Midland Mainline - Leicester To Derby & Nottingham

My opinion only;

DTG seem to have taken a zero risk approach to anything to do with licensing. Meanwhile, elsewhere and particularly in simulation, the use of brands has become completely commonplace. There is no way on this planet permission has been sought or given for the use of trademarks in sims, but given it is a ‘parody’ of the real world I believe it is allowed for, although that is only my non-expert opinion from reading the relevant information. You only have to play MSFS for 5 seconds to see this has gone past the point of no return. Brands can’t let that (or anything and everything that is in TSC) slide but then come after DTG for TSW.

solicitr There are way more than Brush and Tesco on the more recently released sections of the MML. From station posters, to buildings to car garages and so on, it’s all there present and correct.

 

I do feel DTG prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to licensing, if they don't have a license for it then its omitted rather than stick it in and risk having to remove at a later date.

Whilst it is frustrating I do sort of see the argument that it makes makes negotiations smoother if they haven't already got the license holders backs up previously by using their IP without approval.

 

Ah I see, thank you.

 

What the ones that are moaning about the route YET not even bothered purchasing it?
Sorry Matzo not having a go at you?
Personally speaking play it & enjoy it.

I have it and I love the route. No I'm not saying it because I am an Ambassador either, Also DTG haven't slipped me any coinage (or oreos and gummi Bears). I did the showcase Livestream for DTG this morning on the route. 2 hours and 27 minutes in to the stream the game crashed and I lost the stream, now that's flipping embarrassing and annoying for me. Showcasing the new route on the PS5 and boom it crashes. I just re did the scenario in which it crashed in my livestream again and bang it worked fine. Random UE4 spat. Upto that point when the game crashed the only problems which were happening is me overshooting the station in a 158 in a downpour.... I couldnt stop the damn thing. 698 yard Knebworth.... Heed what londonmidland says. I also kept hitting the emergency brake in the HST then could start the damn thing again. SO I just restarted the scenario over. I didnt see any stutters on the route either from what I can recall.

Also as London Midland states some of the bugs that people are shouting the most about have already been logged and in for sorting.

My problems with the route. We Need Toton Depot, we need a Freight timetable.

Night lighting is awesome approaching Nottingham Doing the 2 part Leicester - Derby via Nottingham services.



Various Pics of Toton Depot (unfinished)







The big white building is Toton TMD Shed, Its like that as generally we wouldn't see it like that as you cannot drive to Toton Yard / Depot. Also Don't expect to see a long line of derelict Class 60's Although a Class 60 would be awesome mind.



Also a big HATS OFF to Skyhook for putting Start and finish points in to Scenario creator for Sidings and Yards.
Image above you can start / end services at Radcliffe Station also on the approach to Toton and other yards. We need more of this.
Yes I do know I am hauling empty TEA tanks out of a power station lol.

Hentis

 

DTG: Fire and Forget, Fire and Forget, Fire and Forget
Customer: Buy and Forget, Buy and Forget, Buy and Forget

I guess DTG created the master business plan!

 

Or get it right first time by spending a little more time on testing it rather than rushing it out. If you’re going to charge money for something. There has to be a level of QA

 

For goodness sake are you seriously telling me nobody noticed this

 

Couldn’t have said it any better!

They know what they are doing and it is morally wrong to knowingly release something with a multitude of bugs/errors and take someone’s money and run. It’s nothing new. I think the apologists are the ones who haven’t been there from the start and the ones who see through the rubbish and are used to DTGs poor albeit, non existent QA process.

 

I think DTG are very conservative in this; but then again, erring on the side of caution may be prudent as they are continually in negotiations with TOCs for brand licenses, and they sure don't want the railway to come back with "How can we do business with a company which steals other companies' IP?"

 

I think that is a classic excluded-middle or fallacy. There is room for both legitimate criticism, and pushback against illegitimate criticism.

