Xbox Is Harlem Ok? ...

Practically often unplayable on safety systems after last NECNYT, HL etc patch... I couldnt reach Harlem from GCT, ases got crazy, brakes locked, penalty after penalty, no recovery from stops... the closer GCT the worse

 

I could've sworn something was wrong with the safety systems. One day I just randomly started to get random irrecoverable emergency stops, so I guess it was that dreaded patch. It seems that New York-Trenton is so bad that it's breaking entirely separate routes!

 

I tried a few short services late last night and no issues. Suppression on the M7a and M3a I believe is still 50% minimum brake application.

 

What appears to be the issues I have is, it requires more around 70% brake and requires 2mph under the new speed restriction before it releases from overspeed

XSX
M7A

 

Interesting, will try more later. I know the 2mph rule existed before, but the 70% is new.

 

First of all, the character of the safety systems in HAR has absolutely changed since the recent patch for NYT et al. All you need to do to verify this is drive any service, any service at all with the HUD on. Do you see ATC or ACSES next to your speedo? Yes you do which is inaccurate and was not present before. Before, the display would show the letter that matches the speed restriction in the cab.

So what has happened? First of all the cab signalling in HAR already worked and should never have been patched. Why in the world this particular patch, to fix NYT, was also applied to HAR is unknownable. They are not the same safety systems! The result is that the signals in HAR have been "stealth converted" to an ATC/ACSES paradigm. The necessary braking to suppress alarms does also now feel "off" to me, so there is probably a problem with braking force as well, as is illustrated by the above complaints.

The claim that someone at DTG is playing this route but has not seen any problem is telling. It shows that whoever it is, does not have enough route knowledge to know what is different, post-patch. How can you expect someone who doesn't know the route to recognize any issues? You cannot.

The patch for NYT has also screwed up BPE, in even worse ways that I and others have already documented in different threads. DTG doesn't know what to do but I can help. Here is what you do:

You know that patch for NYT? Just, simply, remove it from HAR and BPE. It was probably mistakenly applied to these routes in the first place. All solved!

For reference, if interested:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/acela-safety-systems-issues-on-boston-providence.69629/
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/patch-notes.68977/

 

All good for me on PC Steam.

Ran a couple of services in the M7A and M3A with all safety systems enabled and everything seemed perfect. No unexpected alarms or penalties and the suppression threshold was about 35% (confirmed with the screen display in the M7A).

 

Try to ride without HUD with sudden speed restrictions (tunnel 60-45-60-45 for exampe), its game changer when you have to rely totally on cabin signals. I would like to see DTGMatt driving HUDlessly this route or other...

 

You know in the tunnel those are permanent speed restrictions and you shouldn't be over speeding when you hit them whether that's with the HUD or without it.

 

Yea it’s a bit strange I put it into about 60-62% when it starts, but the alarm keeps going until I get it more closer too 70%

apart from that and the 2mph I ran a service and nothing out of the ordinary or noteworthy with any system occurred.

XSX

 

What about the fact the M7A units can't be uncoupled.This has there since the beginning of time,No wait i ment the release of the route.

 

I can't desribe the exact cause, but 2 main locations genrate problems: Tunnel exit 60-45-60 speed restriction and both sides of bridge where the safatey system go crazy, dometimes im able recover from overspeeding and sometimes I got penalty stop despate ackonwledging and braking.

 

quite deifficult on xbxx, will see...

 

Not difficult at all if you have the xbox app on your phone, tablet, etc. save the video using the X button on the joystick, save it on your smart device thru the app, upload it to the form.

 

Now, that standard DTG procedure didn´t result much in the past, didn´t it, Mr. P? People have spent hours and hours to get you videos and structured reports, just as the fancy DTG manual requires. So, that the devs find their way into a bug fix. Yet, the outcome was ..... let me recall ...... ZILCH, NOTHING, NIENTE, NADA.
Why would it be different this time?

 

Situation in tunnel (departure from GCT) all services I did are affected. My procedure after alarm: acknwdg - supression to BA till limit reached - go
https://www.xbox.com/play/media/QNJE8SFYYX

 

I haven’t been able to find any issues yet myself.

