Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by jane-skyhook, Apr 19, 2023.

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  1. Sorry I haven't followed this thread.

    But are freight paths going to be added such as Barrow and Ratcliffe?
     
  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have never touched journey mode and have never got bored either!
     
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  3. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Have to agree, the last time I used journey mode was with CRR and on the dlc, this was the interesting runs.
     
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  4. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Right, fair enough, but many of us like it and use it. To be honest, it's pretty much the only mode I use, so a good one is really nice to see. A short ill-thought one is really noticeable.
     
  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As I said above, Journey Mode is going to work best on a route with diverse service patterns or where there are interesting scenarios that can be incorporated. It's also got application as a potential career ladder, i.e. start off on the low rent tasks and work up to the "Top Link" so to speak. In some respects MML has captured this by putting you on the 158 jobs before letting you loose on the HST.
     
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  6. 85Leaf

    85Leaf Active Member

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    I enjoy journey mode and basically use it as a good introduction to a route prior to jumping into the timetables. Luckily there are different ways to enjoy the game so to each their own. YMMV.

    Kind regards
    Dave
     
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  7. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Well-Known Member

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    jane-skyhook My point is that I will not be able to enjoy the great work you and your team did with this beautiful trainset, as the Journey is so short

    PS after chapter 1 of the Journey, I still have nothing toward the Mastery, so another thing that I will not tbe able to enjoy what the team did
     
  8. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    You've lost all credibility mate. You're the one who called the journey mode despicable in the first place and 'attacked' skyhook just because your needs weren't met.
     
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  9. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    But that is the route!

    The route is Derby / Nottingham - Leicester, it’s not as if Skyhook/DTG have overpromised and underdelivered, the route length is the route length.

    I know we can argue about it should have started at Sheffield, at the end of the day that’s irrelevant.

    Personally, I’d have enjoyed a Derby-Matlock section!

    Or even Leicester - Kettering simply because it’s a not ever been represented in a Train Simulator before!

    Anyway, I can’t wait for the update, I’m still playing MML on a daily basis and it doesn’t fail to disappoint!
     
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  10. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    On ps4 the accelerating and braking input fails to register. I mean when you press l2 / r2 it won't recognise this. Happens far to often. And before anyone says just buy a new controller, mine is new and works perfectly with other games such as dirt rally
     
  11. jane-skyhook

    jane-skyhook Well-Known Member

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    Morning Everyone, I hope you all had a great weekend.

    A timetable update,

    114 new playable services currently in test, split across HST, 158, Class 37 ROG and freight services.

    (more to enter test soon)

    A couple of hundred AI services added also.
     
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  12. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    I ended up purchasing this route after I could see the effort being put into much improving it after initial release and am looking forward to getting my hands on the patch (and future ones).

    DTG could and should definitely learn lessons from Skyhook here.
     
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  13. Southern Driver

    Southern Driver Active Member

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    Are we any the wiser on timescales?
     
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  14. jane-skyhook

    jane-skyhook Well-Known Member

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    the plan is still for this month. The team are working hard on various things, so no definitive date yet. I will update just as soon as I have the date myself. We want to get in as much as we can.
     
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  15. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to tag you jane-skyhook but did you get a chance to find out about the GCR bridge over the MML at Loughborough (definitely not Leicester;)).
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2023
  16. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I think you mean Loughborough? The one located just south of the station?
     
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  17. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Haha yes thanks I must have been having a moment! I'll edit that to avoid any confusion.
     
  18. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly with this. Journey mode is my preferred way of approaching a route; a curated experience that highlights the variety it has to offer. It can be a showcase or a "day in the life" or both. It also appeals to the compulsive collector in me; ticking off the boxes and completing chapters lol.
     
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  19. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I use both. I like using both. For those saying that the services repeat themselves in timetable mode.... well of course they do.... its a timetable. Last time. i looked most UK and European timetables repeat themselves through out the day / week / month. It doesn't stop you customising your experience to be honest. You don't have to use dynamic weather. In fact I have been going over using customisation settings.

    As the the guy moaning about the layers ....... really not sure what you are on about or trying g to achieve. As to the update that skyhook are doing...... really looking forward to nit and hopefully I will be able to.play the route again in my streams. Currently I have stopped playing it in the streams as it keeps crashing.

    Anyway looking forward to it all.

    Hentis
     
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  20. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Nobody thinks there's anything wrong with Criticsm.

    rennekton#1349 sums it up best here:
    Most of what rat7_mobile says is utter nonsense:
    Come on. "Very good" and "150 in Cornwall" shouldn't be in the same sentence on these forums. That's hardly criticism that is being suppressed, that's the "can do no wrong" mentality you complain about.

    "You have to have my opinion to talk about the issue"

    It's almost - this is a wild suggestion here, I know - that the timetable mode is based on real life, where there isn't much special going on. Also, if the user can't be bothered to change the weather going into a run, then that's just sheer laziness. (Also, they do realise that it has to default to something? Not sure what they want.)

