), loco lights too weak, EOTD mounted on the front, no banking comm, bad DPU, broken timetables and many more...
I discounted that as its a rivet route rather than a DTG. It hasnt been patched yet (but one is incoming) but even now its very playable and enjoyable and I'd put it in the same bracket as BCC in terms overall quality currently. Solid but not spectacular.
Regarding NY-Trenton: I'm from the UK, so I don't know how busy it is in real life, but when I watched the stream, it felt kinda dead. I would've been ok with that (even if the timetable is slimmed-down), and would've BOUGHT the route, if: There were no missing catenary sections. There were no AI trains running with their pantographs down. There were no AI trains running with wrong headlights/tail lights (or without any lights). There were no AI trains running with their doors open. There were no big gaps in the timetable (see the other topic for more info). There were no pillar clipping at NY Penn. You increased your prices, now it is £30, while quality is going downhill. And you guys say that the missing catenary was in a previous build? Did you check the release build AT LEAST ONCE?! I'll be brutally honest: for £30, the latest NY-Trenton route is an insult. Period.
BCC wasn't that good with whole areas of incomplete scenery, south of Birmingham. Lineside fencing missing along the canal, the canal itself having a visible height gap between two of the decals. A freeware author would shudder at that let alone something you're paying £30 for. I'm assuming issues like the sound drop out entering New Street and incorrect train lengths on the PIS were fixed. BBO still has level crossings where road vehicles ignore the barriers. I'm just hoping the upcoming releases I'm actually interested in raise their game, particularly as I'm now in the market for both PC and PS5 versions.
NYT is really well above the first nec of TSW the scenery was really awful and the stations... bad. and the rolling stock 2 trains. the ACS 64 bad SWR 1000 idk and the pilot coach idk I remember that I put 10 euro on that for 10 it was already too expensive
That's like comparing Rivets West Cornwall local to Isle Of Wright original and saying because it's better then it's acceptable.
The last route I purchased was Edinburgh to Glasgow, played for less than an hour and refunded it! Normally I'll buy every route on day 1 but now I'm not looking to buy anything! Maybe and that's a big maybe! The upcoming steam route may grab my attention. But anything between that I have no interest. Possibly a sale when it's reduced to a fiver but I'm not paying 30 quid just to report back to dtg all the problems it comes with. They should be paying me for that.
Eh, honestly I've been with this game for quite some years now, and the recent releases aren't under some standard. There have been some issues with recent releases, yes, but every release has had those. The quality in general, and just the amount of features is still consistently increasing. With the exception of NY-Trenton timetabels are miles ahead of where they were pre Rush Hour. Signalling systems have only gotten better, with NY-Trenton and the Boston update fixing US signalling, Kassel-Würzburg taking LZB to a whole new level and SEHS extended improving UK signalling a bit further. We have selectable brake modes on German stock now, we can use the in-cab phone to contact a signaller, we have had some really interesting new locomotives (Acele, BR 110, class 323, BR 612) in recent releases, which finally broke the monotony of the releases before them. Look, I'm not saying that the issues with DTGs recent releases are not important, or should be accepted, but I really don't see why one would percieve a sudden downturn in quality, when there hasn't been one in my opinion. If I think back to playing TSW 2020, back in the time where there wasn't even car traffic on the roads, let alone working level crossings, and when not a single safety system worked anywhere near how it should, I think quality has definetely increased. The issue is that there just is a higher standard now, with more features that can be bugged.
NYT is a stunning one for me, with the timetable. I actually love the route in general, think it was a great choice, and the fact that it came out on day 1 with a DLC train to add to it was great. We get a lot of trains to operate here (3 locomotives, 2 cab cars with the Acela added). I'd say no glaring bugs so far (plenty of bugs for sure, but most seem relatively simple to fix). BUT the fact that they just decided they didn't have enough time to complete the NJT timetable kinda stuns me. In 2023, after all the advancements TSW has gone through and the fact that we KNOW what DTG can do and what the game can handle... to just say meh, times up, here you go, a massively busy commuter route IRL with a ghost town for the actual commuter services. Feels like what they did with LIRR except at least back then there was a real excuse, since it was a different state of the game and there were technical reasons. I feel like they must be ending their fiscal year or something and had to pump this out and get the revenue flow before a specific date. The potential is still there but they really need to address the timetable on this route. There is precedent for upgrading timetables/traffic after the fact (RT, Hamburg, Bakerloo, BML all got it). This route definitely needs that treatment and I hope it doesn't just get thrown aside so they can go full steam into the next UK/German stuff.
