Scenario Planner Formations

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by DTG Matt, Feb 27, 2023.

  1. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    We now have the ability in the core game to have formations which span multiple packages and ensure that all the required assets are loaded, hurrah.

    Not having this is the reason that there hasn't been a "Class 31 with coaches" for scenario planner, amongst other things you'd have expected to see I'm sure.

    So - now that it can be done, I thought - what else could be done?

    Adding formations is pretty easy, and while I don't want to attach "promise" or "timescale" to this, I thought i'd kick a conversation off here and get some thoughts on what you'd like to see and i'll see what can be done.

    Just break it down into a list of vehicles and the packages they would be from - e.g.

    TVL\Class 20, RHTT\RHTT, RHTT\RHTT, RHTT\RHTT, RHTT\RHTT, TVL\Class 20

    Notes:
    - This is just formations, not liveries or new vehicles etc.
    - Some may or may not be perfect - e.g. the Class 20 is missing the controls to operate the RHTT, but, I don't think that should stop the formation from being created?

    Let me know your thoughts - i'm assembling my own list but wanted to get community input as well.

    Thanks!
    Matt.
     
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  2. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for working on this. We’ve been waiting since TSW 2. Your ideas sound great- as much variety as possible please.
    Even if the cabs are unrealistic they can still happily be used for AI.

    One thing I would like is a correct taillamp. With these new formations we will see a lot of rolling stock crossing over to different routes and different eras.
    At the moment we have class 66’s pulling cement wagons with paraffin lamps on GWE. Or we have trains with no lamps or incorrect lamps on spirit of steam
    It’s not a massive deal but it’s something that bugs me.

    New wagons coming out have lamp irons where you can place a lamp manually. This is a great step but there are lots of rolling stock without this functionality. Perhaps something like you did for the steam engines where you can cycle through different lamps would be great?
    A modern railtour would not use a paraffin lamp on mk1’s for example so it would be nice to be able to switch to a modern flashing example.

    Thanks again
     
  3. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure where to start with all the possibilities!

    But I think a good place would be to ensure that all locos across the game have the ability to pull passenger coach rakes from the same country.

    IE; British Locos all having the ability to pull MK1,2 & 3’s. German locos all having options to pull IC, N Wagens & Dostos.

    For the sake of creativity, I would agree that not having the required controls is not an issue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2023
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  4. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Unfortunately that's not something that can be controlled in a formation.

    Formations are literally just the sequence of vehicles, whether flipped, whether they have cargo (and what) etc.

    The lamps presence are set elsewhere, and the type of lamp is usually a part of the 3d model itself.

    Matt.
     
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  5. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Matt, I have made a seperate thread about it and am wondering if you have a) viewed the thread and b) listed the ideas on there as I believe those formations listed need to be in game

    Any response is appreciated,

    Cheers,
    TrainGeek08
     
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  6. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Can you link me to it please
     
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  7. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Not at the moment but I can tell you what it's called, it's called Scenario Planner Consist Ideas, plus I tagged you in the thread too ;)
     
  8. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    That's great progress, nice to hear it! I will try to come up with ideas.

    But talking about formations in Scenarion Planner, would it be possible to do so Scenario Planmer does not flip every rollimg stock to face forward? Currently things like ABBA F7s, back-to-back locomotive pairs or cab cars don't work in Scenario Planner, as the rear cabs are always flipped to face forward, ruining the formation.
     
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  9. andrewandjane66

    andrewandjane66 Well-Known Member

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    For me it would be the ability to run the BR era diesels, that only come with freight consists, with Mark 1 and 2 coaching stock.

    So that's
    TVL Class 37
    WCL Class 37
    TVL Class 31
    TVL Class 20

    With
    WSR Mark 1
    SOS Mark 1
    NTP Mark 2
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2023
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  10. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Can we mix a SoS loco with a powered diesel at rear?

    For example Jubilee, 8No MK1, Class 37.
     
