Midland Mainline - Leicester To Derby & Nottingham

Couple of issues which are holding me back from pre-ordering. Namely the some of the speed limit signs don't match the track speed (Noticed at the triangle the 10mph track speed was signed as 15mph as one such example), the HST doors appeared to remain open when departing. And the big one for me as someone who drives with no HUD predominantly was the lack of illumination on the Speedo needle making driving HUDless as night practically impossible.

That said overall I think it's a solid effort and the sounds of the 158 where in my opinion close to the best of any train on TSW.

 

This has been a feature for as long as I can remember in TSW. Why bring it up now? It's like that because O or B is always the acknowledge button, and it would be a lot more hassle if they were mapped to different buttons. I've put hundreds of hours into this game and not once do I recall ever having had to acknowledge both at the same time.

I've got no complaints from the preview stream (apart from Matt's usual bad driving techniques). I can't wait to play it. I'll actually be in Nottingham over the next few days so the route will be super fresh in my mind when I get back home.

 

I think they're just an attention seeker who wants to criticise DTG/ Skyhook no matter what they do. Just ignore them.

 

It's all valid criticisms tbh. He's perfectly entitled to share what he thinks and that doesn't make him an "attention seeker who goes out of their way to critise DTG or Skyhook no matter what they do". At the end of the day we all want a better game, and if nobody is there to tell the devs what to fix then nothing much would be.

 

With TSW 3 according to my experience :

Class 465 : one key for each purpose (AWS and deadman's pedal)
Class 375 : one key for each purpose
Class 377 : AWS and deadman's pedal are bound together
Class 313 : one key for each purpose
Class 166 : bound together
Class 395 : TPWS braking demand and deadman's bound together (?!) and AWS on another key

The key binding is all over the place I don't know if I did something wrong but there doesn't seem to be any means of changing this. IRL you won't push the same button and won't use the same reflexes. Another mystery ...

 

Haven't watched the stream (hopefully a YT digest will follow) but with the general favourable reception being aired above think I will chance a punt and pre-order.

 

I might have been impressed with the review. But it still won't be a first day purchase.
I just don't have any faith in any DTG product.

 

No feedback thread off me this time as I feel this thread can do the wonders and has been so far, thanks to londonmidland for starting this thread and for beta testing this fabulous route for us to enjoy starting next Tuesday

 

I just don't know why this wasn't standardised across all of them?

 

I second that!

 

This isn’t valid criticism.

“Great job, Skyhook, cutting out the single interesting piece of the entire route. This release is already a bust, please vote with your wallets and abstain from spending your hard earned money on this piece of junk”

It just reads like a toddler throwing a tantrum. They even admitted that they hadn’t watched the stream.

 

I have to agree on this one, if no service planned at least place static stock to mess around. But for sure not restrict an enclosed interesting part of a route..

I know players wait since a long time to get finalky a 158 and overall i think skyhook and dtg did a good job with the rolling stock.

Still for my personal taste there were just too many short cuts this year, even with this dlc. For now, im definetly stop buying anything for a while now and focus on sales until i see devs stop talking in excuses and start doing something to call tsw a sucessor.

 

I don’t know if it’s the length or the dull, lifeless environment.
It’s not a day 1 purchase for me, will wait to pick it up in the sales at a later date.
I hope who ever picks it up day 1, enjoys it. Especially if you live close to the main line as an added bonus to you.

 

I was impressed by the stream, particularly considering it's Skyhook's first UK and first passenger route.

Locos look excellent and sound great. There are some minor issues outstanding with the guard's door switches and the PIS but overall they're really nice. The night lighting on the locomotives and the headlights were also good.

The scenery is very good and the junctions and speed changes seem to keep things interesting. I was particularly impressed by the custom assets at some of the stations. The yards are well populated too. Signal emissives are noticeably improved from recent releases - I believe we have londonmidland to thank for that.

The only part of MML which I'm a little hesitant about is the timetable - although Skyhook are to be congratulated for avoiding using AI timings, the route does seem quiet and it's a shame that more freight services weren't included. It will certainly need a couple of loco DLC to fill it out a bit more - perhaps a Class 222 Meridian and a new freight loco with the accompanying services?

In addition, I'm delighted to hear that (even though there are no concrete plans right now) Skyhook have futureproofed parts of the route to introduce more content later. They seemed to hint at locos rather than extensions but there was talk of building upon the (solid) foundation which is a really positive point. Rather than cranking out new routes constantly, the idea of taking one and enriching it with a stream of new content is an exciting thought for the future and really plays to TSW's strengths; SEHS-X is now becoming a good example of this, especially with the forthcoming Class 700.