    So, to return to this:
    1. rat7_mobile is not expressing a critical opinion, it's nonsensical
    2. Nobody ever says yiu can't have an opinion. They may disagree with you, but if you view that as unacceptable then that's on you.
    3. Some people choose to look on the brightside, or may not have the same understanding of trains as we do. That's fine.
    4. You've pretty much done the Diplomat's version of "anyone who likes DTG is a fanboy"

    Thank you.
     
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  21. dtg_jan

    dtg_jan Staff Member

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    Right folks, please remember to keep this thread on topic.
    Feel free to discuss anything else in the appropriate channels, but let's stay focused on the MML feedback and the fantastic work Jane has been doing here.
    Thank you.
     
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  22. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I enjoy the 150 on Cornwall. I'm not a train enthusiast by any stretch of the imagination, I just like simulators.

    Is it how it should be? Heck if I know, but it's not broken, so I don't mind.

    Back on topic, can't wait for the MML update
     
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  23. jane-skyhook

    jane-skyhook Well-Known Member

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    Hey All, Freight now lives on the MML! Here are a couple of night shots of freight in action (yes we have day too!). I was just feeling all atmospheric today :)
    freight 1.jpg
     
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  24. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy driving the 150, but I accept that it's not a well-made train. It certainly doesn't earn the title of 'very good'.
     
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  25. MarkCovz4761

    MarkCovz4761 Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant Jane I can't wait I enjoy doing freight
     
  26. jane-skyhook

    jane-skyhook Well-Known Member

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    freight 3.jpg
     
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  27. dudders

    dudders Well-Known Member

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    Second picture is pitch black but hey its looking good
     
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  28. dudders

    dudders Well-Known Member

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  29. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Hope the night lighting looks better than this in the release cut. Can't see a darned thing. Is it a train, is it a plane.......? I wouldn't be using this screenshot as a PR promo.

    I don't know what it is about TSW. Cathcart, BCC, CRR and others are undriveable at night. Yet some routes like BML, SPG, BPE are fine.

    Why can't they get it consistently right?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2023
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  30. jane-skyhook

    jane-skyhook Well-Known Member

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    just spotted and deleted, my screen capture skills need work :)
     
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  31. jane-skyhook

    jane-skyhook Well-Known Member

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    definitely not a PR promo. I am not a PR screenshot type person at all. I am a dev, so just sharing a couple of work in progress shots that I did personally. A long way from PR images :)
     
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  32. jane-skyhook

    jane-skyhook Well-Known Member

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    I am just looking at today's build (and have driven 7 services). There are currently 254 drivable services available, which is a huge step up. Work is still progressing on the timetable as I type, but this is where we stand today. (again, numbers can go up and down, but this gives the snapshot today)

    timetable.jpg
     
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  33. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Well-Known Member

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    I have confidence that I will definitely not be disappointed in the end result of the work. I look forward to the transformation of the route and the new schedule! It will be exciting gameplay. I postponed the route until the release of the patch, I want to go through services in a refined environment and train schedule. I will not hide it, I am very interested in the possible expansion of the route and I look forward to the continuation of the team's work on it.
     
  34. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Can't wait So I can finally Purchase this route. I love they way you have been communicating with the community and hopes this is used in the future by DTG and all it's BP. Thank You Jane
     
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  35. Taihennami

    Taihennami Well-Known Member

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    Happily, we can actually keep this on topic by directly comparing the 150 to Skyhook's 158. They're both members of the Sprinter family and are mechanically similar, in that they both pair one diesel engine and one Voith T211r hydraulic transmission per vehicle, use a 7-step throttle and 3-step EP brake, and indeed the real-life ones can be coupled together and operated in multiple (albeit restricted to the speed of the slower unit). The differences are in the installed engine power and the final-drive gear ratio, both being related to the 158's higher top speed, and that the 158 uses disc brakes while the 150 uses the older conventional type of tread brakes.

    Everyone who has ridden a Sprinter on a regular basis is familiar with their characteristics. The T211r has two "gears" which are actually both at unity gear ratio, but differ in that one uses a torque converter (to use at low speeds) and the other uses a fluid coupling (to use at high speeds). When first opening the throttle halfway, it takes a couple of seconds for hydraulic fluid to be pumped into the converter, after which the engine note changes as it is loaded and the train begins to move. Only then does the driver open the throttle fully, so that the engine is not raced while not yet loaded. While running on the torque converter, the engine note is related to the throttle position and not the speed of the train. When the threshold speed is passed, hydraulic fluid is transferred from the torque converter to the fluid coupling, and the engine note drops substantially, subsequently following the train speed and being only slightly influenced by the throttle position. The transition between these modes is smooth and exhibits very little change in acceleration at that point. When the throttle is closed while running on the fluid coupling, the engine note drops only slightly at first, as the coupling keeps it turning at nearly road speed until the fluid drains out of it - because there is no mechanical freewheel.

    RailWorks was notoriously bad at modelling hydraulic transmissions of any kind. Later on, it became possible to bypass this bad model and "fake" a better one using a diesel-electric model and Lua scripting, but few developers had the expertise to take this option. Unfortunately, TSW inherited at least some characteristics of the default RailWorks model for most hydraulic transmissions encountered so far, mostly in German locomotives.