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  11. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    MP36 with Galleries and F40PH with Bi-Levels - honestly, something like this could be a rare sub in the timetable as it rarely happens IRL.
     
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  12. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    If you can de-couple the Mk3s from the HST sets then GWE/Mk3s would go nicely with everything from NTP, TVL, WCL, & WSR.
     
  13. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    This is amazing to read. Something I’ve been puzzled and wondering about for ages.

    Definitely all the British diesel and freight locos such as the 31, 33, 20 ( in pairs ) 66, to be able to have Mk1 AND Mk2 formations for stuff like rail tours, Double header locos . 2x 31s and an 8 coach mk1 would be delicious. You get the drift.

    a consist editor in the future like TSC would also be amazing. So many wonderful combinations to explore. Definitely more railtour options though
     
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  14. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Slightly off topic I know, but now we need some decent paths (and more of them) to use the trains on, as we’ve discussed before. As for specific consists I can’t say more than ‘as many variations as practical’ from whatever people more knowledgeable than myself have or will suggest.
     
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  15. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Much of this could be solved by being able to use portals, on A-to-B routes you could simply churn out trains in the other direction to make the drive busy.
     
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  16. Would be nice to have the ability to make any formation one pleases with the exception of compatible coupling.
     
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  17. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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  18. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    8F and Jubilee with 1 BSK "Support" coach

    08 / 09 >insert various amounts of UK wagons <

    I have so many in mind will need to make a list :p

    Hentis
     
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  19. aeronautic237

    aeronautic237 Well-Known Member

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    TVL/Class 37, SEHS/Class 375
    SEHS/Class 375, BML/Class 377, BML/Class 387
    SEHS/Class 465, ECW/Class 313

    And then there's probably something with the Class 166 from GWE as well! This is amazing!

    Ok let's not get our hopes too high. Nothing is ever concrete unless its on the roadmap - which it isn't.
     
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  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    SF F7 (on Cajon) with Clinchfield freight cars
     
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  21. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    Even though it is not 100% correct, I would love to be able to have the Br187 with 4 Dostos and a cab car. With an IC livery you get an (almost correct) new train to drive!
    So that would be:
    Br187/Dosto/Dosto/Dosto/Dosto/cab car
    And logically the other way around!
    Cab car/Dosto/Dosto/Dosto/Dosto/Br187


    And since that’s possible now, might we also get the possibility to choose the livery of the coaches in timetable mode? So e.g. if I would like to drive an Br146 in the IC livery. At the moment I can’t select the livery of the coaches in timetable mode- will that be possible from now on? Because this would bring a huge variety into the game!

    (And if we are talking about liverys (I guess it’s a bit off topic here, sorry): It would be awesome to apply the possibility of which livery spawns randomly on Ai ourselves! So e.g. If I want to see many Br185 in SBB cargo livery, then I could select on a bar how much of a possibility it is for the game so that when one of these locos gets spawned for an Ai train it has the selected probability!
    Just some thoughts though :D)
     
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  22. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

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    Formations using the Horseshoe Curve 89ft Flatcar with the Trash Flats and Truck Trailers Cargo. The Trash Flats and Truck Trailers are not used in any formation in the game by default currently.

    Two Examples:

    - SPG\CSX GP38-2 YN3b, SPG\CSX GP38-2 YN2 (Flipped), HSC\89ftFlatcar (Loaded - Trash Containers) x15

    - SMH\UP SD70ACe, SMH\UP SD70ACe (Flipped), SMH\UP SD70ACe (Flipped), HSC\89ftFlatcar (Loaded - Truck Trailers) x50
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2023
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  23. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Intermodal trains that mix the 56ft Husky Stacks and the 3 unit Maxi IVs. With separate formations for CSX, UP, NS, and BNSF.
     
  24. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    That's nice, but when do we get a real scenario planner? You should have discovered by yourself that the data model in .sav files is not good. You cannot mix stops and passenger operations, for instance, and it does not support to add new instruction types. There is a long list with wishes and it is about time to do something and keep the promises done when scenario planner was introduced.
     
