I like the new MML route, it looks good and when the bugs have been fixed and some enhancements made it will be a very decent route. However the timetable is a poor representation from what I can see. Especially regarding the hourly Leicester to Lincoln service, there are only six departures for the class 158 from Leicester which is totally inadequate. One of the big selling points for TSW is the timetable mode, routes like CCL, BCC, Koln Aachen, BML, DCZ and many more have realistic and immersive timetables so why does this route have gaps in it? I hope I am jumping the gun and it is because there is stock to come to layer in, however if this is not the case this timetable is going to be up there with SOS and NYT quite frankly. I am close to refunding the route, I likely won't as I have seen enough good about it but if the timetable stays like this then it will leave a bitter taste in the mouth and I will be very hesitant about purchasing any future Skyhook routes and indeed will take a harder look at future routes in this regards. TSW has a lot going for it but sometimes seems to be regressing.
It's certainly very concerning to see this kind of trend with empty routes/timetables continue as is - one of the best things in the past I loved about TSW was the excitement and anticipation of new content, like for many of the routes you mentioned above. However, not to be pessimistic, but I just don't get very excited anymore when anything's announced until I can actually see a preview to make my decision of whether a new route is worth getting or not - the timetable being the ultimate factor. As such, I think one of DTG's (and third-parties) biggest priorities for any future route DLC going forward is to make sure the timetable is given the most time to be as best as it can be whether regarding busyness, accuracy and how can any existing TSW locos be included too. If a real route is busy, it should be represented as such in TSW, but if it still remains empty due to a lack of rolling stock, than have routes which feature trains that already have a large amount of services to begin with until any loco DLC.
If they released a quiet route bur could say "within 2 months these locos" will be on this route it would be more acceptable to releasee with a base timetable. Unfortunately "if its not on the road map it's not being looked at" yields posts like this and negative reviews rather than forward looking optimism and excitement for what's next on a route. Secret squirrel and mum's the word add to other feedback about new releases when it's potentially as simple as "Midland mainline is releasing with xxxxx, within 3 months 2 new locos will join the route, speculate away"
I just spawned at Syston at 10am, the next service in either direction was two hours away. Not realistic, not immersive, what is going on?
I dropped a train off at Notts? And I think the next one was 55 minutes later, I really do hope something is in the works, like a 222, 153/ 156 or a pacer? Not sure if they ran here, but yeah, something is need and it looks like space is more than available!
I'm not sure what is more upsetting here: the fact you are OK paying full price for a route with a dismal timetable, or that you would be happy to pay more for additional DLCs that would fill up that timetable. You forgot what they said when people complained about the NYT lack of services? Nothing more is in the works! But, sure, this route will be an exception... Hey, it's your money. Feel free to spend it as you want. But as long as they make their sales with this stuff, do not expect their attitude to change.
I get that the team are working on patches for this route but seeing yet another wall of silence from the team is frustrating.
Well if nothing has been said by the tiime I get home this evening I am minded to refund the route. I like the route but this timetable is very poor.
Who said we were okay with it? I didn't pay full price anyway. I didn't see the timetable myself till I downloaded, maybe you can remind us which DLC came with the timetable available before release? I am okay with paying for extra DLC, like I would be for most routes, it is something which has been in train simulators for 20 years. If you think a route is going to come with more than a couple of new trains in TSW you need a reality check, I am not okay with it hence I am likely to refund it and wait to see what happens. If they are waiting for new DLC they could have still made complete timetable using the trains available then released another timetable similar to ECW when new DLC came out.
Yeah I had to recheck the stream after someone posted a printout. It’s unacceptable really, I’m just not paying £30 for this. Six (6) services for the 158 from Leicester? Pull the other one. I thought that NY-NJ was a new low for timetables, but it appears that this DLC is making that hole deeper. Sometimes TSW 3 really feels like it’s going backwards, and I’m appalled that such iconic stock has been dragged down by the rest of this DLC.
