Midland Mainline - Leicester To Derby & Nottingham

Another bug, seems raindrops are happening in the air (you know, that new feature they have implemented).. oh dear.. left hand side on the fence..

 

Completely off topic but I would love to see a single track route, preferably Scotland, in TSW with the tech expanded to replicate physical token exchanges. If you arrive first at the passing loop you have to await the signalman to retrieve the token from the arriving train, walk back to the box put it through the system then physically hand it to you the driver, would be superb. Maybe in TSW10…

 

Couple of nice wintry screens for you...

 

As someone who developed software for the ZX81, Commodore 64 and Amiga, we certainly had our fair share of bugs, even in the ZX81, although obviously smaller and much simpler code led to rapid fixes before the software went out at prime time. I felt really confident in Alien Vs Predator (AtarI) that I had fixed all of my code bugs as we went to mastering the cartridge. Only to find a reviewer luring the Alien Queen straight out of her lair and down the nearest corridor!

Unfortunately the increase in complexity, leads in to an increase in bugs. We worked really hard on MML but given the huge complexity, some things slipped through the net. The important thing for me is fixing them and thank all of you and our beta group for identifying them.

Jane

 

Phil, these are stunning. Would you mind if I shared with the Skyhook team ? as I think the would love to see them!

 

Please do.

 

Bugs are one thing, but what’s the excuse for the poor quality of route building, extensive use of generic assets, stations that look like lifeless imitations of their real world counterparts, zero lineside clutter and just general sloppiness?

How do you feel it compares to the Just Trains version?

Finally, do you think it’s worth £30?

 

Yes, I was literally about to say there were definitely bugs in the "good old days". I often managed to find them as a player. And some were game breaking. But once they were on tape and out there in the world, we didn't have the convenience of internet connections and patching.

Anecdote: I did a bit of testing on a little game my brother was developing with Last Day of Work and found something the dev team had never noticed. They actually thought the bug was pretty funny, so they purposely left it in.

 

Now that I know who you are I am glad that you are taking on this tough rescue job and my wallett is now beginning to open in anticipation of the improvements I am sure you will be able to achieve as long as you are not thwarted by the bean counters. I really wanted this route to be good and was looking forward to it only to find disappointment . Now I have some hope and I wish you the very best of luck in your task.

 

Which part of the route is this because I'm yet to see it? All I see are randomly plonked trees and bushes that bear no resemblance to the real route and reused generic assets (apart from the stations).

 

Finally had the chance to play this route. I was actually in Nottingham visiting friends on the day it released which is a remarkable coincidence.

This probably matches BML for my favourite route in TSW3. I love finally having another route for the HST, and it looks and sounds better than ever. The 158 is also fantastic, the developers did a truly wonderful job. Probably a candidate for best sounding train in the game to my ears.

I've got no complaints on the length like others do. It suits my poor attention span wonderfully, and I actually think it's more interesting having it go to both Derby and Nottingham than having it just go straight to Sheffield.

I think there's certainly potential for an extension, obviously to Sheffield maybe including the route from Nottingham via Alfreton. If not, then I can think of fewer straightforward routes that could be developed for TSW3 than Nottingham to Lincoln. Pretty much a 60mph straight line through fields for an hour, the only points of interest being the flat crossing over the ECML at Newark and the approach into Lincoln with the Brayford pool. Wouldn't be terribly interesting but at least you'd then be able to drive Leicester to Lincoln services in their entirety.

Overall, really enjoying the route. Skyhook definitely need to fix some things but I think they should be proud of what they've created.

 

Much of it, the stations are nicely modelled, you get a nice sense of speeding through the countryside. The trackwork looks good. Yes there are some issues but I haven't seen anything glaring scenery wise which has jumped out on me.

Most train simulator routes will use generic assets for many buildings, I would like to see more buildings in the library but these things take time. Kuju assets from Rail Simulator still turn up on relatively recent TSC routes.

 

I agree in part, I certainly wouldn't want to sacrifice the line to Nottingham to go to Sheffield instead. Often I only have time for a 30 minute drive. However if it went to Sheffield too you would get that longer run in the HST plus the options of shorter run.

