Midland Mainline - Leicester To Derby & Nottingham

That's like saying all tsc routes can be made easily in tsw just cuz they exist. Tsc doesn't have a 24 hour timetable and not as detailed and complex as tsw.

Some freight routes for example are close to 200 miles long so recreating the entire thing is easy and should be really detailed is what you're saying. It also has to fit certain deadlines and they have a limited number of people and autogen has to be good enough to build a majority of the route almost perfectly so the artists don't have to as much manual building. That's on top of needing to build a whole timetable, set up simugraph, scenarios, etc.

And that's only for freight. What about passenger that is a lot more complicated to build every single station by hand, accurate ohle equipment, accurate scenery, a more complicated 24hr timetable, building multiple trains, etc.

One route a year isn't viable financially for dtg.

 

One route a year isn’t financially viable, but releasing new routes every month isn’t necessarily better. I don’t agree with the current DLC release model

 

Agree there needs to be a compromise - there are only so many short runs the market can take before it becomes saturated and I think that is rapidly approaching. Setting bugs and QA we had West Rhine which is half the length of its TSC equivalent (which also offers Koln to Koblenz). New York to Trenton had you crawling at slow speed to Newark then just over 40 miles where you might be able to get up a bit of speed. SKW managed it but only because most of the route is in tunnels and only has three stations/populated areas.

The current TSW paradigm not even going to give us logical complete routes, such as Inverness to Kyle, Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth, the Wherry Lines network. Even the eagerly awaited MML is a shadow of what it ought to be and don't get me going again about Peak Forest starting in the middle of nowhere (Ambergate) instead of Derby. Not saying we need 150 mile behemoths either but at least one or two releases a year need to be getting up to and over the 70 or 80 mile mark.

 

I think in all fairness, Skyhook games haven't been fully successful with their loco DLC (187) and their previous route DLC, so maybe they need to gain their trust with the community to deliver on a shorter route, before being offered the opportunity to increase on longer routes. Take Rivet and their WCL DLC, they extended the route and it wasn't up to standard.

Lessons need learning and when the 3rd parties deliver, then longer routes will be in planning. That is my opinion.

 

This time around, dtg are doing the physics and sounds and setup on both the 43 and 158. Skyhook does art, animations and gameplay basically. So it's not like skyhook is making the entire thing. Just the route and gameplay. So, the quality of the 158 and 43 depends on dtg and how they do it. So far, I've only heard good things about the rolling stock.

 

Looking forward to this. Born in Sheffield, I would have liked the route to start/end there. Spent so much time on those platforms. However, also spent many hours at Derby and Leicester, especially in the days of the regional rail cards. Remember arriving at Derby and seeing the APT parked up at the technology centre. Good memories.

 

facts, but 150 mile routes would be so nice, i would love to do london to manchester/liverpool or london to york. but yea, dtg need to stop this 50 mile route nonsense, we should be getting at least a few longer routes

 

i just realised that cajon pass and Clinchfield Railroad is longer than 60 miles Clinchfield is 64 while Cajon is 85 miles. The longest UK route we have in TSW is between SEHS and BML. So the only country that doesn’t get long routes is the UK, the most recent NEC route was roughly 60 miles as well. So it’s only the uk that’s been left out on that??? Derby- Leicester is only 30 miles (almost half of the NEC route). So we are getting longer routes in train sim world, but not in the UK for some odd reason??? the LGV route was about the same distance as the NEC that just came out. so dtg is listening but the uk is being left out as the uk has the highest number of routes under 40 miles with only 4 being longer than 40 miles which is E-G, NTP, SEHS and BML. Honestly that’s wild.

 

Is it not that Cajon and Horseshoe pass through empty terrain, while SEHS and BML have multiple settlements that take up more development time and space/ processing power?

Half of these arguement never make sense anymore, one minute it's we never got long routes, the next it will be a long route, but boring because no stops ( Kassell) or complaints about the scenery (WCL).

LGV is also booed because it has only 1 intermediate station.

Honestly, I feel what ever DTG these days, they won't win.

 

The trophies for ps are up for MML now. Must of come with the earlier update. Maybe next week release?

 

They were posted up last week I believe, or at least some were

 

I meant in the trophy list for tsw 3 on my console

 

Ah! Most likely then!