    This is also true of Rivet's 150. Particularly noticeable is a large and sudden increase in acceleration when changing "up" from the torque converter to the fluid coupling (which the real T211r does not exhibit), and the use of speed control on the engine rather than torque control (which results in very different behaviour in the mid-to-high speed range). The lack of power in the upper end of the torque converter's speed range makes it impossible to maintain schedule on the steep hills of the Cornwall route it is supplied with.

    These characteristics also appear in several German diesel-hydraulic types as modelled in TSW, which also use various Voith transmissions, eg. the L216rs and L217rs are used on the V100 and V60 series locomotives, and share the combination of a torque converter for the lowest speed with fluid couplings for higher speeds. It's difficult to entirely fault Rivet for following Dovetail's example in this respect, but Dovetail needs to do better - starting with seeking advice from knowledgeable members of the community, if their own research isn't sufficient.

    Dovetail's 101 is better in its steady-state behaviour, mainly due to early feedback on its first release, but still not quite right in its dynamic behaviour. The DMMU transmission correctly shows the several mechanical gear ratios, the mechanical freewheel and fluid coupling combination, and the engine control by torque rather than speed, but the way the diesel engine's speed changes when the throttle is closed and re-opened (as you must do for every gear change) is very weird, and throttle notch 1 is practically useless when it should be a "fast idle", balancing a low torque output against the engine's natural resistance to turning (due to "pumping losses").

    Skyhook's 158 is a vast improvement, exhibiting a close approximation to the characteristics I described above. This makes it pleasant and intuitive to drive, without any nasty surprises that I've noticed so far, and with performance characteristics that plausibly match the timetable. From my point of view, this makes it one of the best features of the original MML release. I'm definitely looking forward to the rest of the route being brought up to this standard.
     
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  36. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Its like when Luke met Obi-Wan: "You fought in the clone war ?"

    I would say : "You worked with Richard Garriot (Ultima !!!)? and Peter Molyneux (Populous !!!)?

    Guys, take my money, it will deliver !
     
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  37. yellowpanda#3079

    yellowpanda#3079 New Member

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    I assume the PIS boards are still work in progress as I have noticed a southbound train to St Pancras has displayed previous calling points such as Chesterfield, Long Eaton etc. Great work so far!
     
  38. redlichtie#1320

    redlichtie#1320 Member

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    Nice.

    One observation on the freight services from a Leicester point of view from what I recall. (As your pic looks like platform 1 at Leicester) Majority of freight runs usually go along the outer loop on the far side near platform 4 both north and south. Some do go north through platform 2 and maybe the odd northbound through platform 1. Just an observation to make you aware so you can nail it.

    Also noticed the other day, when catching the train from Leicester, there is a new shed structure being erected on the Leicester depot site. Whether it's something you guys want to look into for accuracy purposes for a future update.

    Thank for impending improvements.
     
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  39. jane-skyhook

    jane-skyhook Well-Known Member

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    That is very kind of you, yes I worked for some years with Richard. We jointly did a ton of stuff together at EA.

    I never actually worked with Peter Molyneux. I joined to help look after the studio about a year after Peter left. I am credited on Populous 3 and other Bullfrog titles yes :)

    I have always had it on my bucket list though to do some TSW projects as a fan of trains and trainsim. I am thoroughly enjoying the project and getting to know so many of you here.


    molyneux.jpg
     
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  40. jane-skyhook

    jane-skyhook Well-Known Member

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    heya, that is correct yes. We haven't got the code updates merged in to the current active build yet. Getting there though :)
     
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  41. jane-skyhook

    jane-skyhook Well-Known Member

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    This is great info for the team, thank you for taking the time to share. I will pass it on. With the shed, please remember though that the route is not current, but set some years ago. Its useful to know though as we develop the route. Thank you again, I do appreciate this.

    Jane
     
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  42. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I picked up Midland Mainline late last week and I've had a lot of fun in the Class 158 so far (not got up to the HST journey chapters).

    Apologies if some of this is repeated above however I have found the scenarios (4/7 completed) so far a little lacklustre if Im honest and felt that "The Night Train" & "Sno' Trouble at All" especially finished before they really started and should have been longer with a bit more to them. Obviously nothing really can be done about them, but moving forward can we have a little bit more challenges and longer durations please?

    Also on the "The Night Train" I think some of the speed limits in the yard are wrong as the HUD was displaying a 90mph limit multiple times within the confines of the yard.
     
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  43. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    That bottom image of the TSW3 EMT HST shows how superb TSW3 can be in realistic lighting and reflections. It's one of the reasons I love the MML HST.
     
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  44. redlichtie#1320

    redlichtie#1320 Member

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    My bad about the shed, forgot it's set from a different era. :)
     
  45. taybarker20

    taybarker20 Active Member

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    Those tanks being pulled by the 66 what layer does that require for the tanker wagons
     
  46. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Tvl with 31 dlc i believe
     
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  47. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    IMG_0801.jpeg
     
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  48. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Very cool. What's the source if i may ask? Is there an article up i missed?
     
  49. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Very curious about what end of this line skyhook will do a joined up route extension for.. I have a gut feeling theyre going to arrive at that platform first
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2023
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  50. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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