 

On my refund request to Steam (strangely agreed with no quibble) I suggested it's about time they looked at the quality of stuff being churned out by DTG for TSW at least. It's not good for their (Steam) business to keep selling tat like this and ending up with customers having to ask for their money back.

Mentioned in the Peak Forest thread I can't see me buying that straight off either, in fact the only one of the big five "new" releases that came anywhere near delivering on quality (and still slightly questionable value for £30) was Niddertalbahn.

Something just seems to have gone badly down the pan at DTG in the last 12 months or so, it's almost as if the whole operation is being run at an amateur level rather than the professionalism you would expect from a fairly significant software house.

 

They need Sam and Nat back

 

Watched 3 videos of this:

1. Looks like a tech demo (the deserted kind).
2. Full of bugs.
3. The JT Midland Mainline in TSC is far more superior.

The whole TSC Midland Mainline with all extensions is much nicer (Hope Valley especially), more custom assests etc. Pricier with all the dependencies? Sure. But by not buying the latest half-cooked DLCs, I managed to afford it.

As things stand, this is a good-looking but very limited project with 2 trains. Cannot see myself enjoying it. The timetable is lackluster, but I admire those who can play all the included services without getting tired of this.

 

Steam aren't going to test every single game to make sure it works perfectly. There's too many being released each day. There are games with lower ratings that are still on steam. Why should they only look at tsw? How about all the other games?

 

As long as the download doesn't start, in the case of DLC, on PS you can get a refund. If the download started, you can't

 

Oh I know they won't and the message probably doesn't even get read by a real person, but the point has to be made.

 

In my view, it really is all a function of being revenue driven: the Top Men decree that each fiscal year to realize X pounds revenue target there will be six to eight route releases, in weeks A, B, C, D etc. The time available for development is only such time as fits the deadline, and that very compressed timeframe leads to routes which are sparse, buggy and in some cases just not finished at all. The problem has become worse recently because the routes themselves have a plethora of new features not found in TSW2020, putting further pressure on dev time.

I have also heard- although I can't aver that it is factual - that DTG's pay scale for developers is such that they tend to employ young kids who are just starting out in the business, and as soon as they have got good they move on to a better-paying gig with Rockstar or whomever.

 

I was just watching dad rails stream and as he walked down the 158 interiors the pis said " this is long Eaton", turns around and it said Newark castle or something

 

I have babbled for months that tsw problems is the accountants screwing up the devs and project quality to hit a cost model.

Never seen it acknowledgednin a a year or two (filed next to create new map and new diggers that move)

I was watching dad rail sense checking my decision to hold fire and I think I am still until things change


Interesting hearing dadrail call this a seed route (in his opinion only) that has potential to be expanded or branch lines being added

 

Keeping up the 100% refund and rebuy approach. I'd love to see your purchase history with tsw mate

 

This one won't be on the rebuy list and technically it was still cancelled at the pre-order stage as it hadn't gone live when I hit the button.
And I resent the sentiment - I never repurchased Birmingham Cross City or West Rhine, nor am I likely to.
And just by way of contrast within the ast week I bought the TSC new Japanese route and the Boston & Albany both of which are excellent and thoroughly enjoyable. Frankly if DTG dropped further development for TSW tomorrow, I doubt it would be over mourned if the latest releases are the best they can do.

 

Likely why your expected reprimand from Steam didn't occur; cancelling a pre-order before it is actually available is a consumer right enshrined in law, whereas refunding something you have actually used is ... stll enshrined in law, but obviously you sign your life away with Steam's T&Cs and are subject to their refund policy only

 

Same as GWE is a seed route to get to Cardiff and SEHS is a seed route to get to Paris,
ie I'll believe it when I see it

 

At least Steam offer a refund. It’s a beacon of shining light in the modern software world in my opinion. More power to them.

 

Looks like I dodged a bullet this time with this DLC.
I was expecting it to be a good one but with many bugs (ok, some are supposedly being fixed and a patch is on the way) it isn't a purchase from me.