Minor issues aside, I think job well done by Skyhook, DTG and the beta team. I've pre-ordered and am looking forward to playing. Keep it up!

 

Same. That would be better.

Imagine the PZB keys being different between each German train, haha.

 

The raildriver keybinds for PZB are different?? There's atleast 3 variations and at least one loco has the engine shutoff binded to where another had PZB..

 

Don't know about the cross compatibility issue, but the 'q' key on pc's has always activated the alerter and AWS on UK routes and it also functions in US routes to clear the alerter, ACT and ACES on both Boston and New York routes. Same holds true for Rail Driver's alert button.

 

No wonder they postpone it... after preview it leave impression of half-baked especially stations details, emptiness, train sound (no rail sound) and train details and textures. It can wait for patching and expansions, no rush is my feeling.

 

This is feedback I gave in the last survey. I hope it is their strategy. I buy all the DLC that fill out and make existing routes busier and more varied.

 

Honestly after watching the stream I’m not overly impressed, the units are good and sound good, unfortunately that’s where the positives end, the thing that’s annoyed me is the freight service and one 37 is gone until an update, false advertised in the articles tut tut, the inclusion of a steam tour I couldn’t really care about, route looks very dead I’ve seen far more activity in the graveyard in rivets Glasgow to Edinburgh, come on skyhook, stop half arsing stuff, and show us what you can really do

 

Come on. You and I both know that ain't gonna happen, at least anytime soon. Skyhook's Lead Technical Designer was on the stream, and he admitted to not knowing how any part of the railways work so that's very promising...

 

I did not know that. I only play with my keyboard and they thankfully are the same between the different trains for the PZB.

 

The route looks like a graveyard because it’s a realistic timetable. Which is what everyone has cried about on other releases. You can’t have a realistic timetable with two trains and expect a heavily populated route.

 

After watching the stream, roll on Tuesday!

Very very impressed!

The speed limits are incorrect in places, I’m sure a patch will fix that!

Feeling very excited by this!

 

Hardly constructive though is it, just calling it junk? Even if you are outraged about a small part of the route being inaccessible it is hardly balanced just calling the complete route junk. He isn't "telling the developers what to fix" he is just being obnoxious frankly.

 

Fine, maybe my initial reaction was too harsh, spoken out of frustration. The wasted potential of this route is irritating me.

 

Overall, I am impressed with the route. It looks well modelled, the stations in particular, and the scenery looks like a very good representation of the area. The trains too are very well modelled and sound good. I was actually more impressed with the look of the HST than the 158, I thought it looked stunning, the 158 is very good too.

I still think though that it is too short. The HST services in particular do not last long, I still think Leicester to Nottingham and Sheffield would have been far more appealing. The other point which disappointed me, although it is down to the timetable being realistic I suppose, is that I could only spot one or two services using the 158 which are self contained in the route, so you can't be the driver on the same unit for a complete shift. This is the problem with routes where all the services come in from one end and out of the other, apart from some of the HST services which terminate at Nottingham. It won't bother many but for me it is one of the immersive features of some routes, like the class 166 on GWE or the Cathcart and Cross City routes etc.

Also I do hope some more freight is added as the route is quite quiet. I also think a class 222 DLC would benefit it greatly and maybe a class 153 or 156. As nice as the trains included are there won't be much variety really.

Overall I am erring towards buying it but only because it is Skyhooks first UK route and it is a rare diesel UK route, otherwise it would be a sales purchase as I don't think it is long enough personally.

 

Well, I watched the stream. There's nothing really wrong with this route. The two trains look decent, the scenery is well- modeled. It's diesel, which makes a change from the " electrostar " pattern of late.

But, frankly, I was more than a little bored. Nothing sets this dlc apart from all the other UK commuter routes I already have. If I bought it, I might make a few runs up and down the line and then I fear it might end up in the " rainy day " closet, like BCC has


I guess I'm looking for something akin to NTP or TVL. So, if SHG were to add a freight pack and/ or some heavy diesel content, to mix it up a bit, I might bite. Vague promises of future upgrades are not enough. Proof will be in the pudding.

After buying NYT and BCC and almost popping for EDG, and being disappointed each time, I'm more and more wondering if I'm really getting my money's worth with TSW. $40 is not chump change these days. I feel I need to be more selective and give this one a pass, at least for now.