Safety systems around the Harlem River bridge are very active but there’s some real quick speed changes in the area. Haven’t encountered any issues yet though. I’m always under speeding since I know the route like the back of my hand at this point.

I plan to run a lot of Harlem line today though, I’ve got the itch again. Will snap a video for Matt and the team if I find an actual bug.

Also keep in mind that the bridge is a tricky area. I think you approach it at around 35 from GCT. Then there’s a 30 after you pass it, which the HUD tells you. But before you get to the 30, the HUD will then tell you about the upcoming 40…

Make sure you clear that 30 zone before you start accelerating to 40, that’s a good way to get caught out, because you’ve then got to throttle all the way down from whatever % you’re at and then get the brakes to suppression AND acknowledge all in a short time frame.

it’s not a race, take it slow around the bridge. In real life I think you’re “on time” within like 5 minutes anyway (correct me if I’m wrong) so, safety first

 

Try it without HUD, such players exist, and we dont have godmode (HUD) as others... I have to admit I usually drive ckose to maximum speed, for fun thought, and yes, it is only reasonable way drive by heart, the more Im aware of the route the less penalty, nevertheless atc/ases has flows (increased now)

 

Harlem is one of the routes I play HUDless really well… but I probably spent a good 8 to 10 hours learning it with HUD before doing so.
HUD is definitely a useful tool to learn the route and its speed limits before going HUDless. There’s nothing wrong with running HUD to learn routes, or even using on routes you’re unfamiliar with.
I still can’t find anything wonky with ASCES while sticking to speed limits.
The only annoyance is getting a penalty brake at North White Plains (end of route, red signal), ASCES won’t let you roll up anywhere near the stop marker.

 

Amtrak Acela Express #2190 Red Light and Emergency Brake Issue at Cove Interlocking



10 seconds into this video we get a red light on the HUD and incab display and 3 seconds later an emergency brake application which can be cleared, at the same moment the HUD turns to yellow on the next signal but the incab display still states stop signal.

at 32 seconds into the video we can see the physical signal aspect which according to https://signals.jovet.net/rules/NORAC Signal Rules.pdf is a slow approach if I am reading that correctly

57 seconds into video I pass the signal (still showing the same aspect) and immediately get a penalty brake application which cant be cleared until Ive came to a complete stop.

4:07mins I can stop spot on the marker with no penalty brake application so this is working.

In other news 4:19minutes shows I cant open the cab doors as this was a saved game and when reloading it seems to disengage the door commands (I had saved with the doors open in Back Bay for the purpose of recording this, and had to manually close all the doors on resumption of the save game).

I thought Id misread the signal and it was actually a stop and proceed and I was getting the penalty brake application because I hadnt stopped, although Jovet signal diagram doesnt show anything like the displayed aspect as stop and proceed. However this next very short video



shows me coming to a complete stop at 50 seconds but at 1minute 16 I still get the same penalty brake application on passing the signal (same aspect as first video).

cActUsjUiCe Perhaps I am doing something wrong, but for the life of me cant think what it is, so happy to be corrected if this is working prototypically as intend.

 

I tried this a further time with different results.



This time at 14 seconds into the video I approached the preceding yellow at below 10mph even though the speed limit was 15 (previously Id passed it at below 15 but faster than 10), this time for the previous problematic signal, the incab display shows restrict rather than stop signal and while the HUD shows red signal at 17 seconds into the video the HUD aspect changes to yellow and at 1 minute 2 seconds I can pass the signal (same physical aspect as previous 2 videos).

So my question is how was I meant to know I had to pass the previous signal at 10mph in order to avoid the penalty brake? And is this working as intended?

Ive made a copy of the save game file just prior to the interlocking if this is any use to anyone?

 

Honestly I played the Harlem line a lot on both Xbox X and steam and haven’t had any issues. In fact after the last patch I was able to finish some of the services that had red lights issues. I my opinion I find the Harlem line to be the best US route in the game. It has a complete timetable. The downside of the route is that it should had been extended to southeast.