I do agree that the NJT timetable slightly undercuts my point of quality haven risen in general. That was honestly a dissapointment to me, but I don't think it's a reason to call this a trend yet.
What improvement? The platform clipping? The sections with missing overhead wires? The AI trains with no pantographs? The lackluster timetable? Come on.
Honestly I can't think of routes that haven't had issues like that on release. I'm not saying this is OK, it just isn't, and I had expected DTG to work issues like that by now. It's just that I don't think the quality of routes is on a downward trend. On NY-Trenton I understand some people are dissapointed, and I'm one of those, but there's still room for post release fixes. And even if NY-Trenton stays like this, it doesn't mean all releases are getting worse, this at the moment is an exception to the rule.
The UP Heritage pack is one of the worst DLC's I've seen for TSW, how the hell was it approved with its horrible texture glitches and errors?
you are a small player already the vast majority of the bugs you cite are already analyzed to be patched I remind you that RT for example had a field problem Not now and buy TSW 2020 or TSW 1
An exception to the rule? I can't agree with that. DTG increases prices and all their DLC's have been riddled with issues. Unless you can deal with it, I can't say that the quality has improved. Frankly it's gotten worse. They basically recycled parts of the original nec route to this new route despite telling players that porting the nec over would be too difficult. Thr UP heritage pack from what I've seen is an absolute joke. It has bad texture glitches and obvious errors. Bremen-Oldenburg's release was ridiculous but at least surprisingly DTG put the bandages on that route farly quickly. Edinburgh-Glasgow (A route published by DTG) is a mess. I don't understand how can a member of a community get improvements out of the door in two hours but a game studio can't sort errors out before release. If a company is going to increase prices, then the quality has to improve. It can't be that a company cuts corners and rushes things just to meet deadlines. Companies like SCS or TML studios which are smaller than DTG don't do this and games like American Truck and Euro Truck get the praise they get for a reason. I just can't say quality has improved with the release of recent route dlc in my opinion
I have bought every DLC since the CSX Heavy Haul Beta and I can honestly say the quality is improving. There are always going to be bugs in new releases, as with any software, but it's clear that they work hard to address these. That does not mean that there is still not room for improvement though. In particular, the quality of audio in TSW has improved significantly since TSW3. Not just the quality of the sounds but the way they are mixed really adds to the immersion. The depth of services with the addition of layers and improving signalling and safety systems to function as realistically as possible has really added to my own enjoyment.
People keep buying the lacklustre stuff, so don't expect a sudden jump in quality going forward. I've ended my route collection with TSW2 stuff and will still enjoy it from time to time. But nothing TSW3 branded will be added to my collection given its poor performance. Better off spending my money on other hobbies like MSFS where the developer puts more care into a quality product.
I like MSFS too (crazy how well they made it run) but not perfect as anyone from Toronto could tell you:
To which they have already acknowledged and will be fixing. Again, a developer that acknowledges issues and communicates timelines to fixes in a well thought out manner.
I agree, in general I feel the quality has improved. Yes, there are bugs as there have always been but to me the newer routes are better than the earlier ones. And, despite some ironing I feel TSW3 is an improvement. The two main problems with the NEC route seems to be that the core of it has been re-used with some of the faults like the clipping through the pillars not being attended to and the poor representation of the timetable. Cross City for example is of very good quality both the route and the train, they fixed most of the issues with it, I don't think they did a very good job of making the Barnt Green to Alvechurch look better granted, but apart from that it is a solidly good route as far as I am concerned. The Rivet Scottish route and train, from what I can see I wouldn't say are badly built, just beset by sloppy errors and features not being implemented properly. The two Dresden routes are nicely built and the Bremen route was quickly fixed and has nice features. People will define quality differently. Personally for me bugs are not necessarily a sign of bad quality just poor implemention, testing and rushed deadlines. Trains clipping through pillars are a sign of poor quality, if the TSW2020 version had never existed I suspect NY Penn wouldn't have these issues, as it would have been built freshly.