 

Hmm, i know the route isnt really busy, so i rather wanted to make a scenario with towing the new hst. Did anybody managed to open the hatch?



(Here the gwe hst)

 

For some reason it’s impossible to open the batch…

 

londonmidland , any idea is this will get patched or do we have another short cut with the emergency bar hatch of the hst?

 

Can anybody sit in a passenger seat in either the HST or 158?
Walked down both trains, no sit in passenger seat Option appeared

 

So far the timetable seems very thin - they really should have filled in the Meridian services with HSTs.

Another bug is all the HST coaches are coach A

 

Yes they do

 

Having had a quick drive before a choir meeting I have the following first thoughts.

Pros:

I think from what I have seen of it the route looks very nice, it conveys the area well as far as I am concerned. It is well modelled and looks natural and real as do most TSW routes.
The HST and 158 are very nice, well modelled and sound good

Cons:

There are a few little bugs like the numbers of the HST power cars being carried on through the carriages but I believe there is already a patch in the offing. I am not as exorcised about these as some others as it happens and a fix is on the way and I think it is easy to criticise from the sidelines, I suspect a couple of forum members have now discovered that releasing a DLC doesn't go smoothly no matter how hard you try.

However, the timetable, is awful. There should be an hourly DMU service from Leicester towards Lincoln, there are six on the whole timetable! If this is due to pending DLC like a 156, then great, if this is it then that is a very poor show, after Trenton and SOS come on! The route does seem empty.

Also, the route is too short, it is 30 minutes in a HST including a station stop from Leicester to Nottingham, that is little more than the much criticised HST services in GWE.

I am on the fence regarding refunding the route, I do like it basically, but for me an immersive and realistic timetable is a must and this does not have it. A class 153 or 156 layering in the missing services would be fantastic. I haven't checked the HST services yet but I don't believe there are as many as they should be but I might be wrong.

If there are some plans to make the timetable realistic I suggest the developers try and convey that information as soon as possible.

 

I can answer some of the things regarding the Class 158.
1. Door interlock lamp should not be illuminated if the doors aren't released. This issue is known about.
2. The fault lamp test won't illuminate itself when pressed but it should illuminate the Engine Stop and two Transmission Fault lights. See here https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/class-158-simulation-bits-bobs.69403/
3. The sander button won't illuminate unless "Smart Sand" is active. How it works is described in the thread linked above.
4. I don't know what the state of the other things are other than to say that both the cloud reflection and rain issue are known about.

 

Here we go again..... The cars are driving on the wrong side of the road
also the logo isn't stuck to the train. there's a shadow under the lettering

 

We'll see what the patch fixes and updates, but meanwhile I'd like to offer my thanks to the beta testers and other volunteers who have put effort into trying to make this as good as possible. While it shouldn't be on the community to QA these releases, I hope that you're listened to and that your voice is more than just lip service.

I pre-ordered MML and am enjoying playing it now, most issues reported don't bother me - but the timetable is certainly a question, however.

 

Just noticed that on the scenario Easy Trip the time allowed from the beginning of the scenario to the first station stop is unachievable - even with doing all the set-up in the shortest time possible and triggering the unlock doors early, at 08:44:00 (the time you're supposed to arrive at Syston) if you've even vaguely observed speed limits you'll still be 2 miles away.

 

That just isn't possible.. you can make it right, impliment something completely irrelivant that should have no business touching that coding, but it does. I'm no expert, but coding isn't just make fix, it stays fixed. You do realise, if they spend as much time as there are bugs, there will never have even been a base game.

Given the sheer amount of stuff on steam that doesn't work or is blatant money grab software/ softcore adult content, Steam don't give a rats ass, they make their cut regardless by having DTG's game on their platform.
I've got so many indie games that were sold on steam that haven't worked at all. Heck, you can even buy games on steam that are so old, they don't run on windows 11, but steam will still sell it.