A freight pack, with some switching, MGR coal runs and a sale price might loosen my wallet at some point.

 

Saying “This release is already a bust, please vote with your wallets and abstain from spending your hard earned money on this piece of junk.”, is harsh. If you we’re talking about West Cornwall Local, then I would agree with you. WCL makes the MML route look highly professional. WCL is the only route where I feel was a waste of money however it wouldn’t take much from Rivet to put it right, but I cannot see that ever happening.

Skyhook to me have worked extremely hard to produce an amazing route with potential for future expansion. It’s a winner for me and I am happy to buy it for my xbox at £29.99. Money which will be well spent. It’s a shame that there is not a discount for console preorders.

 

For some reason the route preview didn't impress me so much, like for example the preview of Tokyo Commuter for TSC a day earlier. Maybe it's because it felt very empty and lifeless, after the earlier preview of a very busy route. It definitely won't be a full price purchase for me (unlike the Tokyo one, which I plan getting sometime soon after the release, after viewing some more videos from players). This one maybe on winter sale or Festival of Rail next year...

 

Yes, that was me who advised SHG on which RGB values to use for the signals, for which I usually use for all my Enhancement Packs mods (that's still coming btw)

 

Thanks for all the comments guys. I know this sounds cliché but your feedback is really valuable to us! Notice that something that looks off or something which could be improved? Please comment down below!

I for one want this add-on to be a big hit. With all my fingers and toes crossed, I'm hoping I'll be able to make the route look a bit more 'lifelike' by adding lineside clutter, station clutter, some fun 'Easter eggs' (cat or donkey stuck on the roof? ) etc.

No promises on anything yet but I'm hoping to add a little bit of my 'magic touch' to this route at some point. Especially as its my local

 

I agree about how the comment wasn't the best but i was more disputing the idea that people who point out inaccuracies are Attention seekers who go out of their way to look for things when in reality that just isn't the case. We're all passionate people, we want the game to be the best it can be and the best thing to do to help is to point out the issues.

 

Very pleased with the stream, route and locos looked very solid. May need to have another look at the scenery as the journey was quite monotonous and boring at times (although this probably comes down to the nature of the route itself). But the scenery clips in the 9 in 9 segment were very impressive, can’t recall getting this “wow this is a big city with many unique buildings” feeling in TSW often.

 

In my experience it's "Q" for all of them. The only trains with a separate Acknowledge button are the German ones where PZB Ack has its own mapping.

 

On the fence....

Passenger volumes low
No lineside clutter
Nothing jumped out at me that made me want it (except the suggestion the route could get EXTENDED)

Loved the trains and sounds, just not sure I'm there to buy the route until its busier


I can't help but think of south London network on tsc, loads of interesting junctions and movement happening. I want that feeling of weaving across a network in tsw. Picking my way across junctions. This is why tsw need to get these extensions sorted so routes are more interesting with more junction crossovers

I'm wondering if it will ever happen as memory issues were flagged again today

 

Noticed a couple of recurring bugs from the GWE HST.

- All Mk3 coaches displaying the leading power car number
- All coaches labelled as 'A' instead of A, B, C, D etc.

 

The route looks OK, the trains models also look nice. I noticed that the headlights light a bigger area in front of you which is a very welcome change. Still, no gsmr on the HST(how hard can it be, the 158 has it), the snow effect is the old one and in general a lot of little things that in theory will be fixed by a patch. The question is when will it come? I would really hate to see a patch that fixes half the issues and then the route left on its own because Skyhook or DTG move on to other projects.

 

Overall it is going to be a good release. The scenery is good, night lighting is good, the HST and 158 are also good, and the sound is excellent.
Yes, there are some bugs with the signals and speed limits that I hope will be fixed soon, but nothing that seems too difficult to get fixed.

My only problem with the route is that, as many others, feels a bit empty. In my opinion, Skyhook should have thought of a couple other trains that fit in the route and sell them as additional DLC at release or soon after.

 

Not extended, but a loco addon. They laid the extra track to future proof it if a loco dlc released. He was referring to the inaccessible new track as extended rather than laying more track.