Personally, I think the main problem isn’t the quality of add-ons being released it’s the lack of consistency. For me, Birmingham Cross City set the bar so high with the brilliant timetable with timetables running into midnight, high quality realistic signalling and the Class 323 is a work of art. Now, I still very much enjoy Edinburgh-Glasgow but it seems it was missing a lot of the features introduced previously by DTG which is a step backwards, AI timings, lack of a comprehensive full timetable, dispatching on a red. Thankfully there will be an update in place. And thanks to members of the community we’ve seen some hard work with sounds/scenery and lighting. I said that once Edinburgh - Glasgow is updated again that will set the standard for further DLC’s. But for me the biggest problem really is consistency, if new features are going to be introduced each time then they should be implemented to older DLC at the same time too through a patch.
Last route i bought was london to brighton. Not really interested in anything lately due to issues on them and the game play aspect, for example timetables and 1 route 1 train. No thanks.
I couldn't agree more.I think the quality of each new release has gone up despite the bugs.Graphics now compared to TSW 1 are hundred times better and there are so many new saftey systems and signaling systems now compared to two/three years ago.Yes there are bugs but they are mostly sorted out within weeks. I can't help think these forums are just used to bash DTG nowadays when I actually think they deserve praise for constantly looking at improving the game upon each release
I don't think anybody here is bashing dovetail games as a matter of fact compared to some other companies they're pretty good The problem I think most people are having is the fact that one the price is gone up which granted is inflation I'll give you that two you're asking people to spend what is quite a bit of money on a route and you can't launch it in a buggy state especially with trains driving with doors open like that should be caught in in testing this stuff should not be slipping through the cracks and glitchy safety systems this stuff is easy to catch how is it getting out and if people are bashing them this is probably not the theater to do it in because that's not why I started it I started it for a straight discussion on quality and how I felt about the quality of recent releases
Honestly, fully expecting the reaction in the forum bashing the new route. People (customers) want to feel important, want to feel the power of "directing" a project, especially with the money spent on the product - not saying that they shouldn't, but there is only one DTG, and thus can only make one route, but different people prioritize things differently. As a person who lived in the NYC area for 6 years and took NJT on daily basis several years back (and now in LA area where Cajon Pass took place) I have to say I am impressed by the new route, even more so than the CJP. Yes it could be better with a busy timetable, the empty station is very disappointing and it truly is a sad missed opportunity, but NJT really captured the feeling of New Jersey pretty darn well. I have ran all the locos now (including Acela and both cab cars) and they are all very well done, despite some minor glitches, which can be fixed relatively easily. The DTG is indeed trying within a limited time frame. Not including something does NOT mean they don't WANT to. Also I think the pattern of development is pretty clear, in the very old LIRR route they are very new to the whole system and couldn't get the signaling work; Boston route they tried adding services; Harlem line they tested signals + large amount of services, and now this route they tried to combine everything they learned into it. While the progress is very slow, it is still happening. The fact that most (granted, not all) people complain about timetable and most other bugs are tolerable is kind of a sign that they did make progress. I mean, if people really hate the business model, they sure will stop buying, and the fact that some people still buy the game does not necessarily mean they still have "hope" in the product, but rather they don't care about certain factors as much as those stopped buying. Timetable is just one of those factors. After all, it is a big world, and it is impossible to satisfy every person, just like it is impossible to make a perfect product. BTW, I think most employees at DTG are as enthusiastic about trains as anyone care to post in the forum, but the company as an organization, needs to profit, which means they will have tight schedules, shoving products out of the door like a pipeline etc. It might be a toxic environment, but such is the reality. We as railfans, if desperately need a certain feature, can always 1. provide constructive, and rational criticism; 2. actively participate in the process just like Brandon did; 3. quit buying the route if it is so important to you. Constant complaint, keep shouting "I'm not gonna buy the route anymore" in the forum, seeking other people's attention or agreement, doesn't help anyone, and especially those people who are buying and enjoying the route, couldn't care less about these.