This guy: It wouldn't occur to you to wait until someone reviews the DLC and only buy the route after, if the reviews are good? Like I said: it's your money, feel free to throw good money after bad, and help DTG continue with their behaviour of releasing half-baked content, followed by a patch or two (that don't even address all issues), and then move on to the next.
I get that we can’t expect BML with every timetable, and I really do not expect that. What I do expect is that we have timetables that fit the route. In reality, this route (with the rolling stock we have) is not exactly a bustling metropolis of rail, with around 200-300 services - why on earth is that not achievable?
I said I was happy with the route, I said I was unhappy with the timetable, I don't know how much simpler I could make it. You might also notice I started this thread! It was in response to this comment below, which references the timetable, not the route in general: I also said I was considering refunding the route on the basis of the timetable which you can do on Steam, not sure if you were aware of that? And yes I will spend my money how I see fit, and for the most part my experiences with TSW have been positive. I regularly hold off buying content until they are fixed or in a desireable state. I took up the pre-orer for this route as I liked the contents. Also this isn't a DTG release so for once the onus isn't on them.
Precisely so either there is something round the corner they can't tell us or are unwilling to tell us about or it is another route with a disappointing timetable, was it rushed or did they get bored? As it is quite a short route it needs something to make it feel livelier.
Completely agree. First drive, I passed a single train between Leicester and EMP, and, having had to abandon the service, I spawned at Derby at 10am. According to the PIS, the next Intercity train was about 7 hours later, the next Nottingham service in about 2h. This extremely disappointing.
Their silent approach to confirming content is doing damage at this point, like you say, with stuff like this DLC we really need to know what the actual plan is for content. I must say that I realistically think this route will go the usual Skyhook way, it’s released and we won’t hear much from them now until their next DLC announcement. I’m really starting to feel like TSW is becoming nothing more than a card collecting game, these DLCs are becoming less & less fulfilling, and all anyone seems to get excited about is the next route release.
The issue is that going off the reviews is a pain in the arse for all tsw stuff too. You have the people who enjoy the route and are fairly happy and then the people who are on the forums giving constructive criticism and the negative stuff. Its very hard to see through either side and get an accurate representation. I'm not saying that either side is wrong just that it makes it hard to judge on reviews. The ambassador streams don't help either being on pre-release builds. With one of the Ambassadors quoted as saying "I'm trying to be nice" and another going through the route saying "Its a pre release build I'm sure this will all be fixed" and it wasn't. I go off certain forum users these days tbh.
Well if it doesn't get any work done on the timetable or DLC for it then I will not be purchasing another Skyhook route, unless I am prepared to refund it which I don't really want to do. I have only every refunded once probably when I was being a bit hasty. A second time is likely imminent. I have varying experiences with TSW, some routes are really immersive like Cross City and Koln Aachen and the Dresden routes, Boston Sprinter has become a favourite. At other times it is near yet so far. I do tend to hold off now this was a rare pre-order purchase, I already know I won't be buying Peak Forest unless there is a last minute surprise, I haven't got Linke Rheinstrecke yet because of the bugs and the use of the class 110 on freight. I didn't even buy Niddertalbahn until last week although that was mainly for other reasons.
I know. But look at the history: as soon as the DLC is released, the forums are filled with feedback. Read everything, make an opinion of it all, and then decide if it's the right thing to buy or not. It's true: playing on XBox means the 10% discount is available after the release. If you're on Steam, you need to pre-order to get the discount, so it's a bit of a gamble. On the other hand, you can play it for 2 hours and refund if unhappy.
Exactly, we all have different views on things and reviews are often subjective to that person and streams and youtube videos don't always convey how the actual DLC will look on your system. Some Youtube reviews are biased, some ignore bugs when it is clearly in front of them and others appear to have spent money on DLC just so they can slate it so reviews have only so much value.
