Time To Reveal The Tsw "vision"

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by phil.elliott, Apr 19, 2023.

  1. NotDavid

    NotDavid Active Member

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    So fricking true.
     
  2. NotDavid

    NotDavid Active Member

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    Bro you still play that version? train sim world 3 is much better and if you didn't know already you can transfer all your DLC's and much more from train sim world 2 to 3
     
  3. NotDavid

    NotDavid Active Member

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    You can't get everything in the world bud. got to be greatful what is there.
     
  4. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    In what parts TSW3 is much better than TSW2?
     
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  5. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to know why DTG give up after a while. The base routes for TSW3 are fantastic. Little issues, a myriad of rolling stock, decent length. All the good stuff.
    After a few months, it changes to the opposite. Majority of issues, 1 "new" train (how often have we had a "new" 66 reskin) and lame length of route. 30 miles for MML? Edinburgh-Glasgow is poor, 1 new train than didn't work with the selling points of passenger announcements and the route is a ghost town. Same with MML. And before anyone says "3rd party developers are getting used to building in the game", I want to point out that 3rd party developers created "great Western expressways (reading to Exeter) and EXML North Edinburgh-Newcastle. TSW has just become a lame attempt and no one's even trying like they used too. I think its time I dumped TSW for TSC where the effort is fully put in.
     
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  6. bidibul#3139

    bidibul#3139 Active Member

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    I have always defended TSW, I bought almost all the dlcs on TSW1, and TSW2, only 2 on TSW3 (the quality deteriorated and so did my wallet).
    I haven't really played TSW 3 for about 7 or 8 months

    Bug, that's all I remember from this game for the year 2022 and 2023, it's heartbreaking.

    But ... it's been 7 months since I reinstalled Train simulator classic and I must say that I haven't had so much fun since the release of TSW1 (the very 1st version with the us route!!!).

    The icing, I can again create some small personal routes.
    And what about the huge catalog on TSC and another cherry is coming!!
    The complete update of the game engine!
    Full proc, engine overhaul, stabilization and dx12 on approach, caviar I tell you.
    Eu wait! it's a promise of DTG all that!
    Can we believe it?
    Hmmm we'll see if the 27th they screwed up the game or if it works better and then I'll advise for the rest.
    Update or not on TSC? ...
    In the meantime, I'm having fun and that's why I'll probably never come back to TSW3 or even 4 or 5, whatever, TSW is dead to me, long live TSC!
     
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  7. brickmaster#7638

    brickmaster#7638 Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure that they are making a new route for it? I mean, the Acela was first shown in December, and it released in February. It‘s less than two months until summer starts, so it really just could be a loco add on for SEHS
     
  8. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do 'still play that game' and I am not a moron. I'm well aware of retaining DLC's as I have done it previously with other versions. look at the forums constantly and see TSW3 is no better. The number of patches, fixes core patches and fixes for patches to both the core game and the bugs in new DLC, (of which there appears to be many), makes this in my opinion, no better than the broken game I already own. What do I get for owning TSW3? Shiny things and people with umbrellas? Ooooo.............look...........over there!
     
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  9. NotDavid

    NotDavid Active Member

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    Better lighting in the routes being released. More extensions, more trains, more cool routes. Get TSW3 better than the old rusty crusty train sim world 2
     
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  10. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say tsw2 is old rusty crusty. It might not have the shiny new lighting and features, but some are still good and offer more fun compared to tsw3 routes or just as scenic
     
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  11. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    This thing about ‘new lighting’ is a misnomer. The new skies are a great addition to the game, and they are what affect the look most. The ‘new lighting’ as a consequence of the wider implementation of eye-adaption is actually not all that great. The lighting in a lot of the TSW2 routes is as good, if not better, than what is in TSW3. Happy to be corrected, but I believe when eye adaption was enabled in it’s present form previous TSW2 lumin levels didn’t work, so what DTG described as ‘tearing up the lighting and starting again’ was actually the adjustment of lumin values to work with the eye adaption. Aside from that, there are many many obvious issues with the way lighting works in TSW3, and it remains one of the biggest off-putting aspects of the game.

    As always, TSW3 has more potential but it hasn’t been realised and often the ‘lighting’ looks pretty ropey indeed. SNAFFU.
     
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  12. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Well, i didnt bought a single dlc since TSW3. Quality and lenght arent there. I still have fun with older routes however (SKA with extension , Dresden, London Commuter to name a few...)
    I m relatively new to train sim, i started with TSW2 in 2021 and never bought a train sim before, but DTG, in maybe 1 year and few months managed to disgust me with this game.
    I had very good moments with TSW2 but now ?
    I switched to TSC and choose my DLC very carefully, mostly from third parties. Finally they managed to push me in their second franchise.
    If only there was a big concurrent company...

