...is it because the idea isn't good enough, or is it needing more work? Introduction: Hello all, TrainGeek08 here again, today I'm discussing Livery Designer 2.0, a feature that was on the Roadmap a while back and was removed and hasn't come back since, so I'm going to discuss what features it should have in itself TLDR (too long, didn't read summary): We discuss the following points in some detail and why this should be added to LD 2.0 Layer Limit More real-world logos More letter/number fonts Layer Grouping/Saving Let's get into it then... Layer Limit: This one is a good one to start with, the current limit in Livery Designer is 300 (unless you are on PC there is a mod that ups it to about 50,000 or something like that) but obviously console players don't have that luxury, some liveries seen in the real world may take more than 300 layers in game to make, so I suggest it to be increased to at least 500 to cater those that like to put the little details in and love to make real-world liveries and that aren't constrained to a lower limit, even if it is a Gen 9 thing and Gen 8 stays at 300 for stability purposes until it becomes unsupported with the TSW franchise, it means Gen 9 players have that ability to make great liveries and for Gen 8 players, it's the console letting them down a bit in terms of their age and memory but it is how it is I'm afraid More real-world logos: We have some real-world logos in LD already like Avanti West Coast, Southern, Thameslink etc. so why can't we have more, if they have given a license to be in your game, surely it should be able to appear in LD, unless the company in question, let's say DB for example, says "no" to that, well that's a different story but any TOCs/FOCs that agree to that, could have access to the game, and logos will come up again in the 'Layer Grouping/Saving' section later on, I can think of many TOCs that are represented in game that their logos would be in LD (again for PC players, trainsim.cz has made a logo pack with a variety of logos in game already) but again, like 'Layer Limit' above, we need to think about the players on console here as well , so please add more real-world logos into LD 2.0 will you? More letter/number fonts: The range of letter/number fonts in game currently is a bit sparce unless you get some Mastery rewards that grant you more fonts, but there are lots of fonts used on the railway that aren't in game however, and that needs to change, so for LD 2.0, I'd have more fonts offered instead of just one (minus Mastery rewards) and include some ones featured on the railway if possible please Layer Grouping/Saving: Layer Grouping/Saving, you may wonder... what does that mean? Well you have layer grouping currently in game right? How about expanding on that idea and implementing a save option similar to Forza with the potential to share it onto the community via Creator's Club, I'm sure it has been discussed here on the forums and on the livestreams as well plenty of times but it would be a great idea in game as it would make it easier for players that don't want to make big logos like Norfolk Southern or Virgin, so people can make those logos, post them to Creator's Club, then they get downloaded like a livery or scenario would be currently and you'll now be able to use it, so in the UI in LD, it will come up with Shape, Text, Logo, Image and then Layer Groups, then you will find the layer groups either you have made or you have subscribed to on Creator's Club Conclusion: I feel this is a good topic to talk about and this totally warrants a discussion IMO, so be sure to start a discussion below regarding this thread so DTG can see that you care about a potential revival of Livery Designer 2.0, hope you have enjoyed reading this one, I've been TrainGeek08 as usual, and I'll see you for the next suggestion or CC mod release announcement, until next time, it's goodbye from me
Ooo, the idea of sharing grouped layers is a good one, well thought on that aspect! But even though that probably would never happen, especially due to licensing issues (probably), it would already help if you could save groupings and then let them appear under the sticker section we have in the game right now. That would allow for an easier time making liveries, especially when you’re suddenly deciding to paint every DB rolling stock in Deutsche Bundesbahn liveries . I don’t know whether this now fits, but I think that something like an consist designer would also be needed. Because when a consist is put together, you could just paint the whole consist, which would make creating a stripe, which is on the same level throughout the whole consist, way easier
Yeah, licensing will always be an issue but I'm sure DTG will find a way to implement some new logos in LD 2.0 but if not, that's alright as well Glad you like the idea of layer grouping as it would make loads of players' lives easier as all you need to do is download a layer group off CC and put it on your train A consist editor would be great I feel for the game but I'm not sure if that's more accustomed to fit in Livery Designer in terms of making a liveried consist or in Scenario Planner in terms of actually making a consist work in game but overall, it's a good idea
Many moons back then, in my flight simulator days I did lots of repaints (mainly for Project Tupolev) and I remember quite vividly: The wrong font -shape/size/color was a complete and decisive showstopper. A big nono. If the font wasn´t available, you´d just make it in Photoshop or CorelDraw. At least for the required letter / number combination. I see many marvelous train liveries in CC. Yet, the wrong fonts flush them down. It can´t be that difficult for DTG to include more fonts in their - well, I give you that - pretty rudimentary livery editor. Thousands of them are even free.
Yep, totally agree, there are loads of fonts out there but DTG only choose one of them unless you get a couple of extra ones thanks to Mastery rewards
While OP has made some great suggestions, I really think the biggest need is a normal user interface. For some reason they decided to reinvent the wheel for image editing when Photoshop-style controls have been the industry standard for decades. Just let me draw a shape, use a mouse to select things, enter text with the keyboard, and otherwise provide a normal graphics program experience.