 

.....Don't feed the troll

 

Some of my feedback from tonight's preview of MML:

Positives
- Great to see the Class 37 ROG using the 377 and 387 from London Commuter to complement the 375 from SEHS.
- Seems to be some variation to 158 services, ranging from 20-, 30- and 50-minute-long examples which is good; also seems to be quite a few ECS moves too which is another positive.
- Like that the timetable for the HST has both 6+2 and 8+2 formations.
- A good idea that Skyhook have future-proofed the route with potential for expansion - think DTG should really follow such approach in general for more of their routes as sometimes it feels like a lot of new routes (with exception of SEHS) seem to then hardly ever get seen again whether regarding new dlc, timetable and/or scenery updates etc.
- Nice to see GSM-R at least functional.
- Love the sound and look of both the 158 and HST.
- Great to hear Skyhook looked at community route suggestion ideas from the forum to decide which route to do.
- Scenery looks great overall, well done to Skyhook.
- Like that sidings have some static rolling stock which is great for immersion.
- Just love the HSTs for St Pancras with SEHS!

Negatives
- Feedback to DTG in general but I still don't understand such logic of having the first preview stream so close to the on-sale date, meaning post-patches are needed to fix bugs which is annoying.
- While I love the addition of Class 45 and 66 railtours, why do they have to be at 6am and 10pm instead of daytime? Also, a question to Joethefish but as the preview shows these Class 45s going to/from St Pancras, will these be seen along with the HSTs in SEHS?
- Note to DTG Alex but I notice a couple of issues. Firstly, in the Class 66 timetable menu from the stream a typo says one of the RHTT services lasts approximately 21 hours and 16 mins long! Also, spotted a speed board error (see 33 mins, 21 seconds into stream) which shows 15mph, though HUD says 10mph restriction.
- What's with the blurry glare of 158 windscreen view from the cab?
- My biggest issue with the route unfortunately is just the lack of overall traffic which makes it feel rather lifeless. For example, on the first service shown (Derby to Nottingham), Derby had no other AI traffic present, just two trains passed along the way to Nottingham. On second service shown (Leicester-Nottingham), Leicester had no other AI traffic present while just a couple of other trains passed towards Nottingham.
- While they wanted to focus on passenger traffic, it's still a real shame that freight services are not present currently as it would of given the route a whole lot more gameplay, busyness and freshness.
- Is this real for the area or do I note a lack of train stop signs at many of the stations i.e no S-car, 2-car, HST- etc stop signs which will make driving without the HUD harder.

Overall
The route does look very nice but, for me, the timetable is what makes any TSW route great to play for the long-term and unfortunately it seems to be a bit lackluster and lifeless overall if I'm totally honest and thus follows the trend like many of the most recent modern UK routes. While I'm still interested in the route, I do feel that the route might get a bit boring too soon after doing a few of the same services, although at least it's nice to have a route with three main start/end points (similar to ECW), so that hopefully might have some gameplay longevity. Let me just say though a big credit to what Skyhook have achieved considering it's their first UK and passenger route, I look forward to more content from them for TSW.

Just to conclude, when it comes to the concept stage for choosing new routes, DTG and third-parties need to think about those which:
- Firstly, have trains which already operate many services instead of waiting for more DLC to fill out a timetable.
- Secondly, choose routes which will form part of larger networks instead of random, standalone routes with emptier timetables.
- Finally, choose routes which can use more existing rolling stock for better timetables.

Stream feedback
- I don't recall hardly, if any?, questions from the forum thread were asked during the preview; also didn't get to see anything about scenario planner etc.

 

It isn't false advertising though... is it.

Saying the product will ship with 2 services, that have since been removed due to game crashing bugs isn't false advertising.
I don't gamble, put I would put money on you complaining if these had been left in and you faced a CTD because of it.

So.... don't suggest such nonsensical things.

 

Actually, you can very much have a super busy route with a realistic timetable and just two trains - London Commuter is the best example of such.

Before anyone moans, I'm not suggesting that there should just be more Southern region routes because of this. But, during the concept stage for choosing which route to have in TSW, surely DTG and third-parties can choose more routes across the country which have less rolling stock, but still busier timetables? Then, any extra rolling stock which can be used too for the route is a bonus for the timetable.

 

Well I must say this is the most impressed I've been after watching a preview stream for quite a while. The HST is stunning both looks wise and sounds wise (very glad about being able to have the door open!) especially with the TSW3 lighting. Again the 158 is stunning with it's looks and sounds which is excellent. The scenery is fabulous as well which is great because (lets get the script out) I can recognise a lot of the locations from my trip or two along the route a month including the imposing stance the cooling towers have. It isn't a packed timetable but at the same time in the HST run they did pass I think it was four other services so it's much better than SoS and WCL in that respect. Another good thing was what they said about leaving it open for expansion which gives a slight glimmer of hope for some freight and a Meridian.