    About their vison ? Just the vision of a greedy company that found a way to make money with minimal investment.
     
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  13. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Ha, you need a break from DTG’s marketing.
     
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  14. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    I mean... cmon...
     
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  15. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Personally, although I still argue that TSW has improved in certain regards (features, signalling systems, timetable complexity and realism), I've also noticed a trend of recent releases failing to include those new features and standards (NY-Trenton with the timetable, Mainz-Koblenz has some signalling, signage and pathing weirdness and no dynamic sbow buildup, etc.). This has lead me to play newer releases less then older ones. For a long time I kinda put op with the good and bad, and bought most German and UK releases at release, usually with a pre-order discount. I did this even when I already knew a DLC had an issue I would be upset about (DRA not including the airport and later reinstated Meißen branch for example), because I felt like I could still enjoy them (and I did). However over the past half year, starting with Bremen-Oldenburg for me personally, disappointment started growing. I was getting the older loco's and stock I was hoping for, yet at the same time being let down by some quality issues, some of which are still not fixed. These issues than of course kept reappearing, with Mainz-Koblenz also having crossing gate issues, weird braking behaviour and just not enough rolling stock variety to actually represent the '90s for me.

    I've noticed this has lead to frustration, and eventually to me buying less releases. I haven't bought BCC or MML, even though I normally would have instantly, just because I'm getting sick of playing and then getting upset that I actually spent money on this.

    I also know DTG can do better. Kassel-Würzburg, although a route for a very specific gameplay type, was masterfull I think, with great LZB behaviour and a good timetable day round that makes the route feel true to life, even when we don't have all the ICEs you could see there in real life or the BR 152 which is a mainstay in the nightly frieght traffic. DRA, BML and SEHS extended are also great in their own right, and raised the bar in many regards, making me hope DTG would 're-invent' other routes that have potential for it like they did with SEHS, even though it would mean less variety added overall. (edit: notice how these are all summer release routes? Seems like there is a cycle. I remember being this upset the april before Rush Hour becuase of wrong Dostos on HBK, cut branches on DRA and communication, but those times I kept buying, now I no longer do as much and as blindly)

    But to me it is clear that a certain thing has snapped. I've stopped buying at release, as the content I get now is something I'm able to wait for. It's not so great and exciting that I can't wait to play it anymore. All that because I've gotten afraid of being overloaded with little bugs, signalling and pathing errors, lowered AI pantographs, features like snow build up missing, clipping errors, crossinf gate erros and sometimes even a lacking timetables that just keep getting me out of the immersion and enjoyment of this game that could have been prevented with a little more work and a little more testing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2023
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  16. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    I really don't understand why so many people still believe things will improve or say "DTG can do better" or "I know they really care about their product".

    DTG has 8 out of 10 times always delivered low quality. And post release bug fixes are either completely non existent or brake even more stuff/ fix only minor issues.

    It's also funny how much time many people here spent reporting bugs knowing full well that 90% of it will most likely be never fixed or even looked at anyway.

    By the way, buy the new DLC.
     
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  17. dxltagxmma

    dxltagxmma Well-Known Member

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    I'm suprised to see that the mood is changing from "WHY ARE YOU CRITICIZING DTG?? THEY LOVE THEIR COMMUNITY YOU JUST DON'T SEE HOW MUCH WORK AND LOVE THEY PUT IN CUZ YOU KNOW NOTHING!!!" when TSW 3 was first released to more criticism of their work which doesn't get bombarded by die-hard protectors of DTG.

    And again, I am not saying they put absolutely zero work in it, I do believe they work hard, I do believe they put a fair amount of love in their work, but at the same time, their work shows holes ranging from small issues (world/environment glitches like fauna too close to tracks, passengers walking on rail tracks, missing speed signs, incorrect scenario path UI, etc.) to issues that shouldn't have been in the release in the first place (missing/wrong PZB magnets, lockups, missing or bugged signals, etc.).

    Then there are the promised features and patches, still waiting for some.

    About the lightning, at the beginning it looked really good, but I noticed over time a lot of the UE render features are flat out missing or set on lower settings than the settings say they are. Examples are SSGI/GTAO, AO, Shadows (Distance Shadows, Cloud Shadows, Shadows from Indirect Lighting, etc.), Light Shafts, Volumetric Fog, etc.
     
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  18. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Graphics and Sound in TSW are just broken...
     