Agreed I think I have enjoyed the route more than most. It has a variety of service timetable. Could it be better of course. I do enjoy it more than Bremen and even BCC
People purchasing tw3 expect a great product. What they actually get is a bug riddled mess, along with false promises of fixing things. No dissrespect to you, but you seem like a new player to tsw. Have you played any other content?
FYI, started playing TSC since 2013, bought about 80 route DLC for that one and own all US content in TSW, 50%-60% route and loco from other countries. Probably played this game longer than most people here, had my fair share of disappointment, but glad to see the company grow.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around the supernatural aspects of TSW's New York - Trenton DLC. AI controlled locomotives (all electric) run with their pantographs down. The NPCs both teleport & levitate. I'm not sure if DTG is attempting to break into the magic / haunted field or what.
Not disrespect to you, either, I looked like new probably because my account is new and I haven't posted many posts here - because I previously only glance through the news and never really looked through the forum... oh boy the negatives here. On the other hand I have to say probably these negative comments pushed the company to make better products, which all of us are enjoying now, so credit to credit is due I guess, but recently these negative comments are just too much, to an unbearable level, nitpicking tiniest stuff. One could just simply say that, for example, the wrong door is opening or the PIS board is wrong or the pantographs are down while moving, and they are not realistic, but no, people always have to follow up with "this game is unplayable!" "DTG is lazy and uncapable!" or "Nothing ever changes!", as if these comments can make fixing the bugs faster.
They aren't nitpicking though. Theres a very good reason why you see all these negative posts, its because of the way dtg release broken content, promise fixes, and fail to deliver. The negatives are prevalent for a reason. My apologies for seeming so neagative, i, like many others on here want DTG to to succeed. They have a fantastic product. However it is let down by what seems like incompetence. On a seperate note, its nice to meet you
I haven't been this let down since the original rush hour release, till now that was the only dlc i ever refunded but after having a crash on my first run with the Amtrak cab car. Then riding around with low poly CDU while the acela trips itself for going 3mph under restricted. i couldn't deal with it anymore. The icing on the cake was watching the ai take my acela off the map after opening its doors trackside and driving off with it open. I like the feel and look of the locos i just dont like the bugs esp for the new and upgraded price of all these add ons. At nearly $70 after sales tax and fees i feels like its a let down. I bought bcc and that one was great in terms of looks feel and timetable. why does anything non uk and german seem to be duds. Acela
Nice to meet you, too. One of my first posts in the forum talked about freight layers in the Sherman Hill and Cajon Pass, and why there has been no layers of different locos on those routes, one person told me that the US content is always neglected, while the other person told me that even the same type of loco is different across different companies, so one cannot simply swap locos across different routes and companies. They are both on the same forum and yet their explanation is vastly different. I’m not gonna guess who has the right answer, maybe they are both right, or maybe they are both wrong, but it’s interesting to see that people have different perspectives. Now Sherman Hill is a missed opportunity for sure, I loved Sherman Hill in TSC, downloaded numerous scenarios from workshop back in the days, and the fact that Track 3 is missed in TSW is really downgrading the quality of the route quite a bit, for me that basically makes the route unappealing, but I still find many people enjoying the route because it is a change in flavor, and while I don’t think track 3 is gonna be added anymore, that’s the product that I have to take if I want that route and if there’s no other companies in this industry making that route. Insulting and complaining is never a great way to let other people listen to you, especially for such a niche hobby where DTG basically is monopoly, at least for now. As a side note, gaming industry is very well known as a toxic industry, toxic both in terms of work environment and community. I play World of Tanks, games from EA, and CD Project RED etc. the money grabbing and buggy product from DTG is faaaar from the worst, and it is one of the best companies in terms of improvements over the years, plus the difficulty in route building is always underestimated. At the same time, it just feels like that any new features introduced in one route is *expected* to be a standard feature in the next, but including all features is not very possible, to be honest. DTG has such a fast-paced working pattern and specific audience, that is not comparable to traditional games. BTW, just did another run on the route, 7:30 -ish from NY Penn to Rahway in the ALP-46. A pretty good run and decent amount of AI, with working signal(biggest improvement this time from DTG, I’d say), recommended.