 

A note on the enforced-stop penalty brake:

On HAR, as noted by MAX1319, an interlocking that displays "stop" has always caused a penalty brake when you get close, regardless of speed. You can start again if you clear the alarm and roll right up to the double-red aspect if you want to (of course, if on a platform, the enforced stop clears your objective). I'm not sure if that's prototypical or not, but for HAR it's a not a huge deal because the only interlocking stop signals you usually see are sometimes at the end of the platform at North White Plains (usually only if the train needs to be cleared into the yard after unloading), and very occasionally inbound at Mott Haven.

However, as redrev1917 shows, the latest patch has somehow brought this behaviour into BPE. There is now an enforced penalty brake when approaching;

1) Tower 1 (Cove) whenever it displays stop, which is very often. Note that this signal tower does not show up on cab signalling. Before you could roll right up to the stop aspect here, or right through it to SPAD.
2) Just after Tower 1 there is now another penalty brake. This one is inexplicable, but may be related to leaving cab signal territory.
3) At the ends of the platforms at both Boston and Providence. This "brings in," if you will, the platform stop problem from HAR to BPE, except here it's a much bigger problem that affects many more services.

Dear DTG Matt, I always appreciate your replies. All I can say is that this most recent patch has had adverse and probably unintentional affects on BPE, and in my opinion HAR although that appears to be mostly cosmetic. As I said, these routes were working in regards to signalling, so I think you can understand the frustration when a patch, obstensibly to "fix" NYT, has resulted in these changes. Thank you.

 

In this first video, you can see that a penalty brake is enforced at Tower 1 due to the stop signal. I even managed to trigger the penalty brake twice. I don't know if this is prototypical, but it represents a change form before the patch was applied. Which way is correct?


Here we can see that there is also a penalty brake just after passing Tower 1. This is new and also seems to be completely wrong.


This is an example of a penalty brake application on the platform. This has never happened in BPE before now. Although I was able to get close to the buffer/bumper in this case, sometimes the brake is applied farther back. This also happens at Providence due to the stop aspect beyond the platform. This also happens in HAR, but also existed on HAR before the patch.

Of note: I tried to replicate this on an MBTA cab car but could not, so perhaps an Acela issue? Also, you will notice the flickering of the display screens in the Acela, a very old problem for Xbox that hasn't been fixed even in this recent release.

Edited to tag cActUsjUiCe who is perhaps willing to provide shed light on what would actually be prototypical in these situations. Thank you.

 

Between your videos and mine it shows a the inconsistency as I had no penalty brake application on the platform at Boston South.

 

Rather backwards compared to other cab signalling systems...

 

Harlem line is a route that I keep going back to play. It has flaws like the NY skyline and scenery. but the time table and AI is fantastic.
Is one of the routes that I wish gets extended or gets the new haven line M8's

 

The fundamental problem with that way of doing things is that now you still have specific ACSES system code for each route that uses ACSES. You just changed the place where it is written. In my humble opinion, your end goal should be to have 1 perfectly simulated ACSES component that really simulates the real life ACSES system, and then have each loco interact with that component.

The painful part here is that, initially, as you develop new routes, you will probably find that your early implementations of the ACSES component might not be as accurate to the real life system as you would want and you might need to make changes to it, and probably to each of the previous locos/routes that interact with it.

I know that is a pain, and a time consuming task. It feels easier to just make a version that works for the current route you are building and be done with it for the time being. What you also need to consider is how things are going to look in the long term. Right now you have 4 versions of ACSES. If you keep doing a new version of ACSES for each route that uses it you are gonna have a truckload of them really soon, and you will need to keep making a version for each route. Wouldn't it be better to just have 1 version that really mirrors the real life thing, that is really well tested, that you usually do not need to put more work on, and that you can rely on it being correct when you add each new loco (making debugging each new future loco/route easier)?

In my opinion it makes sense. I understand maybe the business or economic part of the development might not allow to do things as you really would want to, but at least keep the idea in the "aspirational" list (as you guys call it) and try to navigate towards it when possible.

 

Not to go off-topic, but since you're active here, I thought I would ask you to go have a look at the SPG Derail thread.

 

• As for the verge 668th train which ran with a timetable mode at the appointed time, a preceding train is clogged up and cannot complete a trip at an infinite red light on harem this side.
  An AI train disturbs by dangerous divergence.
  Play environment steam

 

Hey Matt . Were you able to gather some feedback on this?