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  19. lupojohn

    lupojohn Active Member

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    Only speaking from my own way of playing, I won't buy TSW3 until I finish everything up to the Class 484 Island Line.

    Reason why is here:
    https://train-sim-world.fandom.com/wiki/Release_History_&_DLC
     
  20. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, the people on here most at fault are the ones who will moan and moan and moan (which they are entitled to) say they won’t give DTG, they will never buy another piece of DTG.

    Then after a while they buy the DLC anyway, which is pointless, and does little to prove their point. It doesn’t solve anything until the next time and we do it all again. We’ve seen recently with MML, people who criticised, resisted, then bought anyway. And now Peak Forest on the horizon, we’re seeing the exact same comments again.

    If people vote with their wallet in their masses, maybe, just maybe DTG will get the idea?! But we know it will never happen. The players are their own worst enemy.

    I don’t have any issues with DTG, I’ve been critical when I need to, but they give me hours of enjoyment like I’ve said before. I don’t see myself going back to TSC, I don’t have it installed even anymore! For me TSW3 has a bright future
     
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  21. hasco

    hasco Member

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    The umbrellas were bugged, mind you.
     
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  22. ukpetey

    ukpetey Well-Known Member

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  23. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    I have not bought any DLC since TSW3's release and have seen no reason to start doing so.
     
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  24. 21c164fightercommand

    21c164fightercommand Well-Known Member

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    we all have experienced 5 years of DTG's 'vision' regarding TSW and I have voted with my wallet more often than not.

    Perhaps Focus will give the franchise some much needed focus on quality over quantity?

    But how? Time is money in the gaming business, and the console market demands new releases every month?
    Unless Focus magically allows the DTG staff they've kept to do more and better work in the same 8 hours working day, I doubt anything is going to change soon.
    First of all it will be interesting to find out if Focus is more interested in diversion, reaching into new territories and eras than improving, consolidating and extending of what's already in the catalog?
    I doubt the console kids have much patience or interest in a few extra miles, stations or a new locomotive and a couple of carriages/wagons to an existing route every three months or so

    The 'suggestions' thread is most busy and full with wishes for ever more and wilder DLC, disregarding the practical, commercial and legal implications. Even then, somehow DTG comes up with something hardly anybody expected, a new track, a new train, and the same release-rinse-repeat cycle has come fully round again ...

    Only more third parties can bring much needed influx and variety, but it seems these are tied to a strict business model, and some third parties are better than others also.

    We'll see in a few months, and by Christmas season the new Focus/vision will have become clear.
     
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  25. ukpetey

    ukpetey Well-Known Member

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    I’m interested to know who you deem to be “console kids” and whether you are suggesting that only serious or non kids (adult) players are playing on PC ? Are consoles just for kids? Please elaborate
     
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  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. I happen to play TSW on PC, but that's only because you can't use mods on a console. I generally do all my gaming on XBox (with the big 4k TV and hi-fi surround sound), except for games which are primarily played on maps and usually don't have console versions (Total War, Crusader Kings)
     
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  27. dxltagxmma

    dxltagxmma Well-Known Member

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    The train simulation genre is a niche, it mostly consists of people with trains as either their hobby or one of their hobbies, they are not the regular gamer, both groups have different perspectives, wishes, interests, etc. - not all the time, but a fair amount of people, since the people who play such games have their interests in simulation games, which is way different from a Call of Duty or FIFA game and their target audience.

    Basically what I mean is, the people who play this game, they absolutely do care about a few more extra miles/kilometers, stations, locomotives, wagons, and especially more creativity and freedom. They can absolutely pull it off with no problems, and it does pay off - look at Train Simulator Classic. If they can do it there to this day, why not in their flagship product, TSW?

    Now imagine if they listened to the fans, players - not only would their revenue skyrocket because more people would happily buy the game or a DLC, but they would attract other people too - especially people that have their focus on other simulations like Euro Truck Simulator, OMSI 2 (which is still by far the most customizable simulator with the most freedom in a simulation I have seen yet) or Farming Simulator. And imagine if they even add modding support - it would benefit DTG so, so much, look at Cities: Skylines or in my previous sentence, Omsi 2.
     
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  28. FredElliott

    FredElliott Well-Known Member

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    I really don't understand why you keep posting here
     
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  29. FredElliott

    FredElliott Well-Known Member

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    All of your posts sound like a broken record
     
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  30. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    Well, of course they were!
     
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  31. Chas

    Chas Well-Known Member

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    Time To Reveal The Tsw "vision"
    [​IMG]
     
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  32. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Not saying I found this outside DTG offices, but not saying I didn't either s-l1600.jpg
     
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  33. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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    TSW's Vision: maxresdefault.jpg
     
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  34. lupojohn

    lupojohn Active Member

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    What's frustrating is when you try to contact them to ask them a simple question about an issue they addressed themselves on here to me and not get a response.
     