Generally, people are idiots, no offence. But my favourite routes in this game are the two worst rated. West Cornwall and Edinburgh to Glasgow. I RARELY read reveiws, because I don't really care what other people have to say. One train, short route? The 385 is one of the most interactive trains and it occupies me greatly. 150/2 bad, yes maybe, but I like the route and how it's relaxing to drive. On the contrary the routes so many people say are fantastic, like BML, I find dull and Niddertalbahn, i just didn't like. I find that this forum, bar some users, is generally negative on almost everything. I thought is was hilarious how identical issues on one route were being screamed as immersion breaking, but on a generally well recieved route were chalked up as minor inconveniences.
To my knowledge, the roadmap article 3 weeks ago said exactly how many services this route would come with, a week later there was a full article explaining it in more detail, a week after that a live preview demonstrating two timetable services was shown, with ample opportunity to gauge how busy the line was. Aside from that, recent experience with NYT makes it quite clear that if you think the initial number of services seems low, and you prefer busier timetables, you should wait and see what other people say before taking the plunge (and even then, half the people who were saying they wouldn't buy it when the service numbers were known about before launch, bought it anyway for no other reason than to complain about it). Even if it wasn't clear from the total number of services how exactly they would be represented in the route itself, the people who spend every day on this forum discussing the problems with this game and DTG, know by now to not buy it without waiting for reviews if there's something very important to your enjoyment. I had access to all the same info anyone else did, the route, barring some bugs, is moreorless what I expected it to be. At no point have I thought "well, I am sure there will be some as yet unannounced DLC to transform it", that is the quickest way to disappointment, similar to thinking that this time, for the first time ever, a new and improved timetable is going to drop anytime soon. Sure, new timetables do arrive from time to time, but usually a year or so later at best. I happily agree more services would be better, but as of this second it is a pipe dream, at no point has anything been offered, the only hint of a suggestion was that they had included freight areas and the power station just in case they wanted to make use of them later on, which does absolutely nothing to indicate a passenger loco or expanded timetable is imminent. I really do wonder how you can ask the question posed in the title, when you had 3 weeks of solid info telling you that yes, this is it. What is not to get about that? Why must DTG or Skyhook come out and confirm what they already confirmed numerous times over?
Did we get a breakdown of what the services were? If I had known there would only be six "local" train departures from Leicester then I wouldn't have bought it., they aren't even spread out evenly, there should be an hourly service, there are six! Mere numbers don't always help unless I want to spend time studying the timetable beforehand which I don't. I bought it early because it was a new UK diesel route by a developer I wanted to support and encourage to do more of the same.
Pretty shortsighted view really. Having something wrote on paper, and having that thing in actual physical practice - are two very different things. 120+ services on paper could mean anything in practice, and in this instance it means (quite literally) several hour gaps between trains. Streams aren’t exactly much to go by either, when the services are cherry picked.
Cross City gets a slating yet I would say it is possibly the best route in the game although SEHS possibly will take that crown. I don't take too much notice of reviews although I do watch streams and youtube videos to try and get a feel for a route. I can handle what are quite minor bugs but for me an immersive timetable is paramount. We are all different but there are some "negative reviews" on here which when I see them, I know I should buy that DLC!
Every stream I have seen has indicated this is a quiet route, in fact the timetable services I have picked at random all had more AI services than the ones DTG themselves 'cherry picked' for their preview. Sure, there was no specific mention of how many services the 158 did from Leicester, but that is information you can literally wait a few hours after release for, by asking on this forum. If that is very important info, if the timetable is very important, you can wait. As the OP has said, he bought this day 1 for the 158 and to support Skyhook, which clearly at the time outweighed the need to confirm how good the timetable was. Not a DTG or Skyhook problem, imo.
We are all different indeed, BCC is one of the few passengers routes I regret buying. I would refund it if I could. Scenery is fine, train is lovely, plenty of services but... No variation, it's the same thing over and over, and the end to end time for a cross city service is too long. I play NYT more, despite the overwhelming negativity on the forums, and assume I will play MML more too, because they just have variation in the types of services available which BCC simply doesn't, even if the total volume of services is low for the route mileage or reality. Different strokes for different folks.