 

I love that Class 158.
Besides the reflection in the windshield (which is more ugly in certain sky conditions) it is a beautiful and interesting train to me inside and outside.
So far i also like the visual appearance of the route (what i‘ve seen so far). Stations are also beautiful so far.
You guys are the pros to find the bugs in the details and they‘ll hopefully fix those.
In the meantime i‘ll enjoy the product.

no. I‘m not working for dtg. I‘m a simple german guy who came to the conclusion that (except Niddertalbahn) german railways are not that exciting to me and i enjoy the british railroads a lot as it is like ‚being on vacation‘ to me. Midland Mainline fits my bill.

 

Working fine for me?

 

That’s insane.

I was going to buy this route on Thursday (my day off). Too many issues reported though. Put me right off.

 

Ok, I've gone back to check and it still doesn't work. However, this is based on me using a console (series S) and pressing the B button on my controller. I should have elaborated, my bad.

 

Ah because I'm on PC. fair enough.

 

Oh great, this bug has reached these units now has it? Glad I backed out of day one purchases way back. Still waiting for this bug to be fixed for the MK2's, guess it won't be until a new shiny DLC is released which use updated MK2's

 

Just tested this on pc, its working fine for me

 

When I watched one of the vids the guy was having the same issue, but when he hovered over it it seemed to say the A button but he didn’t spot it. I literally know nothing of the XBOX, but have they split the DSD and AWS for once?

 

The HST coaches and 158 you mean?

 

158 yes, not the HST yet

 

I’m sorry but I’m not buying that for a second. If Flight sim can get it right and the developers spend years on it to get it right with minimal bugs, which people are willing to do (me being a fellow flight simmer as well), there would be no complaining. DTG have had 3 years from TSWs inception to get the core features of a simulation right and they haven’t even managed to do that. Releasing stuff that is substandard and allowing a dlc realistically to act as a paid beta for ongoing development on a paid release is not acceptable and accountability has to be taken. You can’t just take peoples money and expect them to find the bugs for you because you’ve decided to rush a piece of dlc out in a matter of 4 months with limited time for testing and for the customer acting as the tester, what can you expect? Obvious backlash! I’m sorry you don’t agree with me on the matter, but you can’t apologise for the indefensible and as I’ve said before, it is morally wrong releasing digital content knowingly with bugs, the clear omission is in black and white if you look down the thread with one of the dev(or someone on the team) coining the, nail in the coffin term, term ‘post fix’. Like I’m not going to keep responding as this is the opinion shared by the majority of people who have posted on this forum including myself for genuine reason. Why do you think we would sit here and have an in-depth discussion and take time out of our day to make our feelings known? Like it’s not done out of pure boredom, frankly I have better things to right now, but I am consumer and have paid for something that is not value for money and we have the right as a consumer, whether being a fellow developer or not to make this known as we as consumers/enthusiasts want a simulation to enjoy and that is immersive (That’s why we are all here right?) . Empathy doesn’t quite cut it to be frank and therefore this will be my final response.

 

Small bugs all over the place... The biggest wrong point about this route is wrong place speed signs or missing ones.... I think with a few more work it could be a good addon but for now the refund is ask and i think this is a beta rush release....

 

Curiosity got the better of me, I'm on steam so i have my 2 hr get out clause.
First scenario, 2 mins in and just no!!!

Why does this awful shadow thing still keep coming in. I would rather see 4 dancing reindeers, a budweiser logo, gogo dancers, literally anything in life bar these 4 black lines tracking up the screen in front of me. I hate it, like genuinely hate this shadow, extend it out or fade it, anything....

Theres no end of tree pop in, ridiculous amounts, they literally transform where your eye focus sits and the route on a 2080ti is micro stuttering like bad. I'll be subjective, Valenta sounds nice and I'll look for the good too but unfortunately the same TS-Woes are there.

The drawing of the grass is odd to, large fields of grass drawing as you arrive at it. I cant work out if they've over optimised as we moan about stutters or if this is made to appease gen 8