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  25. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Well-Known Member

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    A freight engine pulling an Acela or a bunch of M7s/M7As/M3s, etc.

    One of the F40s pulling Amfleet cars.
     
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  26. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That would be the best thing overall with a new version of scenario planner. I’m referring here to the paths that are currently put into the routes often being incorrect paths routing trains onto opposite running track and there being fewer paths than are technically possible just for normal services that appear in the timetable. This would all work with the current scenario planner if the care was taken to get the paths right when making the routes.

    Matt told me that it was down to the simple tool they use to make scenario planner paths that isn’t as good as the one they use in timetables. I guess it is an automatic process and it just has a guess at what way a train would go and they end up as the paths that are included as the inaccuracies don’t get picked up by the human testers. You can tell which routes have had a lot of care taken with setting the paths and the ones where it is clearly a rushed job. It is so bad on some routes where it isn’t actually possible to run a train from one end of the route to the other on the correct track, let alone make a scenario with AI trains as well.
     
  27. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    How about enabling many of the passenger cars with the ability to be uncoupled there are a few german and UK that can't be.
    Why are the no tender frist SP options steam trains sometime would go tender frist.
    How about shorter passenger trains that can fit on routes with shorter consist options.
     
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  28. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I definetely need a BR 110 + IC coaches + Car wagons to simulate a BR 115 (renumbered 110) in front of an Autozug.
     
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  29. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    8F with coaches, including SOS Mk1s, WSR Mk1s, and NTP Mk1s and Mk2s.
     
  30. brfan#9132

    brfan#9132 Active Member

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    Here’s a few steam formations I would like to see
    Steam running tender first with coaches
    Steam with a diesel on the back to add a bit of realism with railtours
    And finally a double heading steam with coaches

    Diesel Formations
    TnT class 47 with a rack of MK1’s from SOS and MK1’s from NTP
    A Double heading class 47 with a rack of MK1’s from SOS and MK1’s from NTP
    and 37 and some of TVL stock on Passenger coaches
     
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  31. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    The moment I saw this thread. I thought of this. Who remembers the Old Clocker trains that ran Jointly by Amtrak/NJT which had ALP-46s Hauling Amfleet Coaches.
     

    Attached Files:

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  32. Pixelade

    Pixelade Well-Known Member

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    this means so much to us DTG Matt , thank you for listening and helping implement changes.

    I really hope to see scenario planner evolve to a state where we can also really customize the pathing of trains, set station arrival/depart times, adjust the weather, etc. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2023
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  33. elric#1386

    elric#1386 Well-Known Member

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    This is great news. Thank you DTG Matt for telling us about this.
    Some exciting times ahead for us players. But Please see that this happens, and doesn't end up getting pushed to one side and then forgotten about!
    Some great suggestions above, so I'm happy to let those that know what consists need to be implemented.
    Though saying that.. Definitely the old BR routes NTP, TVR, and SoS need the options of creating consists for all of their loco's.
     
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  34. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Dispolok MRCE & DB Baureihe 182 with Intercity coaches because on some routes in game it runs there as an Austrian ÖBB Nightjet service the exception being Hauptstrecke München Augsburg which is a DB Baureihe 101 Autoreisezug Innsbruck Hbf Hamburg Altona. HMA Nightjet 182 is Augsburg Hbf München Pasing as Kalman Imre to Budapest Keleti via Rosenheim & Salzburg Hbf
     
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  35. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    To quote my post from the Other Thread, I think, next to essential Formations like single 37s, some interesting like Formations unique to the DTGs scenarios would be fun in scenarioplanner.
    Just did a test run in trainig center with Mk3s, a Mk1 Brake coach and a 47, was great fun and looked awesome
     
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  36. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    MK3 HST coaches with the 47. I know it's not technically accurate as loco hauled MK3 coaches did differ from the HST set Mk3s but it's probably close enough for many. Perhaps the class 37 might be a stretch. But to phase a model railing saying, rule 1 can and does apply. So why not apply that rule to TSW3 when it comes to scenario planning. Whilst I'd prefer rule 1 never applied in service mode. Custom scenario consists should be up to the creator.