If there was a save game slot for each route that would be a major help with longer routes.

 

It's got potential but I've had 3 hard crashes in the last 24 hours which I've never had in this game before (all 3 sent to Sony with videos attached). The AWS issue is a pain as it's totally random seemingly. Route seems too short (should have run to Sheffield) and the timetable is woefully short of trains. Sheffield alone has 2 trains per hour to London and you don't see anything like that coming through Derby in the game. I just did Derby to Leicester and saw 1 train the whole way...

 

Not that much different to SEHS where there are glaring issues scenery wise including bridges made of the wrong metal, cliffs which are half their true height and a stair case which IRL is built into the cutting's sides, but in game is a "greened up staircase"

And generally TSW is quite a barren scene scape, so I'm not going to disagree with you, but the issue seems to be a wider one than this route and how it's presented

 

From what I’ve seen I’d say that the route being at least 4 tracked for the majority, combined with it being devoid of other traffic, is amplifying the issues with the scenery.

The biggest issue I’ve noticed is that the way the ballast phases to grass looks very unnatural, also, they’ve tried to make the ballast look untidy around the rails, which would work if it again didn’t look completely unnatural & also symmetrical across all tracks. The rather poor lighting (yet again this is plaguing another route), is making this really obvious too, since it makes the rough ballast texture look very shiny.

 

You’re definitely drinking from a half full glass

The stations are nicely modelled, but lack any sort of clutter or life and some of the iconic parts of the stations are missing.

Speeding through the countryside - well, I’d hope so because there’s no much else to put you where you are. Fields and trees…not much to write home about.

The track is the same generic track that is on all routes, except the ballast looks nothing like ballast in the UK. It looks like the track has been laid on coal. It’s also super reflective, which is a longstanding TSW / UE4 problem.

The point for me is there’s nothing wrong scenery wise, but there’s nothing right either. It’s totally meh, instantly forgettable and bar 2 or 3 giveaways (power station, bridge outside Loughborough and, er…) there is absolutely nothing else, bar the stations and signalling, to tell you you are in the UK, never mind the East Midlands.

Generic assets are a necessity, but traditionally iconic landmarks on a route are custom made. That was the case in TSC, yet as an example, on this route you have a great ugly gas storage tank where a grain silo should be.

It’s half-arsed, nothing will change that.

 

I noticed that too.

I also think that the ballast layer needs to be thicker, it seems generally thin and sometimes it "sinks" a little below the ground.

 

Honsestly, I'd say it all is.
To me it resembles the route.

Generic assets goes back to the infinate problem of "unique assets, more memory, bigger file sizes, consoles and weaker pcs lose out"
If each route has entirely new assests it would just be impractical.

 

I haven't studied the route mile for mile, I am sure I could do that with every route and find many trees of the wrong kind or bushes in the wrong place. I agree landmark buildings and infrastructure should be there, it is disappointing that the Derby roundhouse is poorly represented. That isn't something new to this route, or this simulator, or to DTG or to train simulators.

If you go looking for problems you will find them.

The route to me feels like a good representation of the area it is set and the stations look accurate.

As time goes on more assets will be made and routes will have more variety within them.

 

I wouldn’t say it’s looking for problems. It’s just having owned the JT version and knowing what they did at a lower price point for a smaller market then comparing the two, it’s undeniable that this is hugely disappointing.

re Your last point, that’s what I thought too. We’re now 6 years in and it isn’t working out like that. Other than stations that are only applicable to the route they’re made for, all you see on British routes particularly is the same old day 1 assets. They haven’t even bothered to vary the posters they insist on placing all over every station.

 

That is beautiful, finally something on this thread which is not so 'Negative'. When will the bright side of this route ever be spoken of.

 

Those screenshots have nothing to do with the route and everything to do with UE4. They could have been taken on any route in the game with TSW3 skies, albeit with different traction.

 

I suppose, I just feel (in my opinion) there's some good things of this route and it's not all bad.

 

I really feel that people are deluding themselves with this route. Just because previous TSW routes have been bland and had very few custom assets does not mean it's ok that every future route does. There must be some sort of progression. If you look at TSC, the routes released now in 2022/2023 are way better than those released say 5 years ago, with one or two exceptions.