 

sigh… do you not get that it’s literally the same thing with most UK routes. apart from the inner city commuters most of it is countryside literally. New york to trenton is pushing 60 miles as well and most of it is built up land. Don’t sit down here and defend DTG religiously.

 

It’s always a tradeoff. The developers have often said that they’ve got a rough “resources budget” for any DLC to make sure they don’t lose money with it. For routes, the length doesn’t really matter, but instead the amount of stations and/or unique assets needed along the line.

For example, London Commuter (arguably one of the biggest and most complex routes in TSW history) was only possible because of these circumstances:

• Essentially re-used the Electrostar from East Coastway with an alternative variant and minor changes.
• Re-used the massively complex Brighton area from East Coastway.
• Between Brighton and the outskirts of London, much of the route is essentially always lined by trees, so no complex scenery at all in this part of the mainline.
• Many of the stations use the same basic assets such as platforms, shelters and footbridges.

The complexities essentially came down to a few bigger stations, the complex scenery in London and the massive timetable. The route still had to be delayed significantly and continues to struggle performance-wise (Rush Hour passengers were never enabled, for example), so this just highlights how much of a challenge a long mainline is despite re-using as much content as possible.

 

I'm not defending DTG religiously.
I'm pointing out how annoyingly stupid these types of comments are.

You are comparing two routes, in the US backwater lines that pass through pretty uninhabited terrain, to two route that, in comparison, pass through areas of intensive human activity.

 

They’re not defending DTG religiously. You are the one criticising them religiously.

 

Thank you!
I'll equally criticise them when it's fair and warrented to do so.

 

Lots of nice new pics in the roadmap article... https://profile.dovetailgames.com/l...es/article/train-sim-world-roadmap-april-2023

 

i mean at the end of the day i’m paying for the game… and the truth is when dtg do good i will praise them for it. I have every right to give constructive criticism which is what i do… i don’t just sit down and say dtg bad.

 

Those screenshots look fantastic. I think this is the most excited I've ever been for a TSW route. The release date, whenever it is, can't come soon enough!

 

backwater lines when i CLEARLY mentioned NYT which is quite long and is mostly built up but still has some distance to it. and once again i said that APART from inner city commuters most of the uk is countryside. for instance Carlisle - Preston is mostly countryside and has 3 stations inbetween. A long route with minimal urban areas like what. And you do realise most of these backwater railroads contain huge depots which still take up dev time. So don’t sit down here and start getting all riled up because i’m just giving my opinion and critic on why i think
routes need to be longer.

 

I can't understand why there will only be 1 freight layer on the MML? Doesn't make sense at all really.. I've seen loads at places like Sileby in the past...

 

1 freight layer is a little disappointing but its nice to at least see some rail tours and thankfully the ROG 37 on the route.

 

Also, wouldn't Toton be relevant for this route, forgive my Geography but I was under the impression it wouldn't be too far away?

 

Screenshots do look very nice. For the timetable, while I'm mostly happy they have lots of extras to provide variety, namely the 37 ROG, RHTT and some rail tours etc - however, just the single freight service seems a bit lackluster! Meanwhile, of the 72 and 59 158 and HST services respectively, how many of these are ECS/depot moves - I just hope the MML won't feel largely empty, although obviously there's a lack of suitable existing content for more which is understandable.

Also thrilled to see AI EMR HST services at St Pancras for SEHS which is great for immersion.

 

You have to realize some routes have parts that are reused. New york to trenton for example is an extension of the original new york route in tsw2020. That part didn't change a whole lot other than catenary, signaling and make it more high res. Even nyp is the lirr version and the station itself didn't get changed which is why there is still clipping. So the actual route building from scratch is less than 58 miles.

Sehs also had the track beforehand. Half of it was in the original which was mostly unchanged other than scenery and catenary. And the other half was built from scratch. Again, although total length is 90miles, everything is not rebuilt from scratch and turns out to be less than 60 miles.

And then for longer routes like cajon, there was a compromise. It was 80+ miles but the scenery ended up being less detailed.

Kwg is really long but only 3 stations to stop at, unchanging scenery, lots of tunnels.

Clinchfield also has monotonous scenery with trees everywhere and zero stations so it's not as complicated as bml for example.