The thing I get from Skyhook, is that this route has been designed specifically with dlc in mind. The addition of the yards and power station, on the "off chance" they might get used seems silly, as with the spartan timetable, but, without any further hints I do wonder if they'll actually do anything
It’s one thing to leave a layer open for potential DLC (and let’s be honest we hardly see that fulfilled), but to build a route with the mindset of it being ready for DLC, whilst sacrificing the release gameplay, is silly. If they’re going to do that, then the price needs to reflect it, not charge the same as every other release which has sufficient day 1 gameplay. This route has to be the single worst timetable we have in TSW.
From my point of view, I am happy to buy DLC to make the route more varied and give a new train to drive. But I would really expect it to layer in on a more complete timetable. I would hope that the timetable in the beginning was accurate for whose whom have no desire to purchase DLC. As it is, SHG have noted the complaints about the timetable and the other issues and seem to be proactively looking into it, so I now have hope we will get a better more immserive experience than I did this morning. It is definitely a route with potential so hopefully with DLC and who knows maybe even expansions it will become a more exciting and immersive route in time.
The thing about the lack of services, are there sufficient paths in the scenario editor for the creators club scenario creators to make some more intensive traffic in custom scenarios?
I agree far to many routes are devoid of services, punter's. Glasgow QSt, Waverley. lacking in AI services. Glasgow Central empty..New St empty..
LIRR is bemusedly looking at this post, thinking "B***h, please!" Actually, no, even LIRR is better than LGV, where we have 52 services, of which 8 are depot moves.
The gaps to me especially for the lack of any HST services between Leicester - Derby and vice-versa of which they are only a handful are realistic in that they would have been worked by Class 222 Meridians in reality, all well and good if this DLC is coming to fill the gaps but if not, what’s the point of leaving them out?
The excuse that there is not enough stock is silly. Firstly the HST’s can sub in for Meridians and the 158’s can cover 156 diagrams as they often did. For freight we have RHTT trains, Europhoenix and the ubiquitous class 66 which can be pulling tankers for oil trains, containers for the intermodal, aggregate wagons full of stone or mha wagons for engineering trains. So many possibilities. I would expect these wagons to be filling the sidings and yards too. Plenty of light engine movements to Toton with some locomotives being lashed up into one train. Then there’s the railtours. I don’t expect them to go overboard but one morning and one evening railtour would be perfect with all the usual BR diesels and Jubilee subbing in. There’s so much possibility. I don’t subscribe to the idea of ‘leaving gaps for future DLC’. If I’m paying £30 I want those gaps filled with trains and I will choose if I want to fork out an extra £11 for a locomotive dlc that will sub-in to these gaps later on. That’s if a DLC arrives at all.
I mean, they have given a reasonable statement for this, that being it was their first passenger route, and thus, it took longer than expected to get right. I can live with that. The HST covering the Meridian and 158 over 156, the one thing I HATE about earlier routes, is ones like ECW where you have different timetables based on the different available uses. Having to create an entirely new one just for the 313 put me right off playing as It'd mean twice as many journies and no hope of completing it. If its launching with a timetable, I'd rather it got built up and added to, rather than have 2 or 3 addition ones for new stock to replace sub'd ones.
I feel like Joe is the only 'timetable' guy for TSW. Just look how creatively he pumped a new life in Bakerloo line with the existing stock only.
I'll skip this Route simply because im not fine with the policy that thier release might bring. They releasing a portion of a route, full price of course, only one new train (the reworked HST just doesn't count for me personally) and then they telling us that they might extend it. Stuff that could been released right away gets hold back just to make extra cash some time later. This Route is priced at 36 Euros. Thats just to much for what you actually get. Bugs and problems with this route aside. Im not happy with this, nor will i support it. And its somewhat sad because i actually see lots of potential with mml.
That's because only one train ever runs on the B'loo itself; and the short section of WCML could be populated with just about any bits and bobs.
Well I do think the route is too short but it would always be a portion unless you seriously expect to see St. Pancras to Sheffield and Nottingham? And then to make all the services complete the line to Lincoln and Matlock. I mean I would love to see all that but for £30 with all the correct trains included.