But with TSW, the quality of route building seems to either stay the same or get worse. Almost every route, with one or two notable exceptions has the same bridges, the same bland lineside foliage that is too far away from the track, the lack of any lineside clutter. How is it that GWE, a route released 6 years ago almost, can feel more lively and lifelike than MML. There's been significant improvements in the lighting in TSW and the stock thats been released mostly looks and sounds lovely, but the routes are as bland as ever. I mean what is going on here? Did Skyhook really not have a retaining wall and bridge support asset they could have used, even if it was the wrong colour?



Why is the foliage here so sparse?


Is this really the closest bridge they could find in their library at Loughborough, and the platforms should be covered in greenery:

 

QA's job is making sure it does not crash and that it is workable (agree that has failed a bit in the past too). Its not their job to count the rivets unless the requirements for the thing they are testing says it must have exactly 36204 rivets. Quality is down to the product managers who set up what should be built and accept the product for release.

 

Given in the stream great play was made of the fact this route was local to the author(s) how on earth could Loughborough station get the wrong type of bridge?! This isn't rivet counting, it's a fundamentally different structure. It's not as if bridges are that hard to make, even I managed it back in the day with MSTS and Abacus Train Sim Modeller.* Are these developers so strapped for manpower they haven't got enough people to make what should be at most a couple of hours at most to knock together?

As I said earlier my finger was hovering over the rebuy button but now given myself a firm slap and, no - just no.

*They were a bit crude but, like the ones I did for the SMJ, still looked better than putting default or generic structures in their place.

 

Yup, consider that this thing was actually delayed too, imagine what the original release was like.

The 158 & VP185 HST will carry this route hard, for me it’s another sprinter dragged to the bottom.

 

Well for me, - I am not a rivet counter, but I can understand players’ frustration at the somewhat unfinished state of the product, the line and trains on it are worth £30 of my money. Perhaps I am easily satisfied, but I believe DTG & Skyhook will make adjustments (which I agree, of course, should have been made pre-release) and the release will be even more enjoyable - for me, at least. Your mileage as they say, may vary.

 

Have you posted these in the MML feedback that jane-skyhook has started, I'm sure they'll be able to feedback and get it updated?

 

Fair enough. I guess build basic route, add one train or two if an oldie can be rebuit then sell for £30.00 is the future right now. Disappointing for all of us being told an editor is coming or maybe some stuff will get fixed. Money saved mind and much of that has gone on modding my TSC install to look as good as TSW in my eyes with the huge line up of stock and the editing ability.

 

Watched the stream earlier, yep, another one I'll wait for a 40%+ discount - as I expected, usual bugs and mistakes - and nothing mentioned about them on stream, (Sam, come back!) just the usual avoiding the subject but answering questions about price and requests to keep blowing the bloody horn x1000 times!

Wasn't impressed with the HST sounds, sounded more like an MTU.

158 sounded good but I didn't hear any break rub sounds? Maybe that's just me as I didn't have the volume on too loud. Has that annoying window glare been resolved? everyone kept mentioning it on stream but of course was ignored. (Oh how I miss Sam!)

 

BCC is actually a really good route. Certainly by recent standards it’s very enjoyable. And the 323 is fantastic.

 

BCC is empty, Not enough trains in one of Britain's main stations. BCC is a nice route, The 323 is a nice addition with good sounds but overall I call it an empty forgotten route. Personally I don't own it so I don't have the full experience, but from what I've seen its dreadfully empty unfortunatly..

 

Man I had no idea this route was so hated. Yeah it has a lot of problems, but it's definitely my favourite route of TSW3 so far. I know I'm biased because it's in an area I hold a lot of fondness for, and it features two of my favourite trains in the country, but I'm enjoying it a lot.

Obviously all the problems people have mentioned need to be fixed, but I'm happy with what we’ve got. I'll ignore anyone who tries to insinuate I'm deluded for thinking so.

 

Not everyone hates it, there are a few loud voices as usual.

It has some flaws but it looks like they are actively looking at fixing the bugs and hopefully the timetable will get a makeover.

I won't be my favourite but I do very much enjoy the class 158 and the HST and the route feels realistic enough to me.