People want routes to be more detailed so dtg has to include as much detail as possible which means it takes longer to build a route. Although skyhooks route isn't the longest, the roadmap says it took blood and tears to make it is detailed and close to life as possible while meeting deadlines. That's on top of creating the timetable, simulation aspects, etc. It's not just route building. Unless you want them to make a longer route in the same amount of time and want lower quality. Dlcs take hundreds and thousands of hours to make and you should appreciate it.

 

Could be down to licensing or lack of appropriate train. Idk uk railways but it could be one of those

 

Honestly i wouldn’t mind waiting longer for DLC, i don’t currently think even the routes we already get have enough time to finish being developed. Beta testing and QA, and proper dev time is something i don’t mind as yes i know a lot of man hours go into development. I don’t mind a slower dlc release schedule

 

I wonder if the licence for different freight operators means they can't copy their movements?

 

I believe a lot of the freight is GBRF...

But DB have Toton so there will still be a decent amount of traffic for the DB 66.
I think most people would rather have a bit of artistic license, ie using a DB 66 instead of GBRF if they can't get hold of that particular license.

 

Given the negative reaction to the IoW 484's ficticious livery, I'm not so sure.

 

Very disappointed with only one freight service. Is Radcliffe included? There's no coal traffic?

First impression of the EMT HST livery is that the colours look way off, and the side numbers on the PCs are in the wrong place.

JT built a wonderful TSC version of MML so I'll be reading reviews again before any purchase. It's a shame that freight gets almost completely ignored in the UK. Im getting a bit bored with the usual railtours for an excuse to run blue grey mk2s on modern routes, just stick some coal hoppers behind instead.

 

I agree, the colours look quite pale and washed out in comparison to images I’ve been looking at.

I’d love to see a more freight dedicated route in the UK, I know they’re not as prominent as in the US but we still run freight around our rail lines and this section of the MML will have a good number of services. I’m not a fan of adding rail tours onto every route possible, it feels like a cheap cop out to add more services.

 

Ratcliffe on Soar powerstation should be there as it's right next to East Mids Parkway. They might not however have built the line etc into the power station.

 

I can't understand the lack of freight on this route considering there is so much freight operational in the area. I hope DTG and their partners don't think that just subbing in the RHTT and ROG trains will now suffice. They will turn up in Peak Forest next!

 

Yeah, it just seems a wasted opportunity to me. I know we don't have any Freightliner locos or branded hoppers, but we could have layered the GWE HKA wagons in and squinted a bit.

 

Considering Toton is a massive freight works and lots goes to/from there I would have to agree. Lots of freight uses the section of the MML in this DLC including the ones to the Earles Sidings and the cement works on the Hope Valley line. Whilst we don't have FL or GBRf, it will definitely feel empty.

 

Considering the rather low frequency of the 158 in TPH, im sure there would be enough space for a lot of freight and even potential future loco dlcs.

 

RHTT Peak Forest.

 

Very disappointed that there is only going to be ONE freight service on the route. Even though they have chosen not to include the Toton depot I would still expect around 3-5 EWS branded freight services.

Freight is an after-thought yet again on another UK route.

 

I so hope DTG do that as a dlc?

 

JD said earlier in a thread, that because it was Skyhooks first passenger route, they've not had a chance to get freight in too.

"This is Skyhook's first passenger timetable, so they've been wrestling with the systems to ensure the passenger experience is as good as it can be. It does leave opportunities to add more freight in the future, and I've passed the feedback to Skyhook. This is what it will be released with, though."

 

The trophies:

 

Bet the depots won't look like that in the game,remove nearly all the locos bar one or two if your lucky!

 

This is a criminal habit we keep seeing in TSW, it does need to stop.

 

I'm baffled by the exclusion of Toton depot and yard. Could of done all sort of runs to and from there. The MML is a fairly busy freight route even now.

 

Preview stream just announced as next week Thursday 13 April.
Mike.

 

I would just put money on passenger services took Skyhook longer than planned.
JD has already said thats why no freight is in the release timetable.

 

Hey guys.

We’re just in the process of adding various bits and bobs of static freight rolling stock to sidings throughout the route. I have also made a few interesting suggestions, which will hopefully make the route look a bit more interesting and populated

We’re quite limited for time now, so I’m not sure if it’ll be ready in time for launch or added in a post release patch. However rest assured your comments and feedback are being heard.

As for actual freight services, more may be added in the future however I can’t promise anything at this stage.

Thanks