Now although I was thoroughly impresed there were some things that stuck out to me which I haven't seen mentioned yet (sorry if you have and I've missed it) but luckily aren't too much of a deal breaker.
First of all it seems that there will be one less ROG service and NO freight services to start with however it sounds like this should be sorted before or soon after release.
The second thing that stuck out to me was that the Peak services were at 06:xx in the morning and 22:xx at night I believe which is rather disappointing as I do want to be able to see the route in all it's glory from the Peak's cab. Howvever what I will say is that in that 10 in 10 thing the shots of the Peak were daytime shots which is good and the even better thing is that it's a double header.
I also noticed that at Leicester the first two or three coaches doors shut but the others didn't seem to until the train moved and there just wasn't enough clag.
The last one is the biggest issue for me and it's that the TRFB is the wrong way round and to show what I mean I have spent the past hour of my life listening to NOW 80s and learning how to use snip tool and putting a 'diagram' together to try and show what I mean but the thing won't work so I will try and explain it now and see if with a rested body I can put it in this post or in my signature when I wake up:
[EDIT: the files are now attached below but I will leave this below here in case words make more sense to you and mostly because I am very fatigued but I would highly advise looking at the diagrams as i think they make the most sense!]
In TSW currently it goes TS, TRFB, TF which is correct however in TSW the passenger saloon end of the TRFB coach connects to the TS but the buffet end of the coach connects to the TF. In real life the passenger saloon part of the TRFB connects to the TF and the buffet end connects to the TS.

So essentially it just appears that in game it is like the TRFB has been turned around on a turntable and is the wrong way round so hopefully this will be able to be sorted.

Anyway I must just reiterate that I am overall impressed with the route and am very sorry to have gone on for so long and for any grammar mistakes as it's currently ten to two in the morning: I think I've got carried away!

 

Overall, I'm happy with this route. That's not to say there can't be improvements however. I'd really like to see them do a pass over the HST again. Has a lot of things that could be improved, which to their credit have been there since GWE, but this is stuff like the passenger doors staying open for carriages far away from the camera, and has been said above, coach letters and numbers being broken. I know this was talked about on stream, but I was really hoping we could see an accessible crew room in the back of the power car, given that it's already modelled and would just require an animation for the door, and for the guard room to be accessible, especially since they said they already modelled it iirc. One thing I will refuse to give slack on though is GSM-R - it's bad enough this feature is inconsistent in it's application between different add-ons, but now it's even worse with it being inconsistent between trains in the same add-on. Like while I hate to say something is "easy", cause it often isn't, this really doesn't seem like something hard to do at all, so I don't get why it keeps being skipped in trains. Like they literally did tons of work to adapt the HST to be accurate for EMT ect., so I would've hoped they could spare some time to make sure GSM-R could work. And while I enjoy the added realism GSM-R brings, if it's something they can't make the time for in each add-on, they really shouldn't have added it in the first place...

I will give credit where it is due though, the scenery looks great (even if there's little to no clutter around the lineside), the trains for the most part have been recreated beautifully, especially when it comes to the application of the AP sounds (let's hope Rivet can finally get it right on the 150 since it seems they're revisiting WCL again - at least get DTG's help if necessary, cause the 150 is pretty dire), and they even seem to have corrected the destination display font and size to something more prototypical to the 158, although I think there's still room for improvement, but it's better than the basic copy of the 323's one (although this could've just been a picture taken very early into development). And while deep snow isn't on the route atm, glad to see that they'll hopefully be looking into getting it in, and to hear the reasoning behind why it isn't included. And the SEHS layers are also going to help add some much needed life to St. Pancras outside of the SE platforms.

Overall, very excited for this route. Definitely better routes in the game, but there's also definitely worst routes in the game. Nothing too special, but good to see a new TOC in the game and definitely one I think I'll enjoy.

 

That’s because the two trains included in BML run far more frequently and run significantly more services on that stretch of the line. On this particular stretch with the trains included in this release there just isn’t any way to match up the desire for a realistic timetable with a busy route.

They could easily make up a timetable that sees 158’s all over the place but then people would complain that the timetable is unrealistic.

 

was it mentioned in the stream if 158 unplayable AI services are included for example Liverpool-Norwich services or Mansfield/Nottingham

 

A reminder that Joe worked almost 24/7 over several months. Of course it was a passion project. Can't really have a busy route like bml every time

 

It was mentioned that these services will NOT be present.