I maybe wrong, but i think it's down to licencing. That's a legal minefield lol. With regards to you saying people are insulting and complaining. We are not insulting. We are are complaining because of dtgs lack of action. Our frustration has been a result of dtg lack communication, false promises, releasing broken dlc. Yeah i agree with you with regards to the gaming industry. It has become far too toxic. You comment on that pretty much sums up my feeling of the gaming industry. Ain't what it used to be, thats for sure. You actually have me thinking of buying this route route now. What platform you on?
Haha I guess DTG should pay me for advertising their route. Jokes aside, I am on PC. As for the route itself, I know that I'm most likely going to buy it even before it comes out, because of past experience and thus bias, but yeah I think it is still an above-average product: a complete route unlike Harlem, working signal, and very detailed scenery around the track from Newark Airport to Trenton. Not the best (none of the routes is best), but worth a try. If you are not very attached to the route, maybe wait for a sale. I guess I am trying to dig good things out with every route (even Sherman Hill), because if I keep my eyes on bad stuff, it is my mood that is ruined, not DTG's wallet, now that I have bought the route. Not buying Heritage pack, that's grade A money grabbing for me, but I see people buying and enjoying it, so may buy it on discount.
I mean I guess the question is is above average good enough for you because personally I hold them to a higher standard than just above average because they've shown they could do better on previous DLCs there has been a few good ones unfortunately just not a lot lately
Yes I know, that's why I emphasized it's interesting to see different perspectives. For me it's one of the best US route, probably not for someone else. Nonetheless, for every single route I try to see how other people enjoy it, maybe the route is interesting in its own way I've not considered before, so that I can get most fun out of it. Criticizing the route is one thing, but being mad about it and overwhelming the forum with a single message over and over again is another thing. Can this route be improved? Sure; Have we seen better routes? Definitely; but accusing the author of not WANTING to do better is not a great way to go, imo. I'm not saying you think that way, just saying I've seen such comments in the forum for too many times lately, and those comments are not helpful.
I'm definitely not trying to overwhelm anything I just posted my opinion and left it at that to be perfectly honest with you if other people want to add to that or disagree with it they're allowed to like I said in my original post I've been playing this game since the original train Sim world and I've seen a dip in quality overall I mean starting with textures for one and just roots in general there's definitely been a dip in quality if you go back to the original game and you look around and you look at this game of course things have also gone up in certain areas but the way they're starting to pump out content it's turning into a little bit of a I don't want to say noose but that's really what it's becoming because the content is lowering in quality while they're still pumping out more of it It's kind of a double-edged sword you're leaning on there if you know what I mean
Personally I was most disappointed with the Rivet track in Scotland and despite not being very familiar with the UK: - The sound of the BR385 is terrible and you can hear that even as the worst layman (regardless of whether the sound files are real or fake). - The vehicle has a playability like a tank in terms of track visibility (I know this is real, but still not fun). - Lighting in many places only mediocre. - The much-touted new details can hardly be enjoyed if the basic structure is not good. From there, this was only implemented half-heartedly (e.g. usable elevators). - I was really happy about the announcements, even if the service is choppy. But I can hardly enjoy that either if I don't really like the vehicle otherwise. But I probably belong to a minority, because almost 60% of the ratings on Steam are now positive, which I find unfair compared to the last good German DTG production (Bremen-Oldenburg), for example. Here it has a really good timetable with a lot of variety, great vehicles and an appealing look. And most bugs were fixed quickly(!), Rivet is still waiting for an update (it should come, I know). But hey, everyone has their own point of view.
Just to say I'm enjoying the Heritage pack. Having gotten SH before Christmas for 11 quid, and it getting an almost immediate update, I felt it worthwhile. I appreciate the insight from members pointing out the inaccuracies, and hope they are fixed.
DTG do great stuff, indeed. My personal problem with them is, how they neglect the support for previous addons, they forget we still play them, and we still see the same issues, glitches, bugs session by session, year by year (luckily to my mental health, Ive been playing it just for few months, Im sentenced to TSW as Xbx player But honesty I purchased Acela mainly to support them (Amtrak is fast enough on this route imho and ICE and TGV give better speed experience).