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  35. Chas

    Chas Well-Known Member

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    This is a quote from a post that received a very healthy 12 "likes".

    It was made by a contributor who has made 964 posts and been awarded 1,924 "likes" which averages out at 1.9958 "likes" per post and shows that this user is considered a good representative for the customer base of TSW.

    Sadly, the following is one of the replies they got:

    This post received a measly 1 "likes".

    It was made by a contributor who has made 356 posts and been awarded 429 "likes" which averages out at 1.205 "likes" per post.

    I think BOTH of you should keep posting here and am surprised that one of you (FredElliott) would even lower yourself to trying to dissuade the other from stating their views especially as it is clear that those views are far more popular than your own. Are you jealous that "tsw2" is more appreciated than you?

    One of the problems that DTG has and is why it is now so blinkered and/or blindfolded is that there are always people willing to brush any faults under the carpet and support whatever they do. It is becoming a joke in gaming circles where the Dovetail games "fanboys" are famous for feverishly trying to drown out and silence all comments about poor quality products whether it be the hideous unwanted failure that is TSW3 or the heavily disliked flawed DLC that has come with it.

    Lately, even the sycophantic 10k posting fanboys have had to admit that all is not right with TSW/DTG and their carpet bombing efforts to silence all dissent have noticeably reduced to the odd half-hearted attempt to defend the indefensible drop in quality of the product they have so heavily invested in both financially and emotionally.

    If TSW is going to have the vision to move forward under the new stewardship of Focus then it has to open it's eyes and SEE exactly what people think and say about the expensive product they are trying to sell to an increasingly judgemental customer base who are now turning away from the game in alarming numbers. That isn't helped by people trying to SILENCE views that differ from their own by identifying the numerous ongoing failures that are plaguing this game.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2023
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  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    "10k posting fanboys have had to admit that all is not right with TSW/DTG and their carpet bombing efforts to silence all dissent"

    Oh, do get over yourself. Nobody is trying to silence you or anybody else. Nor is a realistic assessment of DTG's foibles and challenges "fanboyism"- it is, rather, a mature assessment rather than a childish tantrum.

    Feel free to check my numbers, Snowflake... as well as my many criticisms of DTG, many of them rather blunt.
     
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  37. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who uses the term "fanboy" should just have their opinion thrown out the window.

    I was discussing politics (among other things) with some friends/family yesterday, and to quote myself:

    "If you have to insult someone to try and invalidate them, you're scared of being proven wrong by them."
     
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  38. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Ooh are there really 10,000. That many eh?

    I've only counted 18 so far. Guess I'm not reading the forum as thoroughly as I should.

    Oh, and only the Moderators can silence someone.

    I wish they'd do it more often, really. ;)
     
  39. FredElliott

    FredElliott Well-Known Member

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    Referring to members with 10k post count to the forums, rather than 10k individual fanboys, hence solicitr Bill's comment
     
  40. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Oh Riiight. I really should check the drawer for those sharper knives. :D
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
  41. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    And you're trying to silence them people in turn rather than being the bigger man/woman and going "okay, fair enough, that's your opinion and that's fine. However, I personally think that [×] needs improvement/is unacceptable.

    As it stands, you're just clearly frustrated with the game, and are just invading threads to try and argue with anyone who meets your description of a "fanboy", which I guess is someone who just wants to enjoy the game without giving a damn in the world.

    As I said further up the thread:
    And it's absolutely true. You see it in sports arguements, politics and gaming forums. You're dishing out "fanboy" in a (pathetic) attempt to belittle people and degrade them to a point that (you hope) other people just ignore their opinion.

    You need to either just get over your self-entitlement and start to respect other members' opinions, or get to-
     
  42. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Why is fanboy a degrading term? It's just an ultra fan of something. For example I could be labeled as a fanboy for Microsoft Flight Simulator. Why should that hurt my feelings? There are people on this forum who are legitimate fanboys of TSW3 and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just an ultra fan of the game.
     
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  43. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Some people are just too sensitive these days
     
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  44. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The use of the word fanboy is used to delegitimise someone's point of view By branding someone a fanboy you are saying that the poster's views aren't worth noting as they only ever have positive things to say. The use of fanboys on here is almost always used in a pejorative way. Something I am sure you are very much aware of.
     
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  45. phil.elliott

    phil.elliott Well-Known Member

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    This has been off-topic for a while now. Please let's try to keep comments on-topic.
     
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