Oh yes, that is another but different factor that needs improving and Rudolf has been making some threads on that topic too I believe
Still, the ability to save layer groups just for oneself would be huge. Just the time saved in remaking the same logo for multiple pieces of rolling stock would be well worth it. (How many CSXs have I made by now?)
You have to think about those players that want that idea to become a thing though, but you have a valid point however that some players do like repeating logos on different locos in game like your CSXs or Norfolk Southerns or Conrails but some players might want as close to accurate logos as possible, especially console players as they don't have access to mods like the PC players do to make liveries as realistic as possible, could be a potential workaround until DTG provide us with more logos, if any
Saving layer groups is such a good idea. Especially when you want to make the same logo/group on different vehicles. Nothing burns me out faster than having to remake work I've already spent too much time on.
Designing for console obviously calls for some compromise. But it’s not something that has to be invented from whole cloth. Consoles have virtual keyboards, they have plenty of buttons to click and drag with, and there are UX patterns they could have followed. Instead they invented a new thing that has a steep learning curve, nonstandard controls, and is lacking in some basic table-stakes features.
Extra fonts as reward? How original ... https://fontesk.com/license/free-for-commercial-use/ https://www.1001fonts.com/free-for-commercial-use-fonts.html
Look at London Commuter's and West Somerset's Mastery rewards, I'm not wrong but yeah, they need to add more fonts in
This is literally what happens. Licensing deals made before the advent of the Creators Club didn't include the logos in Livery Designer discussion (duh), and if a TOC's logo isn't there - it means they don't want it there. DTG can try and poke them into allowing it now and again, but it's quite simply, if it's not there, they said no. There's nothing more to ask for.
Yes, it's that simple but at the end of the day it is a TOC's decision whether their logo appears in game
So, why just repeat it, with a "but" - which suggests that you're going to add something - and add nothing?
You're both completely wrong. The only entity that will allow a TOC logo to be allowed in the game is the TOC itself
DTG is acitvly blocking players creativitiy, so my guess is the delay of scenario planner 2.0s is rather about a business decision, than a technical. There is just too much proof of that, also with every route the available paths are in a PATHETIC low amount. Why not give the players more sidings and more paths (for static stock / more traffic), thats something they could do very easy. The answer is written at the begin of this post. Its so fning obvious. (looking at the peak forest scenario planner possibilities, you cant use any of the yards basicly, just drive from platform to platform) Very interestig thread, but in the end 100% redunand.
Absolutely! If we can't have a timetable editor then at least give us plenty of paths and variety, if we can't have plenty of paths and variety then GIVE US A TIMETABLE EDITOR!
Just to add something I’ve been really wanting, on top of the colour spectrum we have already - some standard colours like BR Blue/Green, Warning Yellow, Buffer Beam Red/Vermillion, and, I’m guessing others would be license permitting, but TOC/FOC livery colours as well. It would save us from going to google and convert colour codes to HSV values, which aren’t always totally reliable from past experience. It would make a big difference having liveries that actually looked right as opposed to getting a rough match and going “Meh, it’ll do.”
DTG Matt Sorry to bother, but it seems we are a bit confused as to why this hasn't been mentioned for a hot minute.
Oh that one is a GREAT idea!!! This would allow the playerbase to create the rolling stock perfectly in different colours. Another thing which could improve the experience is to make a dirty and a clean paintable verson of the train. So far we mostly only got clean versions of the train to repaint, but that can look a bit unreal with some liveries. But with the pre done dirt, it is even easier to achieve real life like liveries
Simple really - there's no update to give i'm afraid. Still something we want to do, tons of ideas, but nothing to give an update on at this point. Matt.
Great idea. I would also like a way to "paint" the stainless steel American cars like the Amfleet with the proper metallic treatment. For some reason they decided to remove this in the livery designer version so it's impossible to make them look right.
Loving the discussion folks, keep it up, love some of the ideas developed over the weekend in my absence
Absolutely, maybe even a tick box or slider for applying weathering to something so you aren’t having to mess around with shapes and layers. My main thinking would be being able to, for example, paint a HST in MML Blue/silver and having access to the correct colours for the warning panel at the front and the livery itself. Of course with the license for the route, an added bonus would be having the EMT branding so you could have something like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/newspectrum/6818467957/
I would love it if we got a livery designer train list so only contains passenger and freight locomotive and passenger coaches and freight cars would only be available via a drop down menu after clicking on any locomotive so it can be easier to scroll down and up in the train list. I would also love it if players to have an option to have livery templates so players don't have to make a new library from scratch or if they wish to do so from scratch. Would also love a measuring tool to tell the measurements of the height and width of shape layers and also a shape tool to draw out shapes on the body of the locomotive and also have customizeable interiors.