    (For those not in the know Rule 1 in model railways is "It's your model railway so run what you enjoy regardless if it's accurate)
     
  37. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I would wish longer civil engineers formations (seacows & turbots), pics attached (not made by me):

    l1.jpg

    l2.jpg

    TSW3_Meridian_1677534185_00.png

    TSW3_Meridian_1677534206_00.png

    While West Cornwall mostly is discussed as rivets failure, i think the 2 nice wagons they made deserve way more attention.
    Consist: - Cl40/NTP - WCL/Turbot 20x
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2023
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  38. brfan#9132

    brfan#9132 Active Member

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    Diesel wise for the railtour option have like a 33 37 and 47 they are mainly the ones on the back of railtours
     
  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Great news... not quite there yet so far as having our own consist editor, but a step in the right direction.

    For the UK the biggest caveat I would put in is that coaching stock rakes in passenger service *must* include at least one Guards brake vehicle, whether a BG, BSO/BSK, BFK/BCK etc.
     
  40. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    TVL Cl20: SOS/Brake Van 15x
    NTP: Cl47: WCL/Seacow 10x
    WCL: Cl37: WCL/Seacow 10x
    TVL: Cl31: WCL/Seacow 8x
    TVL: Cl31 8x (static consist for Scrapline)

    NTP: Cl47: 10x TVL/BBA (Coil / Steel Plates / Empty..)
    NTP: Cl40: 15x TVL/BBA (Empty)

    WCL: Cl37/ SEHS/MFA 15x (empty)
    WCL: Cl37/Cl37 / SEHS/MFA 15x (loaded double headed)
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2023
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  41. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    HBL\112, 101\Avmmz, 101\Bpmmz,101\Bpmmz,101\Bpmmz,101\Bpmmz,101\Bpmmz,101\Bpmmz
     
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  42. d.heal

    d.heal Well-Known Member

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    Class 20, 37, 31, 40, 45, 47 RHT and modern day Fright
    BR 101 Fright
    BR182 with ic coaching
    Br 155 on on coaching
    All locos with different power moves
    Class 33 and 52 (WSR) on br blue coaching
     
  43. Lil jj

    Lil jj Well-Known Member

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    ooh this is excellent news Matt. I can't wait to haul some american freight using a TGV duplex :)
     
  44. GTAGamer245

    GTAGamer245 Well-Known Member

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    Ideas for NEC consists:

    ACS-64 + MBTA Coaches
    ACS-64 + NJT Coaches
    F40PH 3C + Amfleet Coaches & Cab Car.
    F40PH 3C + NJT Coaches
    ALP-46 + MBTA Coaches
    ALP-46 + Amfleet Coaches & Cab Car.

    They should be easy to make as all vehicles use the same coupler. What do you think of this idea, Matt?
     
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  45. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Lots of good ideas here. Thanks folks, keep 'em coming.

    Matt.
     
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  46. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    We should be thanking you Matt, for making this possible in the first place :love:
     
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  47. Lil jj

    Lil jj Well-Known Member

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    LMS Jubilee + 4 Dostos Coaches + Class 52 (banking loco) + Acela powercar (This sounds stupid but it has to be done anyway)
     
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  48. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Matt, its always good to ask the community for Ideas :)

    And out of Interest, would something like a 5 Car Talent 2 be the same procedure as a new Formations of Loco and coaches, or would it be more complicated, as its not coupled together like a rake of coaches and would need a different Setup?
    If not, I`'d love to see 2 and 5 car Talent 2s, and two together like a 5+3 car formation, 4+3 and so on. They exist in all combinations of 2 to 5 car sets :)
     
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  49. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Unfortunately every talent 2 is virtually a completely new rebuild! It's a nightmare!

    Matt.
     
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  50. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Is there any sort of full list of the scenario planner formations already available?
     
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