 

Where are you going to get those trains from?

It isn't empty, yes New Street is but the cross city timetable is busy with frequent services so you are regularly passing other trains on the route.!

It is an interesting route and well modelled as is the 323, I do own this route too btw!

I don't know how it can be forgotten as it has only been out a few months and I can't see what else they would do with it, unless they make some trains for other routes which could layer in on it.

 

What I don’t understand is that all these faults with the route that people are bringing up were visible from the stream along with the reviews on the first day.

So why do you still buy the DLC?

Nothing will change as long as you continue to do this.

The locomotives do look good and I may purchase it in a year for the 158 when it recieves a heavy discount.
I am yet to purchase any TSW3 DLC aside from TSW3 itself as it came with three top quality routes.
The only one I’m considering is Niddertahl Bahn as it looks well-made.

 

Actually playing the TSC version you get the same experience, apart from New Street which has most of the platforms filled up with (AI?) 350's. Certainly no Voyagers, Sprinters or XC HST's passing you between New Street and Redditch.

 

At least in TSC of course you can make your own scenario and add those, if you have purchased the add-ons. And then spend a few hours making your scenario, and you have your scenario, then you play and you are done, so you spend a few hours making another and you play it and then you are done.

I do love TSC, I was barking over Stainmore in a J21 yesterday and I loved it, but it is an easy route to make scenarios on as you may only encounter a handful of trains based on my WTT, freeroam works well of course for routes like that..

I find with the modern modern/busy routes, that is where TSW comes into its own.

 

Hi all.

Anyone having trouble with the map collectible? If so, would it be Leicester platform 3b?

 

Regarding the TPWS grids outside Nottingham I regulated my speed to under 25mph and didn’t get tripped by the grids.

Let’s see how slow I need to go to avoid tripping the ones at Mountsorrel!

 

Thanks for the heads up. Just posted a variety of them in there, yep.

 

I m wondering if this has been mentioned. I find this route is too bright or something wrong with the contrast. I don't think its my tele as I use a smart tv for playing my PS 5 on and my tele is new. I've had a look in TSW setting to see if there is a slider there for brightness or contrast but there isnt. So i hope DTG or skyhook can do something about this. Overall I'm 50/50 on this route but kind of enjoying it in places other than bugs and being so quiet/ lack of traffic and passengers. I've just done the railtour from Leicester to derby with the double headed 45s and guess what? no passengers onboard.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with the thread, but (and hopefully this is not too nosey a question) what were you involved in in the 8 bit days? I imagine a lot of us old fogeys on here have played a multitude of games youve been involved with if you've been in development that long! Personally I went the route of speccy > atari 800xl > c64 > amiga

 

That emptiness is only a thing at New Street, which you are in maybe five minutes in a run. The rest of the time the only trains on the RL line are the 323s, and you pass plenty of them.

 

Not strictly true. Between New Street and Bromsgrove you should have the WMR diesel operated trains to and from the Worcester area and a half hourly West Country Cross Country service either Class 220/221 Voyagers or HST's and also the hourly Cross Country Cardiff to Nottingham and vv service operated by Class 170's. North of Birmingham you should have the Walsall line services between New Street and Aston.

 

Jane, it’s good that you are taking on board the criticism and suggestions. I feel that we will eventually have a reasonable route.

 

Oh, is that the way it's supposed to work?

Eventually, the route will be " reasonable " ?

So that $40 is just the first installment.... I see.

Well, excuse my naivety. Slap me with a wet fish!

Ya see, I thought the dlc were supposed to be " reasonable " at initial purchase. Silly me!

 

Ok Crosstie, they got it wrong to start with we all know that, but Jane is making the right comments that they are taking on board what we say and will attempt to put it right. Give Skyhook a chance to deliver a reasonable route eventually, something Rivet haven’t done with their pig LOVE attempt of the WCL and have shown they are not bothered. At least Skyhook are listening.

What gets me is that the route was delayed and DTG stepped in to assist. It is obvious that this route wasn’t beta tested properly before release, as I am gobsmacked that no one in the community of testing, DTG, Skyhook and the Beta Testers didn’t notice what we all have.