Glossop Line: Manchester Piccadilly - Hadfield And Glossop

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by trainsimplayer, May 2, 2023.

  1. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    I must admit, after watching Don Coffey's cab ride video I'm rather warming up to this route. Looking forward to some interesting little runs. It should be nice going from city scenery to some spectacular looking rolling hills, and vice versa.
    I also can't help thinking that this will be the last UK release from DTG until to the big Summer installment - I wonder what that may be.
     
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  2. locobilly

    locobilly Well-Known Member

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    I'd say that DTG are doing the whole of the UK more than fairly if you go through the list. There's a lot of Midland, Northern and Scottish routes - if you add them up far more than in London/SE. Must be hard to please all of the people all of the time!
    The closest they've got to perfection though is London Commuter and SE for me, the reason being the variety of stock and layering of ai services over those routes. Short lines with just one train on it don't get me excited, especially as the train is not even new to drive. Step backwards imo.
    I know I'd rather look at the city skyline and a myriad of busy junctions going on, with crossing traffic, than just another bunch of trees on a line that isn't much more than somewhat dull West Somerset Railway, but with a couple of viaducts to cross. But each to their own.
     
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  3. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is they’re just repeating trains all the time, I’m no more excited about a Northern 323 then I am about another GTR electrostar.

    The whole idea of moving DTG away from SE/London was to get more diversity, but already we’re getting repeated rolling stock.
     
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  4. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Might as well throw German and US routes in there as well, the point would still be invalid.

    London & SE is one region.
    Scotland, Midlands, the North (of England), Wales, the West of England and the former Eastern Region (ie Anglia) are all regions of their own.

    So, naturally, 6 Regions will have more routes combined than one region does. Not making much a point there.
     
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  5. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The route looks interesting, the train is familiar and very good and the price is right.

    That leaves just 3 things to look for:

    1. Don't make everything squeaky clean. I'm sure it's not up there in suburban Manchester. Give it some northern grime.

    2. Lighting. Make it realistic and give it big- city night lighting ( not like Birmingham )

    3. Give it plenty of AI. I don't want to drive the whole route without some passing traffic.
     
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  6. jazztrains#5046

    jazztrains#5046 New Member

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    Well, hopefully so there is lot's of 323 services from there such as; Hazel Grove, Manchester Airport, Blackpool North (Sometimes), Liverpool, Crewe, Alderley Edge and more. So hopefully, some 331 + 195 services could run as 323s to make it just a bit busy. Along with 66's heading through 13/14, EMT 158.
     
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  7. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Just jumping on the back of this point - I think people are really underselling the 323's versatility around Manchester.
    Okay, granted to them, it's a fraction of what is there in reality, but it does run a lot of routes and, realistically, there's no massive harm in sticking it on other lines where the 331 runs instead of this.

    Manchester won't feel as alive and varied as it does in reality, but a lot of 323 AI, as well as the 158 and 66 (good shout, btw) could at least prevent the station being empty.
     
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  8. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Got to admit, having watched Don Coffey’s cab ride again, I am slowly coming round and slightly warming to the idea of this route, particularly if it does get the 10% off pre order offer.
     
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  9. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Northern are due to receive more Class 323s soon once WMR replace them with the new Class 730s. That would give this route some extra trainsets to populate AI services otherwise operated by the Class 319/331.
     
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  10. TheRagingPOTATO

    TheRagingPOTATO Member

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    It's wishful thinking as I know the DTG bods have already stated that modular routes will likely never happen but I would love to see a Hope Valley Line route combined into this including the Hyde to Romiley via Woodley connecting branch and the Rose Hill Marple terminus branch. Both lines share the same route out of Piccadilly (the HVL route branches off between Ashburys and Gorton) and would give added depth with diesel traction being used for that route which would give more life to MCP.
    Like I said wishful thinking based on childhood nostalgia as I grew up in Marple which is on the HVL, but you can't stop a fella from dreaming
     
  11. Mark Moreton

    Mark Moreton Active Member

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    Just watched this myself and really psyched for this route now. Noticed it definitely passed a 66 in a siding so outside chance for a layer there with any luck.
     
  12. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Just watched Don Coffey's video and found some interesting details.

    At 16:52 he leaves Broadbottom, and just after the big stone warehouse on the left there are some more houses that for some reason caught my eye (click to enlarge).

    Broadbottom_houses.jpg

    They look even better on the way back, around 38:20 (to the right now)
    Broadbottom_houses2.jpg

    At 19:14 he arrives at Dinting Junction, where he has to wait for another train to leave the single track before he can continue. I think the Dinting, Glossop, Hadfield triangle will be quite fun to drive, giving us the feeling of a real working railroad (sometimes you will have to wait, sometimes others will wait for you).

    Dinting Junction.jpg


    At 42:20 he explains an interesting mechanic at Newton for Hyde. The conductor must press a plunger on the platform to inform the signaler that the train will leave. The next signal remains at danger until the plunger has been pressed. Maybe this mechanic is too much to ask for a low cost target route, but would be nice to have. This kind of thing increases the feeling of driving a real train in the real world. ;)

    He even took a picture (click to enlarge). It is located at the start of the platform.
    NfH-plunger.jpg

    At 47:22 there is a Freightliner loco waiting at the sidings (looks to me like a class 66, but I am not an expert). Maybe the timetable team can do something interesting with it for variety.

    Freightliner.jpg

    At 58:15 he has to wait at a signal before entering Piccadilly and it is possible to see quite some traffic on the line while he waits. Unfortunately I don't think we got any of what I saw in the game right now (class 150 and 156, and some others that I could not identify).

    So, in short, after watching the video I went from a "lets wait and see" stance about this route to "this really looks interesting".
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2023
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  13. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Some more interesting bits:

    The skew bridge at Dinting:
    skew bridge.jpg

    At 30:45, he explains the service patterns. Most services do Picadilly -> Glossop -> Hadfield -> Glossop -> Picadilly, but during rush hours and leaf fall periods they do Picadilly -> Glossop -> Hadfield -> Picadilly to speed things up. Again, another opportunity for the timetable team to make some different services (specially since it is now possible to make different services for different months of the year in TSW).
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2023
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  14. ukpetey

    ukpetey Well-Known Member

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    I could tell it was a recording of the new route from TSW rather than a real video from the live train journey simply due to the complete lack of passengers on the stations. Who do they think they are fooling, it’s obviously in-game footage! ;);):D
     
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  15. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    If anything i could see this line as a great place to do some scenario planner operations with ones steam loco collection jubilee,8F/4F(which will be here before this routes release).That for ones who have any steam trains of course.Provided theres enough room to place steam trains and coaches or goods wagons.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2023
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  16. andyscotland

    andyscotland Well-Known Member

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    it's the difference between a day one purchase and a sale item for me, sorry. a very short route, yes it's nice to jump on and do a quick something and I get why some people asking for unrealistically long routes is not feasible but THIRTEEN MILES? I like the 323, im originally from Birmingham and BCC was a day one purchase for me and its one hell of a route, I use the 158 and 166 on a lot of scenario planners but on BCC I ALWAYS use the 323 so I'm very happy that this train is being used elsewhere but.....one train? A pacer would've been nice but anything else would've added to this DLC
     
  17. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    The signal you mention protecting Dinting Junction is a known ‘SPAD trap’. It’s an approach release signal, so it only clears from red as your train approaches, even if the line is clear. However, the way the timetable works means there is normally a train just coming off the single line shortly before you arrive at the signal. So as a Driver it’s very easy to sub-consciously assume the signal is only red because of the approach release and is therefore about to clear, and as a result to approach it too fast. If, in fact, the train travelling in the opposite direction is slightly late, the signal may remain at red because that train hasn’t cleared the single line, and if you’re going too fast you’ll pass it.

    Drivers are warned of this risk in their training - never assume the signal will clear, just because it usually does.

    Hopefully the approach release is simulated on this route.
     
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  18. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Don Coffey also mentions at 46:16 another signal in the route that seems to be pretty popular for SPADs. It seems we will need to stay alert while we drive ;)
     
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  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    This route is going to be another example where DTG need to fix the service chaining save game bug, where once you start the next run if you save and come back the objective data and clock plus the lollipop more often than not fail to reload.
     
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  20. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I wish DTG would consider trying to implement an on-board announcement system with this route, similar to Rivet's implementation on Edinburgh to Glasgow although this time preferably triggered automatically (with something like track markers initiating the announcements). Given it's a short route there wouldn't need to be too many different announcement sequences either.
     
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  21. cescb#1068

    cescb#1068 Member

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    A very short route should not command the same fee as longer routes. Additionally a missed opportunity to not include the Rose Hill services with a Class 150.
     
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  22. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    This routes price is said to be £19.99/$24.90 which is less then the new normal price of £32.10/$39.99.I checked with currency converter but it not quite what been stated so far.

    £29.99/$37.36 this is what i get with that number.

    I know the price was mentioned some where in one of the threads.I just haven't found it yet.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2023
  23. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    isn’t it £29.99 not £32.10, or is their a price rise I’ve missed.

    Edit: I see, DTG don’t use the converter, as it’s in constant flux, they go with a set price (likely taken into account if their are international selling fees) route price U.K. wide is £29.99 (£26.99 with game pass)

    those are standard pricing

    £29.99/$39.99/€35.99. (not including Glossop Line)

    then their is the VAT which is 20% I think so, technically they sell it at around £24-25, I would say they most likely work out where the VAT will take it up to aswell when judging on a price tag.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2023
  24. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't!
     
  25. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    £ UK or € Euros which one do they tend to use in the UK because theres a slight difference between the conversion numbers?
     
  26. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    £ is UK

    € is certain EU countries only, or all EU countries nowadays but I don’t think it’s required so they are free to change.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2023
  27. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    Interesting point about the Rose Hill services. They could be included between Man Picc and Guide Bridge, or even Hyde North, which will have to be included in the route anyway as it’s clearly visible from the Hadfield line (even though the Hadfield line trains don’t actually go through the station).

    The Rose Hill services call at Fairfield, which the Hadfield line services do not (with the odd exception in some timetables) and of course the performance of a 150 unit is very different to a 323 so driving this section of the route in a 150 would be a significantly different experience. Having these trains included would also add visual interest and create the opportunity for the odd signal check for the Hadfield line services (which will otherwise be rare I suspect).

    Has anyone actually said the Rose Hill services won’t be included? It seems a quick and easy thing to do, which would have significant benefit.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2023
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  28. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    I have seen a video of this route and a freightliner br66 hauling the aggregate wagons (type seen on GWR route) also br 395 so clearly this route has other traffic passing thru.But i'm guessing where as you might be able to scenario planner in a br 395,there likely no section of placement track for a br66 with aggregate wagons

    Plus br 153
    EWS br 66 with aggregate wagons from east coast way line
    Br 158
    It's clear this line not totally isolated.
    Also there where some North Transpennie servies as well.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2023
  29. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    It’s far from isolated - multiple other routes cross it and run alongside it, so there’s lots of other traffic around. However, the only traffic I can think of which stops twice on the route (making it drivable) is the Rose Hill services.
     
  30. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    With DTG already having many of the trains seen in the video i saw in TSW there could be many AI services added to add some life to this route.
     
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  31. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    The route will be £20, so it doesn't demand such a fee.

    Fair point abt the Rose Hill services, though.
     
  32. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    I'll be amazed if a 150 or even the 158 are layered into the route, my expectation of seeing this is less than 1/10.

    Set your expectations low and you won't be disappointed.
     
  33. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    The 158 will most likely layer around Manchester, as is appropriate.
    The 150 is in the wrong livery so don't expect anything on that front.

    On the plus side, the 323 can take the role of many of Northern's electric services, so whilst Manchester will lack diversity in rolling stock, it won't be totally empty. Which is good, I guess.
     
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  34. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    I can appreciate that when using a train in different era involves changes to on board equipment, removal of vacuum pipes, change of engine etc it can be a bigger job than we imagine. But bringing the 150 up to date would just be a re-paint as far as I can think. If so, surely that’s not a big job. Given that it would provide a significant increase in variety of drivable trains on the route, it would seem easily worthwhile.

    Past experience suggest you’ll probably be proved right, but it will be really disappointing if the opportunity is missed. It feels like an open goal.
     
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  35. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't be a layer if the livery changes, and the route code doesn't indicate any 150 being included, so unless plans change, then I'll be correct.
     
  36. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    Ah well, given what Matt’s said on the Chinley-Ambergate thread about critically assessing new routes to ensure they’re maximising the timetable, maybe plans will change! Until proved wrong, I’ll continue to live in hope…
     
  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    They could have set the route in the mid to late 1990's with the 323 in Regional Railways North West Livery and the class 101 in Regional Railways livery for the Rose Hill services.
     
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  38. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The only way the 150/2 could be layered is if it’s in TFW colours, and even then it would be AI only.
     
  39. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Allow me to introduce: Northern_150275_at_Buxton,_April_2017.jpg
     
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  40. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Do they use those in Manchester? It’d be about as rare as a Northern 158 in Piccadilly.
     
  41. Javelin

    Javelin Well-Known Member

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    Northern 150's are quite common in Manchester still.
     
  42. Trainzrule

    Trainzrule Member

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    It would have been really nice if Stalybridge could have included, it really isn't far and would have opened up possibilities for a heavily revamped Northern 150 to be included. Especially seeing as from what I could tell from the cab ride, diesels going that direction seem to make up a considerable portion of the services up to Guide Bridge.

    But hey, we don't know what's coming, and who knows, with TPE being returned to the DFT, we may very well one day even see TPE 185s on this route.
     
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  43. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    They're used on the mid-Cheshire line services to Chester and if you're really unlucky, you'd of got a Pacer
     
  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Denmark, Sweden, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Romania and Croatia don't use the Euro.
     
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  45. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    a lot more than I thought their was :o I should have known about Sweden and from that Denmark, but i definitely mistaken the U.K. as the previous outlier, I was thinking on Switzerland aswell but that of course isn’t EU just Schengen
     
  46. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Croatia uses Euro since January 1st of this year
     
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  47. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    It was stated this routes double tracked yet there are clearly single track sections as well.So whats the routes more consistent track makeup?
     
  48. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    It is mostly double tracked. The triangle formed by Dinting, Hadfield and Glossop is single tracked.
    Obviously, the area around Manchester Piccadilly has way more than 2 tracks (I think there are 6, but don't quote me on that).
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2023
  49. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    150/1’s yes, /2’s are extremely rare.

    I’ve unfortunately suffered that run a few times, but it’s always been a /1, or a pacer when they were still ran.

    It’s not impossible of course, and I wouldn’t object to it standing in, but it certainly isn’t the norm to see Northern /2’s knocking about Piccadilly.

    I think we all know anyway, we aren’t going to get a reworked 150 in a new livery as a layer.
     
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  50. cescb#1068

    cescb#1068 Member

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    150\2 has been on Rose Hill Services within the last week. Think it was on Wed the 10th. Normally a 150\1 for sure but they do turn up. 195 units also now common. Adding the spur from Ashburys to Newton Heath for empty stock movements to Piccadilly would also not be insurmountable including the change ends that is part of such a manuver. So many possibilities